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Noel
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) ......But if u werent raised on them you wont miss it or understand it I guess. It will just be how fast it goes. A new breed of rider u could say. I dont think tinkering w/the engine will be the same.
Exactly the demographic they might entice are gen-x and millennials who are into hacking and cracking code, once they reach financial maturity, they'll buy and be inside th bikes power control module(s) tweaking out the limiters to get more power to the ground :D
 

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All good points for sure if you still think there's no shortage of safe to access oil, if you think your kids health doesn't matter,if you support corrupt regimes,if your happy paying double what fuel should be,if you went to sleep in science class,if you just want to scrape through with your life and die happy that you helped wreck the planet for everyone following.
This ponzi scheme we call an economy is trying to stay afloat by manipulating the oil price higher,everything else is in a bubble. Higher oil prices are good for the banks and delay the insolvency they are hidden under.When it carks it a whole new set of circumstances will emerge and when it does this discussion will be null and void.
Supporting fossil fuels is playing into the hands of the 1% that control our slavish existance why the hell you would want to be part of that is beyond me.Maybe it means you don't have to think and can shut out reality.
In case you hadn't noticed there's not many 20 year olds here.They must hate us and isn't that what HD are trying to address with the electrification of the fleet.If you want to alienate the kids further hang onto your self indulgent attitudes and may a Livewire spank your ass into oblivion.
 

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" once they reach financial maturity, they'll buy and be inside the bikes power control module(s) tweaking out the limiters to get more power to the ground "

They probably will Noel, then they'll figure out what " Neck Snapping Torque " really is ! I'm sure they could pull a start as fast as your Destroyer, maybe faster with correct traction. That;s the issue - traction. Having kicked out the rear tire sideways on my R Model with my new fast turn throttle tube I can only imagine the traction breaking instant torque on an unprotected Electric M/C when the control module's been tweaked. It will be referred to as the " On your A$$ Mode " or " Armature Snap Mode ". Oh - Hello there Mr H-D dealer can you help me pick the road gravel out of my bloody butt cheeks, arms & elbow and give me warranty on that destroyed electrical motor ? Don't know what happened ! Hey you guys got Wi-Fi ? I'll catch up with my E Bike buddies on E Bikes.com while you put a new warranty electrical motor in my bike. Whatta ya mean it's not covered ?! $ 6800 ? WHAT a ripoff !! ??
 

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Cheap Electric Bikes ! NO Pollution !!

Tassie Tony - So get out there and promote the hundreds of thousands of new Windmills and Solar Farms needed to support a new world full of E vehicles, only when in place can you charge your new Livewire and stand true on your " Save The Planet from Oil " podium, victorious - in the meantime your'e just a fake using fossil fuels & Nukes from a distance to act like they don't pollute because right now almost all Livewires are charged by Fossil fuels, nukes, oil & gas and will be into the foreseeable future. I think it's you who slept thru science class - I mean what you REALLY think is that electricity has no carbon footprint ? Nuclear waste isn't deadly ? You want to make a REAL difference ? Don't ride anything for pleasure. Don't have any kids - you know what the Carbon footprint of a Human is from birth to death ? Promote Global population reduction using attrition - 2 Billion less people and an increasing amount of renewable energy will really help. OH- and don't make me feel bad about riding my gas burning V Rod vs. an electric bike. One of the Jets I maintain flies the owners wife to New York City for just a haircut, and back. Once a month, not to mention all the other flights. Look at China, India burning the rainforests - until you fix these big Carbon Footprint polluters, and there's hundreds of thousands of them - you're just in mental dreamland playing with Coal charged Electric bikes acting like the planet's savior. H-D needs an electric bike for around 10K then " The 20 year old Kids " you are fighting for with electric bikes might actually buy one. Right now they aren't buying, it's the old guys like us so call H-D and tell them you figured out what they need to do to finally kill all their gas burning dinosaurs and get 20 year olds in there buying electric. Harley Davidson will thank you, get right on it and tell you just how smart you really are - Go Forth - Save the Planet !! Cheap electric bikes for EVERYONE !! NO POLLUTION !! :banghead: :blahblah: :D
 

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Tassie Tony - So get out there and promote the hundreds of thousands of new Windmills and Solar Farms needed to support a new world full of E vehicles, only when in place can you charge your new Livewire and stand true on your " Save The Planet from Oil " podium, victorious - in the meantime your'e just a fake using fossil fuels & Nukes from a distance to act like they don't pollute because right now almost all Livewires are charged by Fossil fuels, nukes, oil & gas and will be into the foreseeable future. I think it's you who slept thru science class - I mean what you REALLY think is that electricity has no carbon footprint ? Nuclear waste isn't deadly ? You want to make a REAL difference ? Don't ride anything for pleasure. Don't have any kids - you know what the Carbon footprint of a Human is from birth to death ? Promote Global population reduction using attrition - 2 Billion less people and an increasing amount of renewable energy will really help. OH- and don't make me feel bad about riding my gas burning V Rod vs. an electric bike. One of the Jets I maintain flies the owners wife to New York City for just a haircut, and back. Once a month, not to mention all the other flights. Look at China, India burning the rainforests - until you fix these big Carbon Footprint polluters, and there's hundreds of thousands of them - you're just in mental dreamland playing with Coal charged Electric bikes acting like the planet's savior. H-D needs an electric bike for around 10K then " The 20 year old Kids " you are fighting for with electric bikes might actually buy one. Right now they aren't buying, it's the old guys like us so call H-D and tell them you figured out what they need to do to finally kill all their gas burning dinosaurs and get 20 year olds in there buying electric. Harley Davidson will thank you, get right on it and tell you just how smart you really are - Go Forth - Save the Planet !! Cheap electric bikes for EVERYONE !! NO POLLUTION !! :banghead: :blahblah: :D
Fossil free power here in Tassie now.New interconnector cable to the mainland being planned to transmit clean energy over there as well.
Wind turbines being erected every day,huge pumped hydro expansions in the pipeline.Largest uptake of home solar panels continuing.Local councils installing charge stations.Private companys installing pay to charge stations on remote roads.Coal mine applications being shit canned.Huge backup Tesla battery installations.Open your eyes it's happening all over the planet.There's more to the story than is happening in your small patch.
 

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Discussion Starter #126
Good Discussions

Fossil free power here in Tassie now.New interconnector cable to the mainland being planned to transmit clean energy over there as well.
Wind turbines being erected every day,huge pumped hydro expansions in the pipeline.Largest uptake of home solar panels continuing.Local councils installing charge stations.Private companys installing pay to charge stations on remote roads.Coal mine applications being shit canned.Huge backup Tesla battery installations.Open your eyes it's happening all over the planet.There's more to the story than is happening in your small patch.
Guys I started this topic. I'm glad to see it has produced some good discussions with many interesting points.
I've had many many motorcycles over the years, mostly exclusively H-D's. I'm definitely not against electric bikes. I actually like the looks of the LiveWire but I'm not ready to get one yet, even if it would be in addition to the motorcycles I already have.
I believe there's room for both e-motorcycles and fossil fuel powered.
I have mentioned the following point before but i'm going to note it again here.
About 8-9 years ago I worked in Shanghai, China for about 6 weeks. There are so many motorcycles, scooters and ebikes (bicycles) there they have even divided the streets and highways, partly for cars and trucks, and partly for 2-wheeled vehicles. What I noticed right away was that at least 50% of all the motorcycles, scooters and bicycles are electric powered. How they charge them I don't know. That was 8-9 years ago. I'm assuming the ratio of e-vehicles is even higher now.
I also have a mountain bike. Right now I'm looking at e-mountain bikes and I believe by the spring I'll be zeroed in on one and get it.
This electric trend is not going away.
I'm old enough that I'll be dead before we're all electric but I'd like to experience it all. I hope they get the range issue and prices down for electric motorcycles soon because I'm ready.
 

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Don't feel gas guilty - Ride on !!

Hey Ozzie 21 - I also think Electric bikes are great, and replacing thousands of 2 stroke smoke billowing scooters in the cities with clean electric bikes has got to help hold down the city pollution in a place like China - but most of their electric production comes from burning coal (and they are building hundreds of new coal plants) so they are just moving pollution from the major cities to the air around and downwind from all the coal plants - until they have mostly renewable electrical energy ( Three River Gorges Dam helped ) those electric scooters are mostly coal powered. So this is the issue - folks like Tassie Tony (imagining a Livewire ownership) or actual Electric Car & M/C owners can't claim high environmental ground until their M/C's or cars are charged 100% by renewables - even then it takes petroleum to build & service the windmills, make the plastic for solar panels, M/C body panels, battery cases, creating the aluminum, iron, rubber tires etc. So Yes, it's all moving in the right direction and as Tassie Tony said, some countries are ahead of others, and No, electric is not going away nor should it. What needs to go away is folks claiming these e bikes are " The Answer " to motorcycle pollution - they are NOT and they will NOT be for a long time to come, if ever. Much, Much bigger and so much better environmental improvements can be made by the Global population than getting a guy off a gas burning Harley. Let's work on that, the BIG picture. Like Nas3Car Chuck says - we need to just shut up & ride. At this time if you want an Electric bike buy it, enjoy the Torque, & leave it at that. If you want to ride your gas Harley just do it, don't worry about it and don't let anyone make you feel guilty about it. Be realistic & honest enough to know that neither is any environmentally cleaner than the other. So Ride On ! That's what Freedom is all about, I.M.H.O. :blahblah: :D
 

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Shelby Stanga Rocks
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Tassie Tony - I'm really glad you got the balls as you say to be a "first adopter type" to promote Electric M/C's - someone has to do it -We've rode this horse face down into the dirt thru the years then beat it to death. Here's my simplified take on Electric M/C's - I.M.H.O. of course.

1) No exhaust sound, no passion ! I love to hear an engine roar like a Lion, not whine like a stuck cat. Electric M/C's are actually dangerous without a sound generator. Heard Frank Sinatra Group is working on a soundtrack for it. Can't wait to hear it pass by ! New York, New York ! There is already laws in the works on artificial sound, where what you build must sound like what it is. You cant build a Semi and have it sound like a civic. Though
a F1 sounding civic might get your attention better.

2) Range Anxiety issues preclude really spanking it unless you have a charging station destination dialed in on your phone. Or ride a real short radius. Or have a trailer standing by, and a friend to bring it. Freedom does not require an extension cord. What every Sporty guy has dlet with for yearsl LOL

3) Eventual Battery degradation will require replacement negating whatever fuel cost savings you might have after paying out so much for bike & charger. 3500 miles a year is 100 gallons of gas, $ 285 for a V Rod. Good Luck working out that math to justify it.

4) Ugly as an ass sore. Unlike a V Rod NO ONE will ever say " Great Looking Bike Dude ! " Only chicks less than 18 Y.O. think they're cool - but that's because they never felt a real bike vibrate.Shovelhead 88 inch vibrator and its solid mounted...

5) There is little if any improvement for the environment. Unless it's 100% Solar charged ( Won't happen in my lifetime ) it's charged by Oil, Uranium, Nat Gas, and COAL in my area, so it's still a fossil fuel burner, don't fool yourself - it's just that the pollution is at the Electric generation plant - it might help L.A. to keep pollution outside of the LA basin, so that's it's big contribution to the environment. What happens to those solar panels in 20 years. Some places are dealing with that now.

6) Love the Electric Torque ! that's cool so as I've said many times before MAKE IT A HYBRID - smaller battery, 2 or 3 Cylinder high Rpm 4 stroke Gas engine driving a high Rpm generator so you pour in gas, it charges the battery forever, no range issues, big fun. Ride it across the country. Probably 45K -65K from H-D so I still don't see the value.

7) 40 Years ago in Aircraft Mx school I built an Electric car using a Jet Engine Starter/Generator mounted on the automatic transmission, a set of Four Ni-Cad Batteries then later added a 8 Hp Gas Driven generator under the hood to charge the batteries and be what we call now a Hybrid. So I'm not an electric hater. It Worked GREAT ! 40 Years later I still don't own one but Hybrid is the right direction for the Electric M/C mass market at this time - batteries alone won't cut it for the folks that look to a motorcycle for fun & riding freedom, and not just inner city transportation. :blahblah::D

I am not against something different. I mean for 20 years the Flathead Ford was the king of the street. Then came OHV and in 3 years the Flathead was dead. That shows how much better the OHV was. Now its been near 20 years and the Hybird/ EV car is still struggling. Even the hydrogen powered cars have not been the new thing nor propane. Its hard to replace gas for many reasons, and its not only price.
A little history for some, Gasoline was a byproduct of kerosene and would just be dumped into the waterways. Yes many homes relied on kero for lights and heat. Now I agree that gas has its issues. As we get along in the years we still dont know what is the long term affects of these old batteries. They claim 95% recycle but they also claimed that unleaded was so much safer. Now we find out that the chemicals might be worse than the lead it replaced. I know there are arguments in everything I just said. I am only a redneck who loves leaded race gas, and open headers, high compression v8 pushrod motors.
 

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Shelby Stanga Rocks
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Is that seat for sale?
I have looked on Ebay, craigslist and amazon, It seems that seat is not for sale. Though many black leather thongs are for sale but none say used on VRod.
 

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Hey Ozzie 21 - I also think Electric bikes are great, and replacing thousands of 2 stroke smoke billowing scooters in the cities with clean electric bikes has got to help hold down the city pollution in a place like China - but most of their electric production comes from burning coal (and they are building hundreds of new coal plants) so they are just moving pollution from the major cities to the air around and downwind from all the coal plants - until they have mostly renewable electrical energy ( Three River Gorges Dam helped ) those electric scooters are mostly coal powered. So this is the issue - folks like Tassie Tony (imagining a Livewire ownership) or actual Electric Car & M/C owners can't claim high environmental ground until their M/C's or cars are charged 100% by renewables - even then it takes petroleum to build & service the windmills, make the plastic for solar panels, M/C body panels, battery cases, creating the aluminum, iron, rubber tires etc. So Yes, it's all moving in the right direction and as Tassie Tony said, some countries are ahead of others, and No, electric is not going away nor should it. What needs to go away is folks claiming these e bikes are " The Answer " to motorcycle pollution - they are NOT and they will NOT be for a long time to come, if ever. Much, Much bigger and so much better environmental improvements can be made by the Global population than getting a guy off a gas burning Harley. Let's work on that, the BIG picture. Like Nas3Car Chuck says - we need to just shut up & ride. At this time if you want an Electric bike buy it, enjoy the Torque, & leave it at that. If you want to ride your gas Harley just do it, don't worry about it and don't let anyone make you feel guilty about it. Be realistic & honest enough to know that neither is any environmentally cleaner than the other. So Ride On ! That's what Freedom is all about, I.M.H.O. :blahblah: :D
Ever heard of leading by example rather than passing the buck and being controlled by the state.
Because it suits political parties controlled by central banks to push the must burn oil paradigm you and I have become a puppet of them.
Electrification is a protest vote as much as a necessity and cutting costs by not plunging headlong into the change is a sign of a failing system.Talk is cheap it's actions that count.
If it gets bad enough we will be bombed out of existance by some fruitcake with a button so don't bring up the population thing or you will give them ideas.
This whole being alive thing is an experiment it's not set in stone you can't just say Billy farts more than me so I have automatic carte blanche to let rip at my leisure without making my neighbour gag.
If riding your V Rod seems inconsequential in the big picture how about cutting back on the imported stuff (not that the V Rod isn't loaded with it) you do know burning bunker fuel in ships is the number one pollutant on the planet.
Shooting the messenger has been tried before it's a guilty plea in disguise.
Walk free.
 

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Your Coal Fume Farts Really Stink ! I'll take Gas Fume Farts.

Tassie Tony - Yes, you're right again - I do lead by example - I personally believe a gasoline powered V Rod is cleaner than a 45 Mile to 100 mile away Coal or Oil fired Electric Plant that charges an Electric M/C or Car - Please Prove I'm wrong - gasoline unlike coal, some oil does not spew Mercury out when you burn it. I believe it's the charging of Electrical Scooters, Cars in China that predicates the need for 10% of the new Coal Fired plants. So your solution is at this time a greater problem, you're making me gag. One day (once again) when renewable energy is the norm, not the exception we can talk again. I have cut back on the Imported stuff. Never was a Big Red China Tool or anything else buyer. Never thought we should have opened up that market, our greedy politicians screwed us and created a Chinese monster that kills their own people, pollutes at will. Stupid. The U.S. has slapped Tariffs on their A$$ so yes, fewer bunker oil burning container ships coming this way. Factories and Production returning to a much cleaner EPA controlled U.S. environment. You will never accept any of this. Your skull is full of styrofoam, not brains and we have discussed this many times, ad nauseum. You believe what you believe, but so do I - SO - Shooting the messenger is not an issue - proving you're correct is the issue. This is the difference in our brains, and our politics. Right now Electric Vehicles may cost less to charge than to fill up a 5 gallon V Rod gas tank ( Your Cheap so you like that ) but in no way does that equate to them being in any way environmentally cleaner overall. Follow the entire process from oil/coal/gas /nuke cradle to grave citing efficiencies (or lack there of ) and total pollution, type created and prove me wrong. I am free - no extension cords are required for me to enjoy my motorcycle, and I don't have to walk free like you suggest since I have no range restrictions where my battery might die and make me walk - Hell, that's why I'll just ride off as free as a bird - and go wherever I wanna go, as far as I want, and come back whenever I want, not having to wait for a far distant fossil fuel powered plant to recharge my bike, because it's not electric, like the one you don't even own ! :moped: :blahblah: :D
 

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Discussion Starter #132
Thong

I have looked on Ebay, craigslist and amazon, It seems that seat is not for sale. Though many black leather thongs are for sale but none say used on VRod.
Yeah that'll work. If i can't get the seat (won't fit any of my bikes anyway) maybe I can get the thong she was wearing when she was sitting on the bike.......lol
 

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Tassie Tony - Yes, you're right again - I do lead by example - I personally believe a gasoline powered V Rod is cleaner than a 45 Mile to 100 mile away Coal or Oil fired Electric Plant that charges an Electric M/C or Car - Please Prove I'm wrong - gasoline unlike coal, some oil does not spew Mercury out when you burn it. I believe it's the charging of Electrical Scooters, Cars in China that predicates the need for 10% of the new Coal Fired plants. So your solution is at this time a greater problem, you're making me gag. One day (once again) when renewable energy is the norm, not the exception we can talk again. I have cut back on the Imported stuff. Never was a Big Red China Tool or anything else buyer. Never thought we should have opened up that market, our greedy politicians screwed us and created a Chinese monster that kills their own people, pollutes at will. Stupid. The U.S. has slapped Tariffs on their A$$ so yes, fewer bunker oil burning container ships coming this way. Factories and Production returning to a much cleaner EPA controlled U.S. environment. You will never accept any of this. Your skull is full of styrofoam, not brains and we have discussed this many times, ad nauseum. You believe what you believe, but so do I - SO - Shooting the messenger is not an issue - proving you're correct is the issue. This is the difference in our brains, and our politics. Right now Electric Vehicles may cost less to charge than to fill up a 5 gallon V Rod gas tank ( Your Cheap so you like that ) but in no way does that equate to them being in any way environmentally cleaner overall. Follow the entire process from oil/coal/gas /nuke cradle to grave citing efficiencies (or lack there of ) and total pollution, type created and prove me wrong. I am free - no extension cords are required for me to enjoy my motorcycle, and I don't have to walk free like you suggest since I have no range restrictions where my battery might die and make me walk - Hell, that's why I'll just ride off as free as a bird - and go wherever I wanna go, as far as I want, and come back whenever I want, not having to wait for a far distant fossil fuel powered plant to recharge my bike, because it's not electric, like the one you don't even own ! :moped: :blahblah: :D
I hope you don't think China is paying the tariffs.US consumer coughs up. That's the puppet master at work again.



All the numbers you need to blow your Punch and Judy fantasy out of the water.By the way any country that wants cheap clean natural gas delivered by ships powered with same call Australia we can eliminate your coal problems overnight (if your not under the spell of petro dollar addicted reserve banks).
http://www.lightsonsolar.com/emissions-and-efficiency-in-electric-cars-versus-gasoline-cars/

Livewires delivered in Tassie some time in 2020 numb nuts. Do your homework before swinging punches if your jaw isn't glass.:deal::bash:
 

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"Grab your ankles"
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I hope you don't think China is paying the tariffs.US consumer coughs up. That's the puppet master at work again.



All the numbers you need to blow your Punch and Judy fantasy out of the water.By the way any country that wants cheap clean natural gas delivered by ships powered with same call Australia we can eliminate your coal problems overnight (if your not under the spell of petro dollar addicted reserve banks).
http://www.lightsonsolar.com/emissions-and-efficiency-in-electric-cars-versus-gasoline-cars/

Livewires delivered in Tassie some time in 2020 numb nuts. Do your homework before swinging punches if your jaw isn't glass.:deal::bash:
Hey Tassie. I just wanted to know what other sites you choose to troll. I'd love to read more of your thoughts. You're truly cracking me up. Every post you make gets funnier and funnier.

Keep up the good work! :laugh:
 

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Shelby Stanga Rocks
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Hey Tassie. I just wanted to know what other sites you choose to troll. I'd love to read more of your thoughts. You're truly cracking me up. Every post you make gets funnier and funnier.

Keep up the good work! :laugh:
:them:
 

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Hey Tassie. I just wanted to know what other sites you choose to troll. I'd love to read more of your thoughts. You're truly cracking me up. Every post you make gets funnier and funnier.

Keep up the good work! :laugh:
Sure just head over to Vibrating Twins forum. Chuck's in charge over there and I do follow up work.
 

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Shelby Stanga Rocks
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Sure just head over to Vibrating Twins forum. Chuck's in charge over there and I do follow up work.




and Tassie even has his own sticky...
 

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Cali B/S & turnabout glass jaws -

Once again Chuck saves the day with some really useful, enjoyable "Vibrating Twins" observations. That's where it's at !

" Livewires delivered in Tassie some time in 2020 numb nuts. Do your homework before swinging punches if your jaw isn't glass." Tassie Tony -

Great article Tassie I knew if I pushed you you'd divulge where you get that crazy Liberal crap in your head. That entire article is, as they say " California Centric " Did you notice that 39% of US electric comes from coal ? All the info in the article is based around Cali's electric model, which get almost all it's natural gas from the rest of the US, Canada & our fracking, which ain't the poster child for environmental cleanliness. Even at that Nat gas is still 75 % of Gasoline CO2 output. There is NO discussion of COAL fired plants, which is still the majority source of electricity across the Globe. So what's the point of the article ? If we were like Cali we could import nat gas from other regions and claim victory on pollution, since it's all over there ? Speaking of the military cost of protecting foreign oil fields ever heard of Lithium ? Like for batteries ? Where's the majority of it ? Afghanistan. Yea, I know Australia too - please send US more Lithium to save our troops. Please get your glass jaw reset it looks kinda crooked. I had the best mileage I ever got this past weekend with cool temps and long steady riding about 36-38 MPG on the R Model. Got 100 miles to 1/2 tank plus we bought a new M-B dual scroll turbo car a couple months ago gets about the same on the highway with the same 2 people in it but it's 15 Mpg better than our old car. SO - Do I get say 300 Miles a month of guilt free V Rod riding now since I cleaned up our car efficiency ? Or do I still have to follow the model of the REST of the planet and buy an Electric M/C charged by Coal, not even natural gas. YOU are the Sage, the Savant. Please advise. :blahblah: :D
 

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I think it's pretty much universally agreed that burning fossils is a no no for the environment.Why else would you argue that gas is 25% cleaner than coal.That anyone would side with the oil cartels is an outright admission of greed in my mind.
Whatever it takes to bring down multinationals and power crazed governments is fine by me.
Was a time when riding a bike was considered antisocial and an expression of freedom, those days are over.Nanny state over regulated and taxed to oblivion bs is the norm now.If I can regain some of that freedom by not being dictated to by the system by riding a Livewire I'm in.See how it's gone the full circle. HD still get it. Most have been dumbed down and are beyond saving by not moving with the times and they will still cater to them but increasingly less.
If all your worried about is cost per mile, walk,thats a weak argument unless your a climate denier.Most deniers I come across are so because they can shut off their conscience.That they are siding with the lets kill for oil mob reinforces their value system developed in the cave era.
Anyhow did you see where Iran have discovered another mega oil field,like 2 million barrels a day for the next 80 years.Lets see you cave men head over there and take it without the big banger going off.Doesn't all lean your way now does it...……..now where did I put that solar panel.:deal:
 
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