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Geezer
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Discussion Starter #1
There have been several comments about a front end klunk on bumps. My mechanic at the "crash shop" just called to say that when he was done with a test ride, I could expect a call to get the bike back. I mentioned the front end klunk many (including me) have seen. He called back and told me that it was indeed there, but the factory advised resetting the top end torque up to 95 lbs, from the factory 45lbs, which he did, and the klunk is now gone!!:notworthy
I expect to pick up the bike tomorrow!!!!!!
 

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Color me Gone
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27,333 Posts
Daniii I found the same thing I did not go to 95 ft lbs but did tighten mine and the noise went away. I mitght put a torque wrench on it just to see how tight I am now but probably around 55-65ft lbs.

Max
 

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what bolt are we talking boyz?? the steering stem...lemme get this staight the HD factory says to tightem to 95 ft lbs from 45??
 

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Color me Gone
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27,333 Posts
Here is the nut in question.
 

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Had this happen to me racing a ducati. I was at the max lean angle in a left hand corner, hit a bump, and Bam.... for a split second I thought that was it....Pulled over and inspected everything and found nothing .The guy on the ducati,behind me, said he heard the knock. With a jarring like that I could have sworn that something had to have broken.
Derek
 

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SNAFU
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I'm trying to understand the relationship between the top nut, # 2 and the fall off adjustment nut, #6?

There's a quite elaborate description of how the set the tension on the bearings using #6, it's called "Setting the Fall Off". It looks like #6 is used to load (or preload) the bearings and all #2 is going to do is clamp down on #6 and have no effect on the pressure against the bearings. That can't be true or tightening #2 will have no effect on the "clunk".

Does tightening #2 change the fall off? Does the design of #6 allow pressure to be passed through it onto the bearing washer? Would someone care to explain how this system works?
 

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Color me Gone
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mjw930 the book calls for the #6 nut to be hand tightened and then 45-55ft lbs of torque on the #2 nut. The way I did mine was to loosen #2 and then retighten #6 but I did it until it was good and hand tight (Jeannie says I have vise grip hands). And then I re-tightened #2.

Max
 

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SNAFU
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Now, if you performed the fall off test and it passed then you've taken a page in the manual and changed it to 2 lines. :cool:

So, #6 doesn't require a tool to move, good to know. It seems that it works as a preload on the bearings and #2 actually exerts the force. Still trying to figure out how the 2 work together.
 

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Color me Gone
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Your correct that 6 is the preload on the brgs. When I did mine I knew the rattle was from the steering head but I was unsure which was loose or off so I re-adjusted both. If you get #6 to tight you will feel binding in the steering. I would not suggest anything more then good and hand tight. The #2 nut captures the entire shaft and holds pressure on it for the upper triple tree.


Max
 

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Geezer
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13,343 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The mechanic said something about (over) tigheting #2 causing some compression/distortion of the top triple tree which stops some movement of the downtubes, and eliminates the 'klunk. In any case, it seems to work!
 

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Live Free or Die
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Does anyone have an '04 V-Rod service Manual and can scan in that Fall-Away page. I hear that the #2 triple tree bolt's torque spec was changed from 45 to 95.

My conversation with my dealer's top mechanic doesn't give me a confident feeling that they care about V-Rods. I have the klunk and the rod is going in for it's 1000 mile service on Friday. Just thought that having the '04 page might be a wise card to play (just in case). Mine is easy to feel by rolling forward and squeezing the brake, so I will be able to check their work before picking it up.
 

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Try uping your fork oil to the Sceaming Eagle Racing fork oil.I think it's 15w.That and tighten the heck out what ever they said!:biker:
 

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SNAFU
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Orest,

I popped off the cover and tightened the #2 bolt from the picture about 1/8 turn, felt like about 60 - 70 ft-lbs but since I don't have a 1 1/2 socket I couldn't hook it up to my torque wrench. It got rid of the clunk and kept the proper fall away adjustment.

Mark
 

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Geezer
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Discussion Starter #15
There you go!
 

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is there indeed a factory reset to 95 foot lbs on that stem bolt????....I just replace the triple tree and trying to get ther fall away just right...a real pain...anyone have a good theory on this...one side seems to be a bit tighter than the other ...

any updates in the 2004 manual on this whole fall away crap... Max?? Danii??:confused:
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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Softails have the same clunk problem... and the same fix... torque the piss out of the stem nut (#2)
 

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Yeah, but what if...
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I gathered up posts from this thread, cut and pasted them into an email to my dealer (in the process breaching flagrantly the copyright in all such posts and also misleadingly giving the impression I know far more about this stuff than I really do - a misdirection I deemed necessary in order to get a serious response.)

I have set out the response below. To those of you who unknowingly collabarated in making me look much more mechanically adept and experienced, I thank you.

"By the way, re the rear foot pegs, I never said to straighten them in a vice, I said to twist them a little so they grip more when re-inserted."

"From: Gary Dick [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:23 AM
To: Karl Scott
Cc: SvceBNE
Subject: Front End Klunk - Attention Julian
Sensitivity: Confidential



Karl,

We do have a procedure for adjusting the steering head bearings and it does involve using a higher torque figure than suggested in the manual (45–55 ft-lbs) being applied to the upper fork stem nut (# 2 on your diagram). However, if an excessive amount of torque is applied to that nut without paying very close attention to the setting of the “fall away” adjusting nut (# 6 on your diagram), your “fall away” measurement will be incorrect and that can result in either a weave or wobble from the front end. An incorrectly set “fall away” measurement can also result in premature wear of the steering head bearings themselves. The reason we use a higher torque figure on the upper fork stem nut is in an effort to help over-come the fork “clunk” that you sometimes hear from different model H-D front ends. This “clunk” is caused through a very small amount of movement between the “fall away” adjusting nut (# 6 on your diagram) and the under side of the upper triple clamp (# 4 on your diagram). By applying more torque to the upper fork stem nut (# 2 on your diagram), it reduces the likelihood of movement and therefore the “clunk” diminishes. The adjustment of the steering head bearings on your motorcycle will have been checked during the course of routine maintenance / service procedures. The bearings etc do settle in over a period of time and the steering head bearings do require closer attention during the early stages of their life. There is another “clunk” that can sometimes be heard from the front end of some H-D models and that is from the internals of the front forks themselves. In the majority of cases, using a slightly heavier grade of fork oil helps reduce that “clunk”; however, this in turn can make the “clunk” from the steering head area a little more noticeable. In cases like that it can take a little extra fine tuning to try and find the happy medium between the two. As far as loose foot pegs go, we sometimes turn the spring plate around (as we have with yours) and then just tighten them. I can’t see that flattening the spring plates would help at all. It could be that they have settled in now and are in need of being tightened again. Other than that, it’s not something we are seeing on a regular basis. I hope this has been of some assistance to you.

Regards,

Gary Dick.

Service Manager.

Morgan & Wacker P/L.

[email protected]



-----Original Message-----
From: SvceBNE
Sent: Wednesday, 14 January 2004 4:36 PM
To: Gary Dick
Subject: FW: Front End Klunk - Attention Julian
Sensitivity: Confidential



Gary, can you have a look at this one please. He has also asked about the rear foot pegs being very loose and that he saw something on the net about turning the spring washers around after straightening them in a vice.





Julian Richards
Service Advisor.

-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Scott [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 January 2004 4:32 PM
To: SvceBNE
Subject: Front End Klunk - Attention Julian
Sensitivity: Confidential

Hi mate,



I know we talked about it and you said you check the torque on the nut in the attached picture every service. Seems a lot of us have an issue here though so thought I would drop you a line anyway. The scuttle but on this bolt and the klunk is that the klunk can be erased by torquing nut number 2 (see attached diagram.) - apparently the factory preset is 95 ft pounds? Seems pretty high, so maybe the preset isn't getting done at the factory?



A summary (including some cut and paste) of what I don't get and of what I have found follows.

I'm trying to understand the relationship between the top nut, # 2 and the fall off adjustment nut, #6. First time I ever heard of fall off in that context :)

There's a quite elaborate description of how to set the tension on the bearings using #6, it's called "Setting the Fall Off". It looks like #6 is used to load (or preload) the bearings and all #2 is going to do is clamp down on #6 and have no effect on the pressure against the bearings. That can't be true or tightening #2 will have no effect on the "clunk", right? The book calls for the #6 nut to be hand tightened and then 45-55ft lbs of torque on the #2 nut.

Does tightening #2 change the fall off? Does the design of #6 allow pressure to be passed through it onto the bearing washer?

Has anyone checked the fall off on my bike to factory spec? (I assume so).

I imagine that if you get #6 too tight you will feel binding in the steering and bugger the recommended fall off. It seems the #2 nut captures the entire shaft and holds pressure on it for the upper triple tree.

I think the 04 spec might have changed too from what I have seen - as in the recomendations are different in the manual for 04 to 03?

One guy in tha States (who seems to know his shit) has said "I popped off the cover and tightened the #2 bolt from the picture about 1/8 turn, felt like about 60 - 70 ft-lbs but since I don't have a 1 1/2 socket I couldn't hook it up to my torque wrench. It got rid of the clunk and kept the proper fall away adjustment." Or as another guy has said "torque the piss out of the stem nut (#2)"

I'll leave it with you. Thanks Julian.

Karl "

So what do we reckon about the answer?
 

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Your a Good Bull Shiter!;)
 
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