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What did you use to cut the tray? I've read people used a Dremel but do you use a small cut off wheel or a spiral cutting bit. How about an ossilating saw? Hand held fine hacksaw blade? Just trying to determine what technique works the best. Thanks.
 

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What did you use to cut the tray? I've read people used a Dremel but do you use a small cut off wheel or a spiral cutting bit. How about an ossilating saw? Hand held fine hacksaw blade? Just trying to determine what technique works the best. Thanks.
I cut most off with the small vertical band saw I have and ground it back with an angle grinder and blending disc. Finish with hand sanding. Dremel too small but it will eventually do the job. Zip cut on an angle grinder should work also. A small hand held coping saw will do the job too. Plan carefully and leave some for cleanup with belt sander and finally hand sand the edges with 120 girt or so. While I located the IAT at the lower part, (personal choice) you can also install it in the filter cover lid at the side of the lid.. Did mine back in 05 and have seen several since that. Best mod I've made. Hated that damn box and all the clutter.
Ron
 

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roughed mine out with jig saw and finished it on the belt sander. Doesn't take much to cut it. As Ron said, plan first, leave some extra to sand after. I install my sensor in similar spot near bottom of tray.
 

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roughed mine out with jig saw and finished it on the belt sander. Doesn't take much to cut it. As Ron said, plan first, leave some extra to sand after. I install my sensor in similar spot near bottom of tray.
If you are like me, you laugh every time you read about someone bitching on how hard it is to change a battery now?
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mike, I wont speak for the others but as for myself I've been reading other posts and they cite:

A little performance gain (opinions vary)
Ease of access for anything at the top of the heads
Ease of access for the battery
More room in general to run hoses / wiring
The look of it

I'll add "COVID boredom" to that list as well.

I hope to post pictures for the mod and also looking to do external breather at the same time.

Hope the above helps
 

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Mike, I wont speak for the others but as for myself I've been reading other posts and they cite:

A little performance gain (opinions vary)
Ease of access for anything at the top of the heads
Ease of access for the battery
More room in general to run hoses / wiring
The look of it

I'll add "COVID boredom" to that list as well.

I hope to post pictures for the mod and also looking to do external breather at the same time.

Hope the above helps
Thanks Joe
 

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Thanks Joe
For me, it also got rid of jamming the throttle cables into the lower box and the filter lid from jamming into the stock air box lid. I hated how all of these parts were jammed in there and pushing against themselves. All the stuff in there has room to play now. I never expected any hp gains. That's wishful thinking although it's a claim made over and over. I don't buy it. Not sure but it might be a bit quieter this way then leaving the full bottom intact and just going topless as it removes some of that megaphone effect. Frankly, I don't even notice the induction sound any more unless I really lay into the throttle. I like it. Reminds me of my old 4 barrel carb days.
Ron
 

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I think I'm going to give this bottom tray mod a go.
I had my vrod dyno'd topless so this makes sense to get rid of the unsightly tray and free up some room. Besides, I need another Covid/semi-retirement project.....
 

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I see no reason to let hot air rise into the intake - totally counter-intuitive and a bit noisy - topless maybe, bottomless or with holes, no. I'm working on something for you guys that will make you throw all those stupid hole mods / cut off the airbox bottom baloney in the trash. Yes, the battery change wont be as fast so what's that + 30 mins every 4-5 years ? I.A.T. will be 30+ degrees less. That's what you really want. It's coming. (y) :cool:
 

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I see no reason to let hot air rise into the intake - totally counter-intuitive and a bit noisy - topless maybe, bottomless or with holes, no. I'm working on something for you guys that will make you throw all those stupid hole mods / cut off the airbox bottom baloney in the trash. Yes, the battery change wont be as fast so what's that + 30 mins every 4-5 years ? I.A.T. will be 30+ degrees less. That's what you really want. It's coming. (y) :cool:
Worst possible place for the IAT is in the dead zone of the top of the air box. As for heat, under the airbox cover, it purges itself with ambient incoming air from the front in seconds, once you get rolling. The IAT also goes from heat soak to ambient much sooner and I've tested this quite a bit. The higher you place it in mounting the hotter it soaks on a shutdown. Worst place was over the battery as being the hottest, followed with stock airbox location in the dead air zone in the tests I've done monitoring it's temps. Takes forever to cool as there's no air flow over the sensor probe. There's a reason I put mine as low as possible, yet reading the incoming air at the filter media. Way more overall stable tune. I do agree, the SE mod with holes in the lower box and topless is a joke. Say what you will, that stock air box is only there to be an intake silencer, not some magical means of induction as some claim. For a silencer, it works well.
Ron
 

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The V Twin is a slave to packaging - I love the Revo engine and H-D did an outstanding job of getting everything to fit, putting the fuel weight low in the frame under the seat, the airbox under the fake tank cover etc. on the V Rod but compared to transverse 2,3 or 4 cylinder engine bikes the wide Revo cylinder angle stretches the wheelbase - great for a two up cruiser or a drag bike but not as sporty as it could be. It amazes me how well the stock airbox works both as a silencer as you say and getting clean air down the velocity stacks - you'd think you would gain 5-10 Hp by removing the top but no, it's more like 1-2 at WFO so it's damn good at what it does - that I.A.T. probe heat soak and inaccurate reading affecting the tune to me has a bigger improvement point than cutting up the airbox, sounds like you've optimized the position of yours Ron - those thoughts are well considered.
 

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The V Twin is a slave to packaging - I love the Revo engine and H-D did an outstanding job of getting everything to fit, putting the fuel weight low in the frame under the seat, the airbox under the fake tank cover etc. on the V Rod but compared to transverse 2,3 or 4 cylinder engine bikes the wide Revo cylinder angle stretches the wheelbase - great for a two up cruiser or a drag bike but not as sporty as it could be. It amazes me how well the stock airbox works both as a silencer as you say and getting clean air down the velocity stacks - you'd think you would gain 5-10 Hp by removing the top but no, it's more like 1-2 at WFO so it's damn good at what it does - that I.A.T. probe heat soak and inaccurate reading affecting the tune to me has a bigger improvement point than cutting up the airbox, sounds like you've optimized the position of yours Ron - those thoughts are well considered.
Well, technically the IAT with that hybrid speed density system should be in the intake manifold. Remember when the fools at HD stuck the 2002 v rod sensor at the rear head? Duh. That was a super heat soak, hot starting problem, followed with a relocate and cal adjustment. Then they stuck it in a dead air spot of the breather, which does heat soak as heat travels up hill after engine is shut down and heats the box up. When testing I was monitoring the IAT temp with the stock box. It would take miles for it to cool back to ambient readings since any incoming air bypasses the area where the IAT is plugged into the lid. Where I have mine, about 1/4 mile, if that. Some of this due to less heat convection at the lower point and a lower soaked number to start with. You would not believe the fuel and time I wasted trying to get a real stable tune, not really knowing how heat soaked that sensor was during data collection. Most that do their own autotuning never even consider. I won't collect data at any point where the IAT is soaked beyond 10F of ambient. I ride first then hit the log button for data. Makes a real difference in fueling for a middle of the road tune between cold and hot weather. As for claims of hp with topless , ain't buying it. Most of the , if any gain claims be it SE filter or topless come from a tune rather then back to back testing on the same tune. The stock paper air filter can feed a small V8 with the area it has. This is also one of the reasons I won't run a K&N or equivalent as the filtration drops but no real gain in hp. Stock filter area is way beyond the need to have bigger holes in the filter to let more air in. People will still keep buying them though.
Ron
 

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Ron....do you have a pic of where/how you mounted the IAT plug. I "see" better with pics:)
Also, do you know if Don Morris is still operating his shop (with Covid). May have to drop by in the Spring to talk about getting some work done.

John
 

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This is also one of the reasons I won't run a K&N or equivalent as the filtration drops but no real gain in hp. Stock filter area is way beyond the need to have bigger holes in the filter to let more air in. People will still keep buying them though.
Ron
Ha, finally found another rare person that believes as I do w.r.t. K&N. I don't use K&N, neither on my V-Rods nor on my HD Tourers.
 
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Ron....do you have a pic of where/how you mounted the IAT plug. I "see" better with pics:)
Also, do you know if Don Morris is still operating his shop (with Covid). May have to drop by in the Spring to talk about getting some work done.

John
The probe sits between pleates. Note there is a stiffener plate and a rubber pad attached where it contacts the coolant pipe. I don't know Don Morris. What's the shop called?
Ron
 

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Great info Ron - yea chasing ones tail during tuning due to a heat soaked I.A.T. probe can waste lots of time, I've learned a lot from you & many others here who learned it the hard way - thanks to you guys ! Your I.A.T. probe position looks close to ideal - did you ever consider mounting it inside the air filter pleating ( i.e. inside the filtered area ) where it samples air temp after it passes thru the air filter ? Seems that would be most accurate, fastest to return to ambient temp after startup and least affected by heat soak -
 

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The probe sits between pleates. Note there is a stiffener plate and a rubber pad attached where it contacts the coolant pipe. I don't know Don Morris. What's the shop called?
Ron
Thanks for the pic Ron!
I thought we talked about Stay Tuned Systems/Don Morris in the past. He works out of his "Home Garage" in the Hamilton Airport area. Good guy. Will talk your ear off about motorcycle builds/tuning. Don dyno'd my bike......
 

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Great info Ron - yea chasing ones tail during tuning due to a heat soaked I.A.T. probe can waste lots of time, I've learned a lot from you & many others here who learned it the hard way - thanks to you guys ! Your I.A.T. probe position looks close to ideal - did you ever consider mounting it inside the air filter pleating ( i.e. inside the filtered area ) where it samples air temp after it passes thru the air filter ? Seems that would be most accurate, fastest to return to ambient temp after startup and least affected by heat soak -
Yeah, I did but it seemed fine where it is, so called it quits at that point.
Ron
 
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