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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering if the stutter I have with my 09 muscle is because of the PCV that I have with autotune has version 1.2 on it compared to the 1.4 version that is out. Is this the reason that my muscle is stuttering between 3 to 4 thousand rpm?
 

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I was wondering if the stutter I have with my 09 muscle is because of the PCV that I have with autotune has version 1.2 on it compared to the 1.4 version that is out. Is this the reason that my muscle is stuttering between 3 to 4 thousand rpm?
No many of us F'rs have had the same issue. I found the same stutter stock and I have now been able to tune it out with the PC V. Look at loading up some of the latest maps from those of us with Muscles.

I can't recommend any of the upgrades to the firmware or software, but you are going have to do it sooner or later, as many have had issues after doing so but all have seemed to be resolved with persistance.

Try this one in post #3 http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141508

Read thru the Power Commander thread lots and lots of info. Some of us have been at this for more then a year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I find it hard to believe that there are that many bikes out their with bad fuel injectors unless the factory has a faulty product with the fuel injectors they put into these bikes.
I have the auto tune installed on this bike and after every ride I except the trim settings but still the next time I ride this issue kind of goes away but is still their to some effect. If it is faulty injectors somebody needs to contact harley for a massive recall on these injectors.
 

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Buy American!
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Its not so much that the injectors are bad, I think that they foul easily and are exceptionally hard to clean after they get really bad (a bottle of injector cleaner won't work). Maybe it's the 10% ethanol that was mandated after the injectors were designed, I don't know.

Every three or four tankfuls and I sometimes notice a skip. I add 1 ounce of Lucas Fuel Treatment to the next couple of tankfuls and it seems to clean it up. I'll never let it get really bad again if I can help it.
 

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DR Dave,
Not that I doubt the injector problem but the Muscle seems to have an issue straight out of the crate. I had an injector changed in my bike before 100 miles but it did not solve the problem swaink is speaking of....I believe with the Muscle that we either have an ECM issue or, and my belief, is an O2 sensor issue with the crossover pipe. If I can find some exhaust baffle packing material (cheap) I intend to block my crossover pipe to see if it will solve our issue. I also thinking blocking the crossover will solve the reversion problem some see with TAB slip ons. The Muscle crossover is unique to this bike and the 3k to 4k seems to have been a Muscle only problem so far. I believe this is the only differance in the models but have yet to confirm it all.

I am not an enginidiot, but just a good old fashion backyard, american, shade tree mechanic. With more then 30 years of experience in mechanics and tuning from Lawn Mowers to Alcohol Dragsters, and everything else in between (diesels included). This Muscle thing is a burr in my ass and I'm getting closer to figuring out why every day.....well lately the weather has kept me in the garage, but I am still looking for a solution for all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I know that it wouldn't be the crossover, I had the Vance and Hines competition slip ons with the same problem, I now have the VH competition 2 into 1. That kind of led me to believe it has to be a computer issue rather than mechanical. I am going to call powercommander today and have them walk me through the firmware update and take the bike out, after the ride I will accept the trims and do it all over again and see it their are any changes.
 

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I know that it wouldn't be the crossover, I had the Vance and Hines competition slip ons with the same problem, I now have the VH competition 2 into 1. That kind of led me to believe it has to be a computer issue rather than mechanical. I am going to call powercommander today and have them walk me through the firmware update and take the bike out, after the ride I will accept the trims and do it all over again and see it their are any changes.
That's the info I am looking for.....if you now have a 2 into 1 system and still have the same issue, then now need to look at injectors and ECM. Anyone out there that did an upgrade and want to give up their injectors, pm me and let's deal. Anyone with an extra ECM from a 1250 and not from a Muscle lets talk.

I pretty much have got my PC V tuned to where I have lessened the 3k to 4k problem but it has taken alot of time. It will not be a dyno monster, it does not blow black smoke, and 99% of the time the gurgle, pop, stutter at 3 to 4k isn't there. Now as the weather goes cold here in Alaska I will see if it returns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The autotune seems to be working but after every trim accept the result is a little better and then after so many rides it is back to the same problems. I also have an 08 VRSCA that my wife owns but I haven't done anything to this one yet everything is still stock. I'm hoping to get all the bugs worked out on the muscle before I start putting pipes and powercommander on the A.
 

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Blowin' Smoke
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My '02 had that same problem manifested as a slight hesitation at partial throttle in the 3000 to 3500 rpm range. I was able to get fantastic fuel mileage, sometimes over 50 mpg, but had to live with that stutter.

I added a "Gil's Box" fuel integrator, a piggyback unit that widens the signal to the injectors, and was able to set it to just add a bit during low and mid range operation. Now, the stumble is gone, and I still get around 45 mpg.

The problem is that, in order to meet the EPA requirements, the factory mixture is set to the leanest possible in the partial throttle ranges, which seems to be the normal operating range for a lot of folks. It just needs to be fattened up a bit in those ranges for partial throttle operation.
 

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The problem is that, in order to meet the EPA requirements, the factory mixture is set to the leanest possible in the partial throttle ranges, which seems to be the normal operating range for a lot of folks. It just needs to be fattened up a bit in those ranges for partial throttle operation.
so simple and makes so much sense at the same time. Most HDs redline at 6 or 7k? Our bikes don't redline until 9k+. Even our operator's manual tells us to shift way early. (3rd gear at 30mph per manual).
 

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so simple and makes so much sense at the same time. Most HDs redline at 6 or 7k? Our bikes don't redline until 9k+. Even our operator's manual tells us to shift way early. (3rd gear at 30mph per manual).
I always wondered about that... Same exact shift speeds in the manual for my '09 Electra Glide. :banghead:
 

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My '02 had that same problem manifested as a slight hesitation at partial throttle in the 3000 to 3500 rpm range. I was able to get fantastic fuel mileage, sometimes over 50 mpg, but had to live with that stutter.

I added a "Gil's Box" fuel integrator, a piggyback unit that widens the signal to the injectors, and was able to set it to just add a bit during low and mid range operation. Now, the stumble is gone, and I still get around 45 mpg.

The problem is that, in order to meet the EPA requirements, the factory mixture is set to the leanest possible in the partial throttle ranges, which seems to be the normal operating range for a lot of folks. It just needs to be fattened up a bit in those ranges for partial throttle operation.
I also have richen it up the mix at cruise to compensate and have made it much better. The problem is it seems to be isolated to 1 cylinder. The good thing about having exhaust out both sides allows you to isolate the problem cylinder.
 

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I also thinking blocking the crossover will solve the reversion problem some see with TAB slip ons. The Muscle crossover is unique to this bike and the 3k to 4k seems to have been a Muscle only problem so far.
That's not true. I have an 08 "D" and have experienced 3-4k problems since the first day I installed the PCV. It was there with stock pipes, V-Mods, and the Bub 7 2-1. I got tired of screwing with the maps and guessing as to whether it's a temp sensor issue, O2, injector, spark, reversion, etc etc and am now trying to just ignore it and enjoy the bike.

If anything, I think it's a 1250 problem. Maybe some 1130 owners will chime in and correct me. I figure Dynojet will eventually get tired of the complaints and come up with a fix, and until then I'm just putting on the miles and burning through that rpm range as quickly as possible. :)
 

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That's not true. I have an 08 "D" and have experienced 3-4k problems since the first day I installed the PCV. It was there with stock pipes, V-Mods, and the Bub 7 2-1. I got tired of screwing with the maps and guessing as to whether it's a temp sensor issue, O2, injector, spark, reversion, etc etc and am now trying to just ignore it and enjoy the bike.

If anything, I think it's a 1250 problem. Maybe some 1130 owners will chime in and correct me. I figure Dynojet will eventually get tired of the complaints and come up with a fix, and until then I'm just putting on the miles and burning through that rpm range as quickly as possible. :)
Not that I want this thread to be the collection plate for all models with the same 3 to 4 k problem but I have read very little where any other models were having the 3 to 4 issue. From what Iwas gathering till now was that it appearred to be a "F" problem only.

I have since have mine programmed out, but then again my riding time has been very limited due to rain. Today is Day 29 with rain..........I have about given up on riding. Even with a windshield and wet gear it's just not any fun right now.
 

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My 08 AW does the 3-4k stumble as well. It comes and goes. Its a 1250cc btw.
 

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This lean condition stumble is not isolated to the 1250, maybe exacerbated, but has been the bane of the V-rod since its inception. In the earlier bikes it was hit and miss, i.e., not every bike had the problem. But, it tended to show up when you changed to high-flow components, thus the mandatory fueler device. The marque was always on the lean edge from the factory, probably to satisfy EPA.
 

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check the t max section. stumbles galore on 1250's. Ive got a 08 dx topless, rh 2/1. bike runs minty fresh w stock ecu. anything else and its a stumble monster.
 
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