Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hi

V Rod Muscle 1250cc 2011 model 37.000KM
I changed the relays
Engine is too hot

temperature sensor changed


what else should i look for ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
I don't mean to treat you like you are ignorant.

Did you check the fuse?

Check to make sure correct voltage is going to the fuse, my guess is 12v. I don't know how many amps but less than 15.

Check to make sure current goes to the relay.

I think you can jump the temp sensor to get the fan to turn on. From that point check to see if current is going to the fan.

If you have current going to the fan and it's not turning on there is the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
hi

V Rod Muscle 1250cc 2011 model 37.000KM
I changed the relays
Engine is too hot

temperature sensor changed


what else should i look for ??
Do the fans run if you remove the maxi fuse and refit it? The fans should turn on for a short period when the fuse is refitted. Have you checked to see if they will turn by hand to make sure they are not siezed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
I'm leaning towards the fan myself. To be honest, I would hope it's the fan because issues with the current can become a nightmare to figure out.

I was thinking I wonder if a ground wire came loose on the fan, like on a connector somewhere. It turns out someone just had to point out the obvious to me :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for your interest

the temperature has changed.
relay checked
Grounding cables checked

The problem still continues
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
Did you check to see if the fan turns? That it is not seized, those were great suggestions by Coastrider. I believe the fan should turn freely with the push of a finger.

Do you have current going to the fan?

What is your process for checking relay, ground cables? How do you know the engine is getting too hot? This is so we can get on the same page.

Here in the U.S. HD dealership service is not worth much, I am willing to bet the dealer accessibility is sparse in countries over the Atlantic. So I won't suggest going to a dealer :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The fan turns by hand.
I put the relay key, I can open and close it with the fan

Grounding Checked

The current goes to the fan

There is an imbalance in the temperature measurement place I see 200 fahrenheit 290 fahrenheit

Fault light turns on 30 minutes after installing the relay and driving

Error Codes
P0113
P1481
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
P0113, IAT sensor open/high, means that your Intake Air Temperature sensor is either not plugged in, damaged, or you have an open (broken) wire in the wire harness.

DTC P1481 is fan relay coil open/low. This means the relay controller (ECM pin #2) is sensing 0 volts (either the 12 V relay coil supply is disconnected or the other side of the coil is shorted to ground)

I'm running out of tricks here and it's difficult for me with out working on the bike myself.

Have you ever observed the fan turning under its own power? For example, can you feed power to the fan and see if it turns? Its a 12 V fan right, it should turn if you connect it directly to the battery.

This will eliminate the fan being faulty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Fan Relay I put a button on the place where I turn it on when I want to start a fan.

I can't find the source of the problem
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
Interesting.

That wiring diagram seems to contradict what the guy was suggesting in the video that there is a sending unit for the fan. I found that weird but I figured what ever.

OK.

I do not see where the water temp sensor is in that wire diagram.

Thinking while typing here.

Does the temp sensor act like a switch on a vrod? So once the water temp reaches a certain temp the sensor closes the circuit?

That wiring diagram does not seem to suggest that, it suggests that the temp sensor is sending data to the ECM, which then actuates the fan.

I was wondering if jumping the temp sensor would actuate the fan. Based on that wiring diagram I don't know how the ECM would look at that, my guess you might just blow a fuse.

One other question. Did you replace all the parts with original HD parts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,176 Posts
Interesting.

That wiring diagram seems to contradict what the guy was suggesting in the video that there is a sending unit for the fan. I found that weird but I figured what ever.

OK.

I do not see where the water temp sensor is in that wire diagram.

Thinking while typing here.

Does the temp sensor act like a switch on a vrod? So once the water temp reaches a certain temp the sensor closes the circuit?

That wiring diagram does not seem to suggest that, it suggests that the temp sensor is sending data to the ECM, which then actuates the fan.

I was wondering if jumping the temp sensor would actuate the fan. Based on that wiring diagram I don't know how the ECM would look at that, my guess you might just blow a fuse.

One other question. Did you replace all the parts with original HD parts?
Temp sensor is the signal wire. It's resistance per temp alters the voltage the ECM sees and when it hits a certain value, the ECM triggers the fan relay. This provides power to the fans. Both fans share a common ground. That drawing is from the 2013 electrical manual but they all work the same way. Incidentally the temp sensor also controls the IAC. So if the cold idle and hot idle are normal that sensor can be ruled out. Likely cause is the relay, power to it from fuse or the ECM failing to energize the coil in the relay.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
Ron. I was just thinking about this problem. The temp sensors I was thinking of use resistance, when ohms reach 0 or a specific threshold then enough voltage can pass through the circuit to operate the fan (Old car stuff). This is not the case here.

I am at that same point.

Either the relay is not switching over when it is supposed to, or the ECM is not switching on the fan. Msuner said that he uses a button to actuate the fan.

Just a thought: Years ago I was working on an old Honda Shadow that used a relay to actuate turn signals. I recall ordering a new one and could not get it to switch, I had to unfreeze the old one by forcing it to switch then it worked. For what ever reason (probably SLIGHTLY reduced current) the new relay which worked when tested would not switch, but the old one would after I forced it (Little bit looser from years of use?). I wonder if it is a possible similar issue here. The one I was dealing with was a mechanical relay, I wonder if solid state relays can also have this problem. I don't know off hand which relays the vrod uses.

This stuff is made to very high tolerance, if there is a slight increase in margin of error in the part (aftermarket or otherwise) then the part may not work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,176 Posts
Ron. I was just thinking about this problem. The temp sensors I was thinking of use resistance, when ohms reach 0 or a specific threshold then enough voltage can pass through the circuit to operate the fan (Old car stuff). This is not the case here.

I am at that same point.

Either the relay is not switching over when it is supposed to, or the ECM is not switching on the fan. Msuner said that he uses a button to actuate the fan.

Just a thought: Years ago I was working on an old Honda Shadow that used a relay to actuate turn signals. I recall ordering a new one and could not get it to switch, I had to unfreeze the old one by forcing it to switch then it worked. For what ever reason (probably SLIGHTLY reduced current) the new relay which worked when tested would not switch, but the old one would after I forced it (Little bit looser from years of use?). I wonder if it is a possible similar issue here. The one I was dealing with was a mechanical relay, I wonder if solid state relays can also have this problem. I don't know off hand which relays the vrod uses.

This stuff is made to very high tolerance, if there is a slight increase in margin of error in the part (aftermarket or otherwise) then the part may not work.
The ECM sends voltage to the relay, which closes the fan relay to provide B+ to the fans. Terminal 2 does that. In my case, if it was my bike I'd make sure the relay was getting key on, fused power to the relay terminal fist as shown in the pic I supplied. Then back probe the pin 2 with a VOM hooked up and run the engine to 217-220* and see if the ECM provides the B+ to close the relay. This is easy with something like a PV hooked up as you can see the temp. That temp comes from the temp sensor, which will trigger the ECM to supply power to the relay, close it and fans should run. The fan and start relay and system relays are all the same, at least on my 13 model and they can be swapped for testing. I do seem to remember the OP got a new relay however. If the temp sensor is faulty it won't trigger the ECM #2 pin , however that sensor also works the steps in the IAC so there would be a tell tale effect pointing to a sensor issue there. The idle won't drop down to 1250 rpm.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
The ECM sends voltage to the relay, which closes the fan relay to provide B+ to the fans. Terminal 2 does that. In my case, if it was my bike I'd make sure the relay was getting key on, fused power to the relay terminal fist as shown in the pic I supplied. Then back probe the pin 2 with a VOM hooked up and run the engine to 217-220* and see if the ECM provides the B+ to close the relay. This is easy with something like a PV hooked up as you can see the temp. That temp comes from the temp sensor, which will trigger the ECM to supply power to the relay, close it and fans should run. The fan and start relay and system relays are all the same, at least on my 13 model and they can be swapped for testing. I do seem to remember the OP got a new relay however. If the temp sensor is faulty it won't trigger the ECM #2 pin , however that sensor also works the steps in the IAC so there would be a tell tale effect pointing to a sensor issue there. The idle won't drop down to 1250 rpm.
Ron
Ron, I think you mean ECM sends ground signal to relay not B+. A simple check to see if all the other connections are correct is to just connect a wire between ground and PIN 2 and if all else is well the fans should run. The system relay functions the same way and I have heard of ECM failures where it does not emit the signal, so if everything is all correct and you are sure the temp sender is functioning correctly it could be a faulty ECM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,176 Posts
Ron, I think you mean ECM sends ground signal to relay not B+. A simple check to see if all the other connections are correct is to just connect a wire between ground and PIN 2 and if all else is well the fans should run. The system relay functions the same way and I have heard of ECM failures where it does not emit the signal, so if everything is all correct and you are sure the temp sender is functioning correctly it could be a faulty ECM.
Correct, ground to the H terminal of the relay, taking a second look at the relay coils and remembering now the other relays activate the same way. My mistake.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
Correct, ground to the H terminal of the relay, taking a second look at the relay coils and remembering now the other relays activate the same way. My mistake.
Ron
I will frame this!! Very rare for me to correct you with your great knowledge levels! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,176 Posts
I will frame this!! Very rare for me to correct you with your great knowledge levels! :D
Correction is good and trust me I fk up plenty. I did think about it the other day but never modified the post , figuring nobody would notice and just look at the picture. Then you came along.LOL(y)
Ron
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top