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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello friends.

My name is Charles and I work in a specialized HD workshop in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

I have two v-rod, being a muscle 2013 and a NR 2012 with the same problem. Both have failures when accelerating between 4k and 5k RPM, sometimes stopping the engine. The fault only happens when the engine is cold. When it warms up, the problem disappears.

Both feature dtc related to front and rear probes.

I already replaced probes, IAC, MAP, module and the problem persists. In one of them, I replaced the temperature sensor and the dtc related to the probes disappeared, however, the acceleration failure continues.

Does anyone have any suggestions or have had a similar problem? How was it resolved?

Unfortunately in Brazil v-rods are not so popular and I haven't found someone with enough experience to help me with the solution.

Forgive the bad language. I used Google translator to help me as I'm not fluent in English. 😬

Big hug
 

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Two 2003 VRSCA's: CTHULHU is Black/Sterling, N/A ; EVIL TWIN is Anodized and S/C
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Welcome to the forum. Don't worry about your English! I'm sure it's better than my Portuguese! Am I speaking for all of us? ha. How long have these failures been happening? What are there, if any, codes being displayed on the instrument clusters?

Can you tell us, please, what, if any, aftermarket performance parts, including exhaust or air cleaner element replacements may be installed on the bike(s)? If they have aftermarket air cleaner elements have they been recently recharged? (The term used to describe washing and re-oiling).

What fuel are you using? Have you tried swapping out the Oxygen sensors? To see if the problem persists or can be targeted to one or another of them. Is it at all possible the fuel injectors have been removed recently and perhaps swapped in place of one another? This can cause a stutter. Have the spark plugs been recently replaced? Do they have the proper gap? Have you uninstalled the voltage regulator to check on it's condition? (They usually crack in the back when they go bad).

These are my preliminary thoughts. Please let us know more!

-Sean
 

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I Hate Stupid People
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Everyone is going to comment.
Your bike is COLD.. Rev limit safety @ cold temperature. DONT WORRY ABOUT IT..WARM YOUR LIQUID COOLED V-ROD UP..
Enjoy your ride..
 
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-MIG
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WELCOME! ...and as @TEAZZR stated, your bikes need to warm up first. 4K is when the powerband kicks in and you should only meet or exceed this with a warm engine. In my experience, I ride for 3 to 5 minutes before I get heavy on the throttle. If you feel your bikes take too long to heat up to operating temperature, check the thermostats.
-MIG
 

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Your bike should run fine both cold and warmed up.
I would check the fuel related things first. Symptoms like yours could be a result of a very lean AFR condition.
What kind of fuel you have there? I guess the alcohol% could be quite high.
Injectors, fuel strainer (at the pump, inside fuel tank),throttle body grommets check for vacuum leak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Welcome to the forum. Don't worry about your English! I'm sure it's better than my Portuguese! Am I speaking for all of us? ha. How long have these failures been happening? What are there, if any, codes being displayed on the instrument clusters?

Can you tell us, please, what, if any, aftermarket performance parts, including exhaust or air cleaner element replacements may be installed on the bike(s)? If they have aftermarket air cleaner elements have they been recently recharged? (The term used to describe washing and re-oiling).

What fuel are you using? Have you tried swapping out the Oxygen sensors? To see if the problem persists or can be targeted to one or another of them. Is it at all possible the fuel injectors have been removed recently and perhaps swapped in place of one another? This can cause a stutter. Have the spark plugs been recently replaced? Do they have the proper gap? Have you uninstalled the voltage regulator to check on it's condition? (They usually crack in the back when they go bad).

These are my preliminary thoughts. Please let us know more!

-Sean
Hello Brother.
thanks for answering. I will only use one of them as a reference.

accessories only have earmuffs from the customer (Brazilian) brand. the rest is all original.

the fuel that is is the common one. remembering that our gasoline has 20% ethanol added, apart from other junk that the smart Brazilian adds to yield. 🙄

I changed the oxygen sensors and map sensor, checked the spark plugs and even replaced them with new ones and the failure continues.

the DTCs it shows are P0151, P0152, but, as I said, I already replaced it and it still fails and the DTCs come back.

when I replaced the temperature sensor, there was no more oxygen sensor DTC, but the fault remained.

I realized that all these sensors are part of the same 5v power line including TPS

about what people often talk about warming up the bike before riding, I want to remind you that our climate here is tropical. our cold here is your heat. 😂

in general, other v-rods that arrive here, we usually turn on and ride normally without the need to warm up before leaving and they work perfectly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
BEM VINDA! ...e como @TEAZZR afirmou, suas bicicletas precisam se aquecer primeiro. 4K é quando a banda de potência entra em ação e você só deve atender ou exceder isso com um motor quente. Na minha experiência, eu ando de 3 a 5 minutos antes de pegar pesado no acelerador. Se você sentir que suas bicicletas demoram muito para aquecer até a temperatura de operação, verifique os termostatos.
-MIG
[/CITAR]
WELCOME! ...and as @TEAZZR stated, your bikes need to warm up first. 4K is when the powerband kicks in and you should only meet or exceed this with a warm engine. In my experience, I ride for 3 to 5 minutes before I get heavy on the throttle. If you feel your bikes take too long to heat up to operating temperature, check the thermostats.
-MIG
brother

remembering that I'm in Brazil. our cold here is the unbearable heat for you. 😂

At the moment, it's summer and the outside temperature is 36ºC and even in the cold we don't need to warm up the bike to work properly. generally, when it has no defects, we call and leave without a problem.
 

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Hello friends.

My name is Charles and I work in a specialized HD workshop in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

I have two v-rod, being a muscle 2013 and a NR 2012 with the same problem. Both have failures when accelerating between 4k and 5k RPM, sometimes stopping the engine. The fault only happens when the engine is cold. When it warms up, the problem disappears.

Both feature dtc related to front and rear probes.

I already replaced probes, IAC, MAP, module and the problem persists. In one of them, I replaced the temperature sensor and the dtc related to the probes disappeared, however, the acceleration failure continues.

Does anyone have any suggestions or have had a similar problem? How was it resolved?

Unfortunately in Brazil v-rods are not so popular and I haven't found someone with enough experience to help me with the solution.

Forgive the bad language. I used Google translator to help me as I'm not fluent in English. 😬

Big hug
What was the exact code for the O2 sensors? Was it a lean code? Can't see it being that cold in Brazil but a colder engine needs more fuel. Sounds like you might be borderline lean at that state of temp and rpm. Maybe the factory tune or a low fuel delivery problem. Check fuel pressure and go from there. 57-61psi. In either case, the engine should not completely quit but rather die and recover if you roll the throttle back. On another note, it's a good idea to allow some warmup on any engine before getting on the throttle. Oil flows better and forged pistons expand, ready for action.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Your bike should run fine both cold and warmed up.
I would check the fuel related things first. Symptoms like yours could be a result of a very lean AFR condition.
What kind of fuel you have there? I guess the alcohol% could be quite high.
Injectors, fuel strainer (at the pump, inside fuel tank),throttle body grommets check for vacuum leak.
Thanks for the answer.

our fuel is really bad. it has 20% ethanol addition out of other crap.

I've already cleaned injectors, TBI, changed gaskets and etc. I firmly believe the problem is electrical/electronic.
 

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Two bikes behaving the same way, can't see it being electrical. If you have the stock tune that 20% ethanol might send it over the edge lean, right at the point where it comes off of the warmup table in the calibration. There's a point where the O2 sensors start to trim the AFR but there's a minimum temp for this to happen. The warmup table adds extra fuel, actually quite a bit , even for a stock tune but only lasts, depending on temp a bit over one minute or so. If the minimum temp isn't hit for the sensors to come online to trim the AFR it will be quite lean at that state. Takes about a minute or two for the senors to trim the afr a bit richer then. This is why, even though still lean, it's not lean enough to stumble in that 4k range. This is the best answer I can come up with for both bikes behaving the same. Basically the stock tune and 20%E.
Ron
 

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As a thought… the 20% ethanol would contribute to the lean condition as well. Especially if it’s already on the lean side to begin with….
do you have access to a lab scope? Or a volt meter? You can backprobe the O2 sensor and see where you are at- it should average 450mv and have consistent and quick switching between 50mv and 950mv. If it’s sticking below 450- you’re definitely lean.
 

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-MIG
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brother

remembering that I'm in Brazil. our cold here is the unbearable heat for you. 😂

At the moment, it's summer and the outside temperature is 36ºC and even in the cold we don't need to warm up the bike to work properly. generally, when it has no defects, we call and leave without a problem.
Heh! Understand... The warmth does make for a longer riding season though. Heh! With two bikes with the same symptoms, it just feels like it has to be an external factor common to both which points to component age (both bikes are close in age) or fuel. With component age, as mentioned, a fresh tune may be in order... or it certainly wouldn't hurt. With fuel, I would try an additive like STA-BIL 360 or similar.
Good Luck and let us know what you learn.
-MIG
 

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Autobanmod
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Bom Dia!
Like rbabos and Ceigenberger said, ... you could try and increase fuel pressure to 3,5 bar and see if it helps.
Either use an adjustable pressure regulator which is not boostcontrolled, or modify the OEM by compressing the internal spring / indenting the housing.
 

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Hello Brother.
thanks for answering. I will only use one of them as a reference.

accessories only have earmuffs from the customer (Brazilian) brand. the rest is all original.

the fuel that is is the common one. remembering that our gasoline has 20% ethanol added, apart from other junk that the smart Brazilian adds to yield. 🙄

I changed the oxygen sensors and map sensor, checked the spark plugs and even replaced them with new ones and the failure continues.

the DTCs it shows are P0151, P0152, but, as I said, I already replaced it and it still fails and the DTCs come back.

when I replaced the temperature sensor, there was no more oxygen sensor DTC, but the fault remained.

I realized that all these sensors are part of the same 5v power line including TPS

about what people often talk about warming up the bike before riding, I want to remind you that our climate here is tropical. our cold here is your heat. 😂

in general, other v-rods that arrive here, we usually turn on and ride normally without the need to warm up before leaving and they work perfectly.
The metal needs much higher temperatures, 300+ degrees F to expand, and the oil needs >175 or so...
20% etoh likely needs serious enrichment. You may have lean stumble. If you cant find a tuner there, Dyno tech power vision with auto tune pro (wide band bosch o2 sensors) will get you pretty close. Needs 18mm exhaust bungs for the o2 sensors.
 
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