Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Buy American!
Joined
·
3,960 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need some expert help.

Not that I am going to turn into a drag racer or anything, but I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong.

I took my bike to the Gainesville Raceway yesterday. My reaction times were all over the place and I didn't figure that out until late when another racer told me that the staging lights were different depending on which pre-staging lane I chose for approach. So that was that.

But what surprised me is that my first run was my best of the night. No matter how hard I tried, I was horribly inconsistent.

I'd love to post my 7 time slips, but I'm too cheap to purchase a new scanner and my old Hewlett Packard printer still works fine for everything else but software compatibility with my Vista operating system. But here are the results:

  1. R/T: 0.673, 60ft: 1.771, 1/8: 7.606, 1/4: 11.987, 108.41mph
  2. R/T: 0.725, 60ft: 1.873, 1/8: 7.767, 1/4: 12.191, 109.73mph
  3. R/T: -.006, 60ft: 1.809, 1/8: 7.691, 1/4: 12.107, 109.25 mph
  4. R/T: 0.309, 60ft: 1.970, 1/8: 7.842, 1/4: 12.245, 109.92 mph
  5. R/T: 0.169, 60ft: 1.828, 1/8: 7.681, 1/4: 12.076, 109.67 mph
  6. R/T: 0.549, 60ft: 2.145, 1/8: 8.151, 1/4: 12.552, 109.40 mph
  7. R/T: 0.327, 60ft: 1.803, 1/8: 7.648, 1/4: 12.062, 109.00 mph

I did not pre-stage burnout until the last run, but I didn't feel that I was spinning hardly at all. The 4th and 7th runs were in the left lane, the others in the right. The 4th, 5th, and 6th runs were the only solo runs. The 6th run, I spun badly and had to let off to gain control. The 7th run I actually decided to pre-stage burnout for the first time, then wheelied the first 60 ft.

What am I doing wrong? I can post the other data if necessary.
 

·
Noel
Joined
·
4,612 Posts
You're doing Great

More Seat Time!!!!

RT's:
You can become more consistent if you stage the exact same depth from run to run, once you trip the second bulb, either hang right there or move in deeper but always the exact amount.

Eye on the tree, runs 1,2,6 you saw green before leaving, the others were before green but on the late side of the third yellow.

60's:
You seem to be searching for the right amount of clutch feed, you appear to be in the neighborhood:
How are you applying the clutch?
What launch RPM?
Any serious Bogging when it's not Spinning?
Warming the tire helps with launch traction, as you get more aggressive with the clutch & launch RPM she will stick, but you may also lift a bit, get used to that feeling & how best to control it with out destroying the forward momentum.
How did you react when the wheel lifted? Hard chop, braked, leaned into it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
well I can't help you with the Racing but if you have a camera just take a picture of the slips and post that works just as well .

I know when i was racing jetskis to get a good jump i had a regimen I went through with each start once i got that down I became very consitant. It was as detailed as i could be
 

·
Buy American!
Joined
·
3,960 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
More Seat Time!!!!

RT's:
You can become more consistent if you stage the exact same depth from run to run, once you trip the second bulb, either hang right there or move in deeper but always the exact amount.

Eye on the tree, runs 1,2,6 you saw green before leaving, the others were before green but on the late side of the third yellow.

60's:
You seem to be searching for the right amount of clutch feed, you appear to be in the neighborhood:
How are you applying the clutch?
What launch RPM?
Any serious Bogging when it's not Spinning?
Warming the tire helps with launch traction, as you get more aggressive with the clutch & launch RPM she will stick, but you may also lift a bit, get used to that feeling & how best to control it with out destroying the forward momentum.
How did you react when the wheel lifted? Hard chop, braked, leaned into it?
Thanks for the reply. I want to get more seat time, but I don't want to waste my time developing bad habits. Anything you can write will help.

To tell you the truth, it was almost surreal on my first run. I had just arrived at the track after a 50 mile ride and went straight to the gate. About half way down the track, I realized that it was me on the bike!

I never looked at my tach to know at what rpm I was launching. I was too busy trying to avoid embarrassment by having a poor reaction time or launching bog. But because I didn't want to bog it, I'm sure that I was above 5 grand on every run. I raised my launch rpms to maybe 7 grand for the last two runs, spun out on the 6th run and shifted late to second gear on the 7th (more to follow).

When it did lift (last run) I remember maintaining my forward lean, but then bounced it off of the rev limiter going into 2nd. That probably killed my best run of the night. It sure felt strongest on that last run out of the hole.

All night I didn't bog anywhere, except when I tried to do a dry burnout on the first run. That was embarrassing. So on the last run, I made sure on my burnout that I revved it high. BTW, I didn't run through the water at any time.

At what rpm should I launch? Should I use the water to burnout before each run? Should I twist the throttle between shifts or bounce the rev limiter? At what rpm should I shift?
 

·
Noel
Joined
·
4,612 Posts
All night I didn't bog anywhere, except when I tried to do a dry burnout on the first run. That was embarrassing. So on the last run, I made sure on my burnout that I revved it high. BTW, I didn't run through the water at any time.

At what rpm should I launch? Should I use the water to burnout before each run? Should I twist the throttle between shifts or bounce the rev limiter? At what rpm should I shift?
Water box, a lot of folks will ride around the wet section, then roll back into the water as far as possible with out getting the front tire wet, the reason for this is to improved the front's grip while you hold the front brake to prevent the bike from rolling forward during the burn out.

After getting the tire wet, roll forward out of the water pool onto the dry section, lock the front brake, (you should already be in second gear, rev's up to 4 to 5 K, snap the clutch & pour on more throttle to get the wheel spinning good, you will know the rear is getting warm when the RPM's start dropping pour on a bit more throttle to keep the R's stable, when your satisfied the tires warm 5 to 10 seconds, cover the clutch lever to be ready to cut power after you release the front brake to initiate a burning roll out, roll a few feet at first to leave the rubber chaff behind you, chop the clutch in to keep from going to far. as you get more comfortable ride it out further but not past pre-stage, or as far as the official allows you to.

Kick down into first as your rolling to pre-stage.

Choose your groove, some tracks have protocol about slicks or street tires, slicks anywhere you where you want to be, they prefer inside groove (closer to center track), street tire bikes relegated to outside groove, not all tracks enforce this.

The groove your looking for should be dull surface where car tires have conditioned & left good clean rubber, no oil or water in the groove especially at the line, the officials keep a close eye on cleanliness if your concerned let them know to clean it up.

Launch in the 6500 to 7500 range, while feeding the clutch controlled drop (not a dump/snap), also do not over feather/ride the clutch.

Continue controlling your lift's with body English & rpm level, the bikes are lead sled's and if you have build like mine (240) the worst will be 12" rise then gradually back down to earth.

Good luck, work on each of these factors until your comfortable, then adjust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
821 Posts
Not much of a drag racer myself, but I've talked to a few of them that advised me to avoid the waterbox and doing the pre-run burnout when using street tires. Not only does that eat up a good set of street tires (and your ride home), but it provides little benefit when compared to 'real' drag tires. Any truth to that?
 

·
Noel
Joined
·
4,612 Posts
.... Any truth to that?
Yes & no, the compounds are different, street tires are not as soft or heat reactive as a slick but there are some street tires that perform better then a high mileage touring tire.

Another issue is the rain groove (treading) can retain a bit of water if the pool is deep, latent water in the tread can be flung onto the underside of the fender if it drips down on the tire it can cause slipping when you launch.

In my experience the Metz was pretty good, the Shinko street/strip tire is much better & the Shinko strip only (though it still has limited treading) is the most popular in street fighter class racing, I found this to be popular among the guys racing at New England.

No arguing this process eats tires, it's the cost of doing business when it comes to racing, racing of any sort is far from an economy hobby. :broke:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,925 Posts
THANKS for this thread Doc, learning too and planning to go to the racetrack on Wednesday to start learning in real life, if God and the rain allows, hehe!

PM SENT DR.!
 

·
Buy American!
Joined
·
3,960 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I just learned today that if I hold pressure upward on the shift lever, it will instantly shift into the next higher gear when the engine hits the rev limiter.

Is this the proper way to shift while racing?
 

·
In the Shark Tank!!!
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
Every time I see this thread I think of Mr Bongo drums.... Mathew who never left his parents house... :banghead::chair::banghead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,243 Posts
Taxman has giving you some real good info.. The main thing is figure out what works for you and do that every time. I launch my bike at 8000 RPM's and slide the clutch out(I use a stock clutch) When I pre stage I have my feet in the same place and roll up the on my toes the same amount. This will help with your reaction times in becoming more consistent, amazing what a 1/2 inch either way will do to you.... Usually the inside groove has better traction so try and use that if your track allows you to with street tires... Try to never line up on the shine surface of the track....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,243 Posts
As for the shifting method.. Im not a fan of that way.. In my mind if your hitting the rev limiter your losing power... Practice your foot shifting and try to not let out of the gas and quickly apply and release the clutch.. If your going to start racing much invest in a shift light and air/electric or electric shifter and that will make you much more consistent...

I use the word consistent a lot, thats what whens races...
 

·
In the Shark Tank!!!
Joined
·
1,633 Posts
You know he was in a friends house in Austin naked playing the bongo drums and the neighbors called in a noise complaint.... The cops showed up and gave him a few tickets...

This is all second hand info from the news.....
 

·
K.I.A. '07 AW
Joined
·
10,908 Posts
I just learned today that if I hold pressure upward on the shift lever, it will instantly shift into the next higher gear when the engine hits the rev limiter.

Is this the proper way to shift while racing?
On the V, I've hit neutral more times than not from first to second by using that method. Neutral tends to kill your momentum. Either invest in a shift light, or lots of practice and listening to how your engine sounds as you approach the limiter.

SUBSCRIBED
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,925 Posts
As for the shifting method.. Im not a fan of that way.. In my mind if your hitting the rev limiter your losing power... Practice your foot shifting and try to not let out of the gas and quickly apply and release the clutch...
I've noticed that shifting this way (keeping the gas and aplying/releasing the clutch) creates more pull or momentum than the way Dr. asked before (applying little preassure to the shifter reaching the rev limiter without applying the clutch), just a "pants on my seat" observation, nothing tested on the race track (but planned to, hehe!:angeldev:).

Is that a fact? Or is that "pull" an "illusion" because of the rapid shifting? :hidesbeh:
 

·
brett
Joined
·
9,338 Posts
On the V, I've hit neutral more times than not from first to second by using that method. Neutral tends to kill your momentum. Either invest in a shift light, or lots of practice and listening to how your engine sounds as you approach the limiter.

SUBSCRIBED
and i thought i was the only one ,i used to do it that way showing off when leaving a group, when u get it right very cool,but miss and hit neutral and bounce the limiter , makes u like look like a dick rather than cool ,lol
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top