Let me clear something up about the Force pipes. YOU DO NOT LOSE POWER! You will gain approximately 5hp from stock with a PC3r. Dont believe me you can check out the Dyno at V-MOD.com. As a matter of fact the Dyno from V-MOD.com is WITHOUT a PC3r. So you may gain an extra pony or 2 using a PC3r. With a custom Tune or Race tuner you can get more ponies as OKIE has done. The only pipes I know of that lose power over stock are the Sampsons and Rhineharts.