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The Hawk
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You might try completely disconnecting the battery, wait a few minutes then reconnect and see if it fixes it. Also, it might be worth it to replace the 2 relays to make sure the system is getting proper voltage. They are cheap and quick to replace.

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You might try completely disconnecting the battery, wait a few minutes then reconnect and see if it fixes it. Also, it might be worth it to replace the 2 relays to make sure the system is getting proper voltage. They are cheap and quick to replace.

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Harley had it and seem to think it had mechanical issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
You might try completely disconnecting the battery, wait a few minutes then reconnect and see if it fixes it. Also, it might be worth it to replace the 2 relays to make sure the system is getting proper voltage. They are cheap and quick to replace.

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One of the issues I had was a bad positive battery connection, it was causing the bike to have issues starting. When I fixed that issue last week the bike was unplugged overnight. I will however try replacing the relays at some point as well
 

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One of the issues I had was a bad positive battery connection, it was causing the bike to have issues starting. When I fixed that issue last week the bike was unplugged overnight. I will however try replacing the relays at some point as well
Disconnecting the battery have very little effect on the HD ECM other then possibly adaptive trims, even then, I'm not sure the EPROM chip is cleared with a disconnect.
Ron
 

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Low voltage however is a BIG problem with computers so also check voltage while it's running during the O/P check plus remove & re-clean top engine ground connection prior to restarting it. If the lower ground was disconnected and the upper ground was high resistance and the battery positive terminal was not passing amperage I'm wondering what the Delphi ECU/ECM was seeing for input voltage while the battery connection couldn't provide enough amps for the starter - it had to be way low - if low enough it could have damaged it or caused it to go into a limp home or a protected minimum operating fuel & ignition schedule, or low voltage may have just scrambled it's electronic brain. As mentioned earlier a swap in good Delphi ECU/ECM would eliminate that possibility if oil pressure check is OK but I'd still check the crank position sensor it's just inboard of the stator cover and depending on what was used to guide the cover into position against the magnetic pull it could have been hit or partially damaged - check all wires, connectors, cables, clean grounds first. Having absolute known good items is the secret to troubleshooting, not dreaming up possibilities - establish the know good items then expand into the possibilities - not the other way around.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
My PV came in today and I did a log and sent to Ron for analysis. I don't know too much about reading it but the bike did go to near 6000 RPM when I started it to take the log. So I guess I should specify ive never tried to take it to 6k when starting the bike in the garage, just when riding it, it has always felt sluggish since I reassembled it and would always just cutout at 4k and not go any higher on RPM, to go faster I have had to shift up and then once again stop at 4k RPM. Ive never made it out of third since reinstalling the covers and normally at that point it is extremely hot and I just head back to the garage realizing it isn't fixed yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Streetrodracer, when looking at the log I checked the voltage and it looked very good, over 12-13 volts the whole time the bike was running. As I was stating it did hit 6000 RPM on the tach while I was running the log, it just wont go over that when riding. Next step is to check oil pressure on Monday when my adapter comes in.
 

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Sounds good Lapoza so yea I'm thinking IF any damage was done to the installed tune and/or the Delphi ECU/ECM it was when you had the starting issue and the bad positive battery connection - that's when it received probably very low voltage so the fact the voltage is OK now is good news and makes sense. So yea with no load it revs up higher just not under a moving load on the bike - that also makes sense, I thought it wouldn't get past 4000 Rpm static but either way obviously that's a sign it's not getting proper fuel or speed signal for the engine to accelerate. So did you ride it then after your static PV log and did it go over previous 4000 to 6000 Rpm now ? When I bought my R Model it wouldn't rev past 6000 Rpm, it would stutter and fall on it's face - I told the seller no sale if we couldn't fix that with the Dobeck fuel controller - I thought it was lean but actually it was pig fat rich and that was the problem, caused by removal of open pipes and install of the stock exhaust system by the previous owner, who didn't re-trim pig rich fuel tune. Adjusted it, presto - right to 9000 Rpm, so fuel scheduling can definitely cause these problems - if I had to guess I'd say yours sounds very lean due to overheating also but timing could be improper as well - correct the loaded tune, see what you got, go from there. Clean the big ground and check all connectors & wiring ( if you haven't already ) for another couple good known items. I think you're closing in on the problem. (y) ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #89
I got a power vision in for the bike Friday and sent some data logs to Ron, My TPS voltage was high and I adjusted it down to .47 which is as low as I can get it to go. Today at some point my OP sending unit will be in and once I get that installed I will run the bike and verify correct oil pressure. Providing that is ok then I can test ride it and do a data log to see what is going on with the bike when I'm riding it at the 4000 RPM range. Hopefully the PV will show some type of indication where my problem is at
 

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Sounds like a great plan ! hopefully you're OK on the proper oil pressure and you won't have to disassemble it again - if so you know where the problem may be, the stuck relief valve but at least no metal in the oil - Ron's real knowledgeable on the tuning so if it's that with his help ( and maybe others here ) you can get that good enough to, if nothing else, eliminate that as the cause. Is there anything else you can think of ( like the battery + terminal problem ) that may have occurred, you may have noticed or you had disturbed when you worked on it ? Run the engine for the O/P test and ride the bike the absolute minimum to determine if the problem is still there, as overheating can really damage an otherwise good engine - GOOD LUCK ! (y) :D
 

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Sounds like a great plan ! hopefully you're OK on the proper oil pressure and you won't have to disassemble it again - if so you know where the problem may be, the stuck relief valve but at least no metal in the oil - Ron's real knowledgeable on the tuning so if it's that with his help ( and maybe others here ) you can get that good enough to, if nothing else, eliminate that as the cause. Is there anything else you can think of ( like the battery + terminal problem ) that may have occurred, you may have noticed or you had disturbed when you worked on it ? Run the engine for the O/P test and ride the bike the absolute minimum to determine if the problem is still there, as overheating can really damage an otherwise good engine - GOOD LUCK ! (y) :D
Stock calibration and no O2 sensors on this bike so other then viewing all the senors in play and injector pulse widths not much to do there. Same cal as before, so that can be ruled out. What the ECM is doing with it is more the game plan for now. Hoping, something really off in the logs might point to the issue especially if attempts to be ridden in the no go zone beyond 4k. Time will tell.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #92
I ran the bike with the oil gauge hooked up, at idle upon starting it jumped to 90 psi after a few minutes of running it drop down to 50 psi. After another minute or so the oil pressure dropped to 40 but there was also air bubbles in the line, at this point the cooling pump and pipes were showing around 190 to 200 with my temperature gun. I decided to rev the bike up to around 2 to 3000 RPM and as soon as I did the oil pressure jumped above 100 psi, I cannot see that this is a good thing.

After a couple times revving the bike up, it just died for no reason. When I tries to restart it the negative terminal on the battery started smoking, I already clean that terminal but it’s not a stock Harley battery so I will probably get a Harley battery so that it mounts correctly to the terminals. But I do not think the battery has anything to do with the engine problems I’m having, with the bike oil pressure getting over 100 psi as soon as I hit 3000 RPM it seems to me like my oil relief valve is not working at all And maybe that is my problem?
 

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Discussion Starter #93
Also Ron, I forgot to mention I was able to calibrate the tps voltage to .47 volts at idle
 

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The smoking coming from the negative bat terminal suggests it is not properly connected. You suggested that it was not mounted correctly so that could be your problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
I’ve just read a lot of posts and don’t see anyone who’s oil has went beyond 90. Brand new gauge hooked up to a sandwich style sender between the oil filter and bike. It’s easily hitting 110 psi when hot. And the bike acts extremely unhappy trying to go above 3000 psi once the OP spikes. I’m thinking something has happened when reassembling although this still doesn’t explain the engine getting extremely hot. 200 degrees at idle and the fans don’t seem to come on until it gets over 210. This is based off using a temp gun to measure the coolant tubes and water pump cover. I have a coolant temp gauge but haven’t installed it yet. That’s next.
 

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The Hawk
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Pull that oil pump off and take it apart to see what's going with it. It's under the clutch cover and pretty easy to get off and disassemble.

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Yep that's the next step. The last time I had 100 psi my engine locked up. The pressure relief is stuck for sure. It dont take much to hang it up. The battery connection smoking could be high amp draw from cranking a engine thats trying to lock up. A very high drag in engine which may cause it to shut down at idle. The engine temp is normal. Sounds like you should look at the cam journals.
 

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Based on the latest pressure behaviour, yup, pump relief valve issue and the hotter oil leak rate seems high also , since the oil temp in the test should not have reached normal 195ish area yet.. Based on the one log you sent and I asked if the cams were stock or not, I detected a higher MAP value then I thought was normal for stock and also IAC steps more then normal. I let the MAP values slide as I have no reference for the 1130 cams but the map is quite a bit higher then the 1250 cams. I think the pump issue is a byproduct of another problem. That being the engine is on the verge of seizing. The hotter it gets the worse it binds up. This is the only thing that can explain overheating and lack of higher rpms and the fact the IAC runs out of room to keep it idling when hot. It just runs out of room to provide enough air to do so. I think a log would show, in this state with the IAC trying to keep a bound up engine running the KPA value from the MAP sensor will be way up as well as the load to keep running has increased from binding up in the engine. Pump needs to be addressed but I suspect the pump issue started from deeper in the engine to bind up the relief valve in the first place. As for the starter, if the engine is binding up, it will require much more load to crank it over and much more amperage draw, which will show up any weaker connections.
If you can do a log up to the same point where it's hot as in the last test, pretty sure the data will support engine starting to seize up with the IAC and MAP values. I think you know the bad news at that point?
Ron
 

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Well at least it has and probably has had oil pressure all along - so that's why no metal in oil filter. O/P relief valve is supposed to open at 88 PSI but also O/P is supposed to be at 43-94 PSI at 3000 RPM @ 158 degrees engine operating temp but that's also using the H-D adapter at the O/P sender pickup point. So where your sandwich pickup is installed it's maybe a higher reading ?, again high O/P alone can't be causing the engine to have internal drag and overheat unless it's locking up due to a prior spun bearing or two which also could cause high O/P but with no metal in the oil if that were the case the engine may be at the early stages of failure & still be savable. Pulling the oil pump is probably a good thing to do AFTER rechecking O/P one more time at the correct pickup location IMHO. I still think something else may be the part of the problem oil does cool the engine but it sounds like it's getting hot FAST and unless NO oil is making it thru the engine it alone cant be the entire problem. What oil filter you have on there ? Where did it come from ? Are both cylinder pipes the same temp ?
 

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Discussion Starter #100
Well at least it has and probably has had oil pressure all along - so that's why no metal in oil filter. O/P relief valve is supposed to open at 88 PSI but also O/P is supposed to be at 43-94 PSI at 3000 RPM @ 158 degrees engine operating temp but that's also using the H-D adapter at the O/P sender pickup point. So where your sandwich pickup is installed it's maybe a higher reading ?, again high O/P alone can't be causing the engine to have internal drag and overheat unless it's locking up due to a prior spun bearing or two which also could cause high O/P but with no metal in the oil if that were the case the engine may be at the early stages of failure & still be savable. Pulling the oil pump is probably a good thing to do AFTER rechecking O/P one more time at the correct pickup location IMHO. I still think something else may be the part of the problem oil does cool the engine but it sounds like it's getting hot FAST and unless NO oil is making it thru the engine it alone cant be the entire problem. What oil filter you have on there ? Where did it come from ? Are both cylinder pipes the same temp ?
Ive had the oil filter that was on it, I left it on when reassembling the bike because the previous owner said the oil had been changed recently. when I got the bike reassembled from powder coat and it didn't run right I drained the oil and changed it, also took off the oil filter, which is the one I cut open for the pictures. put a brand new filter from Harley on the bike, and then yesterday when I added the oil sender I replaced that filter with another new oil filter from Harley. My buddy thought it might have a slight misfire which I didn't noticed yesterday after adjusting the TPS voltage, but I can run it at idle again today and just see what the exhaust pipe temps are at the cylinders to verify that.
 
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