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Now I think we're onto something ! I saw recently an hour meter pickup wire that was pinched beneath a mounting bracket and stopped it at the time it had accrued when it was last worked on - pointed a finger right at the last guy to work on the system. :LOL: Did you inspect the wiring to the sensor ? If not you might want to let H-D know it might be cut or pinched or even another wire that might have been disturbed, disconnected, cut, pinched, oil or coolant contaminated that could affect the fuel injection system. Obviously those codes are a finger pointing in the general direction of the culprit, but are they the root cause or a symptom of the root cause ? Just gotta keep inspecting, following the leads. Drain the oil filter and cut it open when you can if nothing else it'll give you piece of mind that the engines not failing internally.
That HD ecm is capable of many unseen things. It might be capping the rpm to 4k ish based on the very lean heat generating mixture. Wasn't that long ago it was discovered it can run WB sensors and all you needed was to unlock the code. TTS and PV can do that. I honestly feel it hit failsafe mode. Something next to nobody could ever experience, until now maybe?
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #42
That HD ecm is capable of many unseen things. It might be capping the rpm to 4k ish based on the very lean heat generating mixture. Wasn't that long ago it was discovered it can run WB sensors and all you needed was to unlock the code. TTS and PV can do that. I honestly feel it hit failsafe mode. Something next to nobody could ever experience, until now maybe?
Ron
the first thing my buddy told me was he thought it was running in a fail safe mode, but when I mentioned it to Harley they said the Vrod didn't have a fail safe mode. If its an electrical issue I have a feeling im going to have to pick it up from Harley and find it myself. Its just so freaking hot in my garage, it doesn't get under 100 degrees in there until midnight at which point im normally too tired to work on it for more than an hour.
 

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Yea it sucks this time of year down here in Central FL. it's like the winter is for Ron up in Canada but it's 98% humidity, 90-100 degrees and lightening, thinking about raining or raining. I really want to install one of those garage A/C systems - maybe next year - In any event the other question that popped into mind is did any of the coolant get into one of the spark plug bores ? My daughter had a Ford Explorer with the 4.6 V8 and it ran like absolute crap - I found water got into the recessed spark plug bores, shorted out a coil in two cylinders, one also with a bad rusty inop. spark plug. Replaced all that, engine ran unbelieveably well. Just a thought. It could be running in some fail safe or limp home mode, I seriously doubt the dealer knows that for sure as lots of time they just throw B/S in the breeze. Most malfunctioning fuel injection systems will continue to let the engine run in some restricted mode to let you cross the road before you get run over by a Semi - no sense in saving the F.I. system from any possible damage but killing the vehicles passengers. Was the check engine light on at any point as Ron pointed out ?
 

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the first thing my buddy told me was he thought it was running in a fail safe mode, but when I mentioned it to Harley they said the Vrod didn't have a fail safe mode. If its an electrical issue I have a feeling im going to have to pick it up from Harley and find it myself. Its just so freaking hot in my garage, it doesn't get under 100 degrees in there until midnight at which point im normally too tired to work on it for more than an hour.
You would think Harley would be able to find the problem. I am starting to think ecm issue. Or it maybe not seeing some kind of signal. They should try a test ecm and see what happens first. Its far to expensive to try and track down the issue there. Any way thats what I would recommend first, to save time and money. One last thing I know the air cleaner or the intake is not obstructed?
 

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Yea it sucks this time of year down here in Central FL. it's like the winter is for Ron up in Canada but it's 98% humidity, 90-100 degrees and lightening, thinking about raining or raining. I really want to install one of those garage A/C systems - maybe next year - In any event the other question that popped into mind is did any of the coolant get into one of the spark plug bores ? My daughter had a Ford Explorer with the 4.6 V8 and it ran like absolute crap - I found water got into the recessed spark plug bores, shorted out a coil in two cylinders, one also with a bad rusty inop. spark plug. Replaced all that, engine ran unbelieveably well. Just a thought. It could be running in some fail safe or limp home mode, I seriously doubt the dealer knows that for sure as lots of time they just throw B/S in the breeze. Most malfunctioning fuel injection systems will continue to let the engine run in some restricted mode to let you cross the road before you get run over by a Semi - no sense in saving the F.I. system from any possible damage but killing the vehicles passengers. Was the check engine light on at any point as Ron pointed out ?
Frozen north, my ass. Like 15+ days at least of 100* weather and humidity kicking in more each day. Too hot to strap on the gear and ride lately. Don't know how you guys can handle the heat?
Ron
 

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Ron our summer is like your winter time to stand down on the M/C riding and do something else -for us it's boating with a beer, a babe and a Bimini top for you it's probably snowmobiling with a bourbon, a babe and a heated seat. Down here you gotta get out early before the worst heat or wait until after the daily afternoon tropical deluge then it's nice - Vented jackets, open helmet visors fingerless gloves all help. So Anyway the problem with Lapoza's bike was somehow self induced during Mx - it happens to all of us but something was disturbed, disconnected, contaminated, pinched, pin pushed back in a connector, shorted etc. Quick question - where does the engine get it's Rpm speed signal for the ECU ? Does any wiring coming from the stator affect anything other than the charging of the battery ? What else was disconnected ? Inspect EVERYTHING. TWICE.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
I just noticed I typed in the code wrong, I wrote it down in notes on my iPhone but got the numbers backwards. The codes I got the last time I rode was not the IAT sensor, it was P0118. Engine High temperature: P0118 Current ET sensor open/high 4.22 DTC P01 17, P0118. That and the U1255 code.

I will be calling Harley here in about an hour to see if they've found anything yet, I don't want them spending 10 hours of labor on it just to tell me they can't figure it out.
 

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Lapoza - I think the overheating may be a symptom of the root problem - first thing they should try to fix is why it won't rev beyond 4000 Rpm when cold - that is probably causing the heat buildup - is there any way the ignition timing was disturbed ? That would cause this issue - the manual says overheating can be caused by faulty MAP manifold absolute pressure or CKP crank position sensor - check wiring & connectors at both but since you had the left side alternator cover off and that's where the CKP crank position / speed pickup is mounted on the main case I would be suspect of possible damage there during your side cover removal / re-installation - if the ECU is getting a bad crank position / speed signal that will throw off the computed ignition timing and probably the fuel injection scheduling at the same time - garbage in, garbage out - and the symptom of improper engine operation, overheating and a code to boot. Worth looking at before as you say they spend 10 man-hours of labor tripping on their shoelaces trying to figure it out -
 

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I just noticed I typed in the code wrong, I wrote it down in notes on my iPhone but got the numbers backwards. The codes I got the last time I rode was not the IAT sensor, it was P0118. Engine High temperature: P0118 Current ET sensor open/high 4.22 DTC P01 17, P0118. That and the U1255 code.

I will be calling Harley here in about an hour to see if they've found anything yet, I don't want them spending 10 hours of labor on it just to tell me they can't figure it out.
That makes more sense, It's seeing overheated with a dash of confusion on the ECM part. :cool:
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Lapoza - I think the overheating may be a symptom of the root problem - first thing they should try to fix is why it won't rev beyond 4000 Rpm when cold - that is probably causing the heat buildup - is there any way the ignition timing was disturbed ? That would cause this issue - the manual says overheating can be caused by faulty MAP manifold absolute pressure or CKP crank position sensor - check wiring & connectors at both but since you had the left side alternator cover off and that's where the CKP crank position / speed pickup is mounted on the main case I would be suspect of possible damage there during your side cover removal / re-installation - if the ECU is getting a bad crank position / speed signal that will throw off the computed ignition timing and probably the fuel injection scheduling at the same time - garbage in, garbage out - and the symptom of improper engine operation, overheating and a code to boot. Worth looking at before as you say they spend 10 man-hours of labor tripping on their shoelaces trying to figure it out -

I just got off the phone with the dealership. Tech looked up the codes, historic, so then he started it, tried to rev past 4000 and it wouldn't go, so he went on a test ride but only made it 100 yards when he heard a clanking and the oil light started flickering, so he killed it and pushed it back to the shop.

They are telling me he wants to tear open the engine and it could take 1-2 months to fix depending on what parts he finds is bad and how long it is taking them to order parts at the moment.

I never got anywhere near that CKP sensor and definitely noticed it when working on the bike. However, Im probably going to have them trailer the bike back to my house and first step is to rig up some type of oil pressure gauge just to see what pressures I have for oil. I have a bad feeling I missed some sand blast media and that oil pressure relief valve got stuck open. I just want to verify I have pressure as step 1. Then start getting into other issues, drain the coolant again, pull the radiator to make sure nothing clogged it, take off and clean the oil pump and relief valve if I don't see good pressure, and once I know those are both ok then move on to the electrical issues.

Ive just got this bad feeling somehow I missed sandblast media even though I was extremely cautions in rinsing it all out. I guess on the plus side I've found used engines in the $1300 range online which is still cheaper than what Harley will probably charge me to work on it
 

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H-D is so predictable on the V Rod troubleshooting. Yes, check the oil pressure that's really good but short of the engine main bearings seizing up it does NOT explain why it won't rev beyond 4000 Rpm when cold - if the oil lights not on when you start it up or rev it to its 4000 rpm limit cold something else is wrong - all proper oil pressure affects is to take the slack out of the backside of the timing chain, low oil pressure just can't limit Rpm but if it's ridden with low O/P and the light on yea, it will overheat and be very noisy. Again, I'd cut the old oil filter open first - if it's full of metal you're just wasting your time on everything else - get an engine. I bought a fuel injected Kawasaki Ficht direct fuel injected 3 cyl. 2 stroke jet ski with only 80 hours on it for $ 1000 with the trailer - it ran like total crap - seller was told it needed a new main ignition & fuel computer for $ 1800 by 2 dealers - I took it home, inspected the crank sensor and guess what - intermittent connection - wire broken but connecting enough for it to run. Just soldered the wire as a quick test, ran absolutely perfect. Just saying go for the simple things first - and if there's metal in that filter that's a full stop right there. The real question is did it ever run properly immediately after you reassembled it ?
 

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Discussion Starter #54
H-D is so predictable on the V Rod troubleshooting. Yes, check the oil pressure that's really good but short of the engine main bearings seizing up it does NOT explain why it won't rev beyond 4000 Rpm when cold - if the oil lights not on when you start it up or rev it to its 4000 rpm limit cold something else is wrong - all proper oil pressure affects is to take the slack out of the backside of the timing chain, low oil pressure just can't limit Rpm but if it's ridden with low O/P and the light on yea, it will overheat and be very noisy. Again, I'd cut the old oil filter open first - if it's full of metal you're just wasting your time on everything else - get an engine. I bought a fuel injected Kawasaki Ficht direct fuel injected 3 cyl. 2 stroke jet ski with only 80 hours on it for $ 1000 with the trailer - it ran like total crap - seller was told it needed a new main ignition & fuel computer for $ 1800 by 2 dealers - I took it home, inspected the crank sensor and guess what - intermittent connection - wire broken but connecting enough for it to run. Just soldered the wire as a quick test, ran absolutely perfect. Just saying go for the simple things first - and if there's metal in that filter that's a full stop right there. The real question is did it ever run properly immediately after you reassembled it ?
No right from the get go it wouldn’t go over 4000 rpm. I rode it about 4 miles and it died half way through that test ride. I had to leave it at a gas station for an hour to cool down and then go back and ride it very slow back to the house. I’m at the dealership now. They’re saying 8,000 to rebuild the engine if it needed it. No way to check the oil pressure either because “they’ve never needed to”. So I’m having it brought back. Going to get another oil filter and cut open the original and the one that’s on it now
 

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Good plan you can buy a whole 'nother V Rod for that 8K money. I hate to say it but they're almost useless, no way to check O/P and yea, they probably never did it even though they are supposed to have the O/P direct reading adapter as a dealer. Get all the historical codes it threw from them so you've got that for your troubleshooting money and ask them why they'd even try to ride a broken bike with an engine that won't rev above 4000 Rpm - I see absolutely no reason to ride it at all until that's resolved because it's just putting the engine in more peril under an actual load - if its got a crank position sensor causing ignition & fuel injection problems and /or an oil pressure issue that absolutely needs to be fixed FIRST before it's ridden. But before that, yes open the oil filter up & inspect it for metal - sharp chisel a slot and if you have metal shears you can stick them in it & snip the can right off - or chisel all the way around it takes 2 minutes -do it on the floor in a pan carefully with gloves & let us know - whichever filter the engine ran the longest with inspect first, then the other if the first is clean - take photos if you see debris & let us know - Good luck !
 

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Discussion Starter #57
I would not start it again. Pull pan and inspect engine. Oil pump etc.
Well they said it was knocking and I rode it around the house to the garage. Here is a video of it at idle. Except for the misfire at idle I don’t hear any knocking sound they were talking about. This is the last time it will run for awhile. Starting with the oil filters first and then moving on to the oil pump and crank sensor

 

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Discussion Starter #58
I would not start it again. Pull pan and inspect engine. Oil pump etc.
Ive pulled the oil pan twice now and not saw any debris in the oil whatsoever. Ive blow an engine before from running low on oil in a car I had saw all the metal in it when I drained it, nothing like that the 3 times ive drained the oil in the bike, but... maybe it all got trapped in the filter, ill find out soon enough and post pictures
 

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Well they said it was knocking and I rode it around the house to the garage. Here is a video of it at idle. Except for the misfire at idle I don’t hear any knocking sound they were talking about. This is the last time it will run for awhile. Starting with the oil filters first and then moving on to the oil pump and crank sensor

I can't hear rod knock in the vid. Don't know if you have a slipper clutch but the ramps can make a similar sound at idle. Some more then others. Personally, I think the dealer is pretty useless in the v rod department. Anyone with a clue in service will check for correct oil pressure. As mentioned, they must have the oil pressure adapter and gauge as part of the tool plan to perform service. Ok, humor me here. Remove the air filter cover and filter. Open the throttle and view the action of the butterflies. Does the front one track the rear? Had a bud try to tune one once and it had a broken front shaft. This screws the tps up and fueling.
Ron
 

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I can't hear rod knock in the vid. Don't know if you have a slipper clutch but the ramps can make a similar sound at idle. Some more then others. Personally, I think the dealer is pretty useless in the v rod department. Anyone with a clue in service will check for correct oil pressure. As mentioned, they must have the oil pressure adapter and gauge as part of the tool plan to perform service. Ok, humor me here. Remove the air filter cover and filter. Open the throttle and view the action of the butterflies. Does the front one track the rear? Had a bud try to tune one once and it had a broken front shaft. This screws the tps up and fueling.
Ron
I can't hear rod knock in the vid. Don't know if you have a slipper clutch but the ramps can make a similar sound at idle. Some more then others. Personally, I think the dealer is pretty useless in the v rod department. Anyone with a clue in service will check for correct oil pressure. As mentioned, they must have the oil pressure adapter and gauge as part of the tool plan to perform service. Ok, humor me here. Remove the air filter cover and filter. Open the throttle and view the action of the butterflies. Does the front one track the rear? Had a bud try to tune one once and it had a broken front shaft. This screws the tps up and fueling.
Ron

 
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