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Discussion Starter #21
PV will not read oil pressure . There's no signal source in the bike for that. At those temps, it would not be too unusual for the light to flicker at idle. Oil temp closely follows the coolant temp. I guess checking the venting and fuel pressure is out of the question, huh?
Ron
No it’s up next if I can get the rental kit tonight. By the time I got to work on it last night all the auto stores were closed
 

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Oil pressure, Yeah unless its trying to lock up. Thats not the issue. If the temp light not coming on. that should mean its not overheating. At the same time I thought u said the triple sprocket was ok. These are usually symptoms. Engine temp and oil pressure. Did u check fuel like Ron said and tank vent? Oh I see my reply was late.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Oil pressure, Yeah unless its trying to lock up. Thats not the issue. If the temp light not coming on. that should mean its not overheating. At the same time I thought u said the triple sprocket was ok. These are usually symptoms. Engine temp and oil pressure. Did u check fuel like Ron said and tank vent?
going to go check the fuel vent now and see if I can get a gauge to check fuel pressure
 

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If there was ANY DEBRIS missed from the powder coating. It is possible that the the oil pump relief valve could be stuck partially open causing a oil pressure drop, due to a small blasting bead getting into the oil system and through the pump. I have a pump that did exactly that in my collection and still can't get the piston out. It also caused a flickering oil pressure light that was confirmed with a mechanical gauge. I would check your oil pressure with a gauge to verify oil light flicker. I also concur that it's not the triple bolt due to your temp readings.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I was finally able to track down a pressure gauge last night and did a test, upon turning on the key the pressure goes to 50 psi, once started it jumps to 60 psi. While running regardless of RPM the pressure stays steady at 60 PSI. This is making me think I might have what JJrod said, some left over sandblasting media that could have caused the oil pump relief valve to stick open
 

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I was finally able to track down a pressure gauge last night and did a test, upon turning on the key the pressure goes to 50 psi, once started it jumps to 60 psi. While running regardless of RPM the pressure stays steady at 60 PSI. This is making me think I might have what JJrod said, some left over sandblasting media that could have caused the oil pump relief valve to stick open
Perfect fuel psi. Next would be to gauge the oil pressure. This requires removing the bottom air box and adding a gauge hose and gauge in place of the idiot light sensor. 1/4 NPT, I think it is but most test kits come with several adapters. On the later model pumps it will start up at around 60-65 cold oil and hot idle oil should be in the 30psi range. If the relief valve is stuck to a more open position , it will be well below 30psi, as that relief valve should be closed at idle to keep the pressure up.
Ron
 

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Lapoza when you had the alternator cover coated did you remove the stator ? That's where the debris hides sometimes - Have you looked at the oil in the sump for metallic debris ? And have you chiseled open the oil filter to see if any metal flakes or debris are inside ? Low oil pressure itself can't slow the engine down on it's own - unless it's simply mechanically seizing up IMHO, so I hope it's not too late for you -
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I didn't see any debris at all in the oil and ive changed it twice to be sure. Harley came and picked up the bike this morning, I am going to order an oil pressure gauge and mount it once I get the bike back. The fact it does run somewhat decent until it gets hot gives me hope that its something simple and not engine killing.

StreetRodRacer, yes I removed the stator and cable and rinsed that out very well before reinstalling.
 

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That's good you removed the stator before blasting and cleaned it before install - I think a couple guys left the stator on the cover and that's where the blasting media hid out till it got flushed out by the oil into the engine - :cautious: Is there any way a small section of shop towel or a cap was used in the water pump galleys and got left in there causing a partial blockage ? Just grasping at straws here but clearly it was coinciding with your work with the side covers R&R - like Ron said check last mx performed. Also what about coolant Thermostat - is it stuck closed like the possibility of the oil pressure relief valve being stuck open ? Did you try running it without the 'stat ? ( Takes a tool to remove it but you can make your own ) Just sounds like it's not circulating coolant at the correct rate to keep engine temp in range - unless the engine is seizing up and creating excessive heat due to lack of oil pressure but I would think it would be hard to turn over after it dies if that were the case. If you saved a used oil filter lay it on the floor in a pan and chisel the filter can around the base to inspect the pleats for metal debris - wear gloves easy to get cut doing it. Good Luck let us know if the H-D dealer fix's it !
 

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Only real test for a thermostat is throw it in boiling water. It should be fully open once it reaches 212*. It will just start opening at about 180+ if you have a means to measure the water temp during heat up. A candy thermometer will work.
Ron
 

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Yea good question KRRob you'd think with a temp reading of 225 & 240 degrees the light would be on so where does that coolant sensor pickup its reading on the head ? Also how is steam coming off the heads ? is something leaking ?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I think the steam coming off the heads was maybe left over coolant from when I filled it plus I painted the pipes black with engine paint before I put the powder coated covers over them. it hasn't steamed the last few time I tested it. I took the thermostat off the bike and into Harley and they looked at it and it was fairly easy to push the plunger in by hand which made the guy at the counter think it didn't need changed, no I did not try riding it without the thermostat in the bike.

I also didn't plug the water pump cavities with anything when I took it apart, just covered the bike in plastic while I waited for the parts to get back. Knight Rod Bob the temp light has never came on yet. I just left the Harley dealership and the tech was getting ready to start working on it, he was finishing up the bike before mine.

I still have the old oil filter but its been laying in the oil pan with the original oil I drained from the bike. I was thinking the heat and lack of acceleration over 4k rpm was due to oil, which was going to be my next step to install an oil pressure gauge. The reason I am thinking it is an oil circulation issue is it won't even go over 4000 RPM from a cold start, before I even feel heat come off the engine. If it were a water cooling issue I feel it would only happen once the engine got hot. My guess at this point is the engine is getting enough oil not to lock up but once it gets warm it just flat out doesn't want to run anymore. If it dies at a stop sign and I start it back up it will then run at idle fine, but if I try to actually drive it, it just shuts down again. Since putting it back together once it gets hot and I notice the problem isn't fixed I shut it down and always stay within pushing distance of my house.

Im hoping to get a call from the dealership this afternoon at least stating they have an idea what the problem is.
 

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I think the steam coming off the heads was maybe left over coolant from when I filled it plus I painted the pipes black with engine paint before I put the powder coated covers over them. it hasn't steamed the last few time I tested it. I took the thermostat off the bike and into Harley and they looked at it and it was fairly easy to push the plunger in by hand which made the guy at the counter think it didn't need changed, no I did not try riding it without the thermostat in the bike.

I also didn't plug the water pump cavities with anything when I took it apart, just covered the bike in plastic while I waited for the parts to get back. Knight Rod Bob the temp light has never came on yet. I just left the Harley dealership and the tech was getting ready to start working on it, he was finishing up the bike before mine.

I still have the old oil filter but its been laying in the oil pan with the original oil I drained from the bike. I was thinking the heat and lack of acceleration over 4k rpm was due to oil, which was going to be my next step to install an oil pressure gauge. The reason I am thinking it is an oil circulation issue is it won't even go over 4000 RPM from a cold start, before I even feel heat come off the engine. If it were a water cooling issue I feel it would only happen once the engine got hot. My guess at this point is the engine is getting enough oil not to lock up but once it gets warm it just flat out doesn't want to run anymore. If it dies at a stop sign and I start it back up it will then run at idle fine, but if I try to actually drive it, it just shuts down again. Since putting it back together once it gets hot and I notice the problem isn't fixed I shut it down and always stay within pushing distance of my house.

Im hoping to get a call from the dealership this afternoon at least stating they have an idea what the problem is.
The temp sensor is in the thermostat housing and the same one that triggers the fans. Temp light comes on at 243 - 245 ish. So the bonehead at the dealership just pushed on the thermostat as a test? That proves nothing. Boiling water is the only way to test it. Also the coolant can be at the cap showing full but there can be air in the system. Did you do an air bleed in the system when you filled it.? I find it odd it won't go over 4k even if the temp light would come on. Something else going on.
Ron
 

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The fact that the engine won't rev beyond 4000 rpm initially has got to be something else - if it was oil related it should rev higher than that until it hits the cold engine RPM limit which is like 6000 - 7000 Rpm - If it's lack of oil flow and it's actually slowing the engine down initially that's probably because it's partially seized with high internal friction but if it idles fine I don't believe that's the case. Is there any way you disconnected a fuel injector sensor, tuner or ECU electrical harness during your work with the side and water pump covers ? Sounds like it may be running very very lean, so that's why it's hot and won't accelerate - it doesn't have the fuel to do it - if so you might luck out and the engine won't be damaged - let us know what H-D says hopefully they have a guy that knows V Rods well enough to troubleshoot it -
 

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Discussion Starter #38
The fact that the engine won't rev beyond 4000 rpm initially has got to be something else - if it was oil related it should rev higher than that until it hits the cold engine RPM limit which is like 6000 - 7000 Rpm - If it's lack of oil flow and it's actually slowing the engine down initially that's probably because it's partially seized with high internal friction but if it idles fine I don't believe that's the case. Is there any way you disconnected a fuel injector sensor, tuner or ECU electrical harness during your work with the side and water pump covers ? Sounds like it may be running very very lean, so that's why it's hot and won't accelerate - it doesn't have the fuel to do it - if so you might luck out and the engine won't be damaged - let us know what H-D says hopefully they have a guy that knows V Rods well enough to troubleshoot it -
Well Im wondering since the AIT sensor keeps throwing a code possibly thats the issue, and I checked that last night with a multimeter and the sensor was responding correctly to heat being applied, but if its faulting out that from what ive read sends the default temp to the ECU of -40F. if the sensor is still good that would be a cabling issue
 

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Well Im wondering since the AIT sensor keeps throwing a code possibly thats the issue, and I checked that last night with a multimeter and the sensor was responding correctly to heat being applied, but if its faulting out that from what ive read sends the default temp to the ECU of -40F. if the sensor is still good that would be a cabling issue
Possible on the IAT. That U1255 code is of bigger concern and the two could be interrelated somehow. Normally, even if you unplug the IAT, you get a code but it runs half ass decent and would not hold you back over 4k. The ECM likey defaults to a richer fuel state if unplugged. If sensor or wiring was shorted it would run really lean. You might find this interesting. Note the failsafe mode. This could be the reason for the 4k limit and the extra heat in the engine.
What are the symptoms of the P0113 code?
  • The ECM will turn on the Check Engine Light and go into a failsafe mode.
  • Engine may not start as usual
  • Engine may run extra lean
  • Engine may have pre-ignition problems from lean burn conditions
Ron
 

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Now I think we're onto something ! I saw recently an hour meter pickup wire that was pinched beneath a mounting bracket and stopped it at the time it had accrued when it was last worked on - pointed a finger right at the last guy to work on the system. :LOL: Did you inspect the wiring to the sensor ? If not you might want to let H-D know it might be cut or pinched or even another wire that might have been disturbed, disconnected, cut, pinched, oil or coolant contaminated that could affect the fuel injection system. Obviously those codes are a finger pointing in the general direction of the culprit, but are they the root cause or a symptom of the root cause ? Just gotta keep inspecting, following the leads. Drain the oil filter and cut it open when you can if nothing else it'll give you piece of mind that the engines not failing internally.
 
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