[Rich Moran]

I don't believe loud pipes save squat. The only thing they accomplish is bringing uneeded attention from the law-enforcement types onto your head. Loud pipes might sound cool to some, but I think an even amount get pissed by them. Specially those who live or operate around concrete canyons.

Automobile manufacturers spend tons of $ on improving the quality of a quiet ride, sound systems, and hell, they are even putting TV's into cars. Mix in, cell phones, GPS, computers, anxious passengers and booze, and stunt flying ends up being safer than motorcycle riding.

Its learning the defensive manuevers required to stay alive, knowing what to look for in traffic, escape routes and how your bike will handle in extreme incidents you put it into. it is those fraction of seconds, where yoyr response to the systems on the bike for handling that a good percentage of time determine the outcome, hence BMW motorcycles with anti-lock brakes. One less thing the operator needs to worry about when the time comes for extreme situations. Even the Honolulu HPD cited the reason fro going from HD to BMW was the officers had an easier time in critical situations with the BMW and cited the anti-lock feature as being a determining factor in moving from HD to BMW. And these guys ride all day, every day for a living.

Taking the advanced MCSRC is another instrument that one should take, not think about it, but go do it. Even HD will give you a credit for the class for $50 that can be used for future purchase (must be a HOG member to get the bene) of product at your HD stealership or HOG renewal. Thats a deal, and to boot, ya just might learn something that could save your butt in an unforssen future incident.

Naw, the quiet v-rod to me is the ride of choice, the loud pipes, good for racing and performance if thats your thing.

 

[Sasquatch]

Mark,
I can't argue too much with what you state above or the quote from the AMA. I believe that they have spent money in the past trying to protect against restrictions but I don't like to back down on any "rights", e.g. be it gun control, noise restrictions, or otherwise because I believe we are an over regulated society as it is and this is one more battle. As an example; I'm a private pilot and I have to fight this same battle related to small airplanes disturbing these poor people that built homes around airports. Again, you try to take off at Vx (highest angle) to get height between you and the complainers then cut power and continue. This is still not enough for some people and they want the airport closed. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm already biased against people whom I consider whiners about anything and everything. I hear trucks going past my house, lets ban them too!! Just kidding.

Rich,
I can't disagree with what you say related to training and riding skills. You are correct. However, I still feel the same way about the loudness of the pipes though.

Dave,
Just yesterday I had my pipes over my shoulder ... Just kidding of course. However, I would like to state the following: While sound does get louder as the source approaches this is because of the fact that the source is getting closer and sound increases as a squared function as distance decreases; e.g. when the source is twice as close the sound is 4 times as loud; three times as close then 9 times as loud. Of course this works the opposite when the source is going the other direction and the sound level decreases exponentially. The doppler effect (shift) however has to do with the frequency of the sound, not the decibel level of the sound. Additionally, Albert Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity holds for all wavelengths, e.g. light, sound, etc. However, the one thing to note is the word relativity. The formula for the doppler shift is v/c = (lambda a - lambda b)/lambda b, therefore if I am on a motorcycle moving at 75 mph and the car in front of me is moving at 75 mph then the resultant doppler shift would be zero. v/c = (75 - 75)/75 No change in frequency. However, if I was traveling 5 mph faster than the car in front of me the sound waves in front would be compressed and the frequency would be higher and as I got closer the sound level would increase to the car at an exponential rate - the same as the train coming towards you just on a much lesser scale. Also, if you are traveling at 75 mph the sound level to you is the same as if you are traveling 80 mph, all other things being equal - if you could get the same rpms, etc. Now, your first statement that I joked about at the beginning of this is correct. Since we are routing the sound through the pipes, the sound is directed in a general direction, e.g. backwards. The above discussion holds true for a non-directional sound and I do not want to discount your statement related to directional sound. Therefore, everyone is correct in stating that all things being equal, the sound level to an observer behind the motorcycle is louder than the sound level to an observer the same distance in front if all three of you are traveling at the same speed relative to each other.

Therefore, you are correct. The Theory of Special Relativity applies to all matter, including motorcycles. My favorite part of it is as you approach the speed of light, mass becomes infinite and time slows down. It's kind of like when I'm at the dinner table eating.

Next, the relationship between sound and hearing loss. I also, besides enjoying physics, work in the environmental and safety field, including hearing tests, etc. While flying I wear a noise cancelling headset and when riding my motorcycle I wear ear plugs and a full face helmet. I'm tested yearly for hearing loss under our hearing conservation program and have so far not lost any hearing at any of the tested frequency ranges. If this were to change, then I would change my pipes back or eliminate some high noise level activities. I would especially like to be able to eliminate mowing the grass!!

Lastly, you're final statement is actually the crux of the matter. We have to look out for others who don't care. And we cannot prove that the pipes help or don't. Too many variables to determine if one thing (pipes, lights, color of paint, other drivers hearing, vision, etc.) is the cause of an accident. I only gave annecdotal evidence based on my riding. I may slap run over the next time I ride by a former loud pipe motorcycle rider who is now hard of hearing and driving a cage at 80. Who knows?

Y'all have a good day!! These posts are just too dang long!!
:2cents

 

[Sasquatch]

Rich,
I forgot. Stunt flying IS safer than riding motorcyles!!!

 

[Karlos]

Lil Mike,

Man, that is one well thouht out post!:notworthy

Thanks. It actually makes sense to me.

Objectively then, louder (and I didn't mean to imply ear bleeders, I think my terms of reference in the poll were bad) pipes will be more audible to drivers when you are in the most vulnerable proximity, and location relative to, the cage.

 

[Daniii]

If loud pipes work just once, and that time it is you, all arguments are moot. Just remember that we are invisible, and the cagers WANT to kill us.

 

[Sasquatch]

Karl,
You mean the baffle 'em with bullsh.. method works?
What I basically stated is, all other things being equal, A car directly behind you traveling the same direction at the same speed will hear what you hear, reduced for distance and obstructions. A car in front of you under the same conditions above will hear less than the car behind you because we have a directional sound source.

Now, a car sitting waiting to make a right turn (left in Australia?) will wait to do so until you can't avoid them irrespective of how much noise you make so driving skills and looking out for these idiots takes precedence (well, in all cases actually). But the folks in high speed traffic behind and to the side of you on an interstate SHOULD be able to hear you. The car in front, maybe not, but I can control how close I am to him.

Therefore, my opinion simplified (I know, I know this seems to go on forever):
1. Loud pipes probably help when traveling on an interstate with limited access due to the directional nature of the sound. Back and sides are covered. This covers the majority of my driving and I drive in the fast lane (when needed) to avoid merging incidents.
2. Loud pipes may not help on two lane roads with people able to turn directly in front of you. Front is not covered at the same level as back and sides.

Anecdotal evidence: Noone tailgates me, noone drives thier cage right next to me. I have more space while driving to make evasive manuvers, etc. that have been indicated as the only real way to prevent accidents. This is different than what I experienced before changing the pipes. Personally, I think we ought to get rid of all those dang cars. They get in my way and prevent my "right" to an unobstructed highway to ride my motorcycle!! If it weren't for those cars, I'd have the stock pipes still. Really, I didn't want to go faster. Y'all believe me don't ya??? Honestly, if I didn't think they helped some I would not have purchased them. This is my first loud bike, I have had a couple of Honda Magna's before and didn't feel the need for them and never had the close calls I have had on the V-Rod this past year. Note, that I lived in Mobile, AL at that time and traffic is not the same as Atlanta. But I HAVE noticed a difference in the space I'm given since I changed the pipes.

Danii,
You're correct!

 

[Super Kaz]

Big Mike,
Your Scaring me with your Big Ass Body and Brains!:notworthy
How do you do it?"

 

[Sasquatch]

Kaz,
I believe it's directly related to my mother and father having sex about 37 years ago.

 

[Super Kaz]

I'm not to sure about that.Are they small too?:goof

 

[vrodbcd]

I have the Samson Short Slashers and yes they are very loud. I haven't heard any louder yet. I love em. I also think that they do help peoples awareness of where you are in proximity to them. Those people may not find you right away which is partially the problem, but they are lookin. It is more important for us to be watching for everyone else.

 

[BobT]

Bluntly put..............
The heck with quiet.
1. I belch loud
2. I fart loud
3. I can hardly hear due to my job 'cause for years there was no such thing as hearing protection, So I talk loud too.
4. Ever turn the key while your vehicle was running because you cannot hear your nice new vehicle ? I buy only vehicles with tachometers for that very reason.
5. So , drive in my blind spot with your nice quiet bike and see where that gets you !
'nuff said ?
P.S. I check my blind spots or I would hurt someone,but how many deaf-a$$ people like me don't ? That is a chance I don't wanna take.
BobT

 

[Greg687]

Just one thing.... if loud noises did not help, then firetrucks, ambulances, and other emergency vehilces would NOT have sirens.

I can't wait to make my V-rod louder...not scary loud, just noticeable. I know I have noticed a motorcycle with loud pipes that I didnt see before.

I remember a study that showed that loud pipes didnt save lives, but then...you make a statistic say anything you want it to say (100% of people who eat carrots will die, therefore carrots are dangerous)
My guess on that study is that maybe people with loud pipes tend to ride a little more aggressively (not all, just the ones who were in the report), or maybe aggressive riders like loud pipes. Dunno, but I will still make mine louder.
Greg

 

[gar]

Before my V-Mods, I use to surprise people when I rolled up next to them. I remember being at a red light and another stock exhaust V-ROD rolled up beside me. Scared the he11 out of me because I didn't see or hear him till he was right next to me. Louder IS safer...

 

[hardly2]

I think Greg687 pretty well summed it up about the emergency vehicles, hell when you've got a bike thats as good looking as my v-rod, its got to sound good too. the stock pipes are a joke, hd should have put more chrome pieces on the bike with the money and time they spent on those heavy mufflers.

 

[tompn]

Someone was saying that the cage drivers are out to get us. It may very well seem that way (since we are all but invisible to them) but they also do a lot of running into each other - just look in the yellow pages under auto body repair.

I am of the opinion that more noise will not make you any safer. The best we can do is to keep aware and in a position that is less vunerable - be sure to watch those cross streets (and driveways) and stay out of blind spots (two very common danger locations).

Tom

 

[redbud]

Harley has to comply with exsiting laws. That is why they have to put the disclaimer in the cataloge. Screamin eagle 16 ga. and slip -fit are for race application only. Most of us including myself are in violation of the law when we install these or other aftermarket exhaust. I agree that we are over regulated but that's not going to stop them from triing to regulate use off the rode. We have to respect other peoples rights if we want to keep ours.

 

[redbud]

Bet nobody will like catilitic converters

 

[LENELSA]

Defensive,Defensive,Defensive.......:2cents

 

[KBOlsen]

I saw this thread and inwardly groaned.... "Oh geeze.. yet another Loud Pipes debate"... but I am impressed by the quality of the responses and arguments here (even though the physics and equations were making my eyeballs hurt).

Personally, I think loud (straight) pipes on the street are obnoxious and annoying, and like the "street stunnas" only serve to further alienate the general population.

 

[Maxitout]

Loud pipes save lives??

I am a certified MSF rider course instructor with 25 years of motorcycling behind me and I can say with some measure of accuracy that loud pipes will get the attention of another driver...IF:

1. They are beside or behind you
2. They don't have their windows rolled up
3. Their a/c fan isn't cranked all the way up
4. The radio isn't cranked up
5. They aren't on a cell phone

Doppler tests have shown that a motorcycle with loud, straight through pipes at cruising speed approaching the test meter does not register any more than a bike with stock pipes. The sound's moving away from you as the bike moves forward.

BUT.....they do sound way cool.