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SNAFU
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Discussion Starter #1
John,

First off, good numbers in the midrange, looks like some real improvements over base SE map.

Question, did they do anything other than full power pulls? Did he map the torque vs. RPM, the chart is over time?

Observations:

1. It's hard to make any conclusions based on the graph since it uses elapsed time instead of rpm but it looks like power dropped off quicker on the top end than the baseline. I see they added fuel from 7000 - 9000 @ 100% and I suspect that's why. Based on the runs I've done the motor likes it a bit leaner on that range with your combo. I actually take fuel away in the high rpms as did Frank Storms tuner and we both make ~116 hp.

2. They added a ton of fuel in the low and mid throttle positions relative to the fuel added at 100%. It shouldn't need that much. I expect you will be lucky to get 35 mpg cruising, probably less with this map. Without partial throttle pulls there's no way he can extrapolate those numbers.

(I'm working out a modified map based on yours that I'll post in a few minutes, you might want to try it on for size.)
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Here's what I think your bike needs ;) I'd suggest taking it with you if you get another oportunity to make a dyno run to see what it does. Since it mostly adds fuel you could load it without much risk but make sure you have a copy of what you posted so you can go back if it doesn't work for you.

 

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AMF
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423 Posts
mjw930,

Thanks for the info. I cannot answer your questions. I will not be taking it back to Frederick HD, they have the worst service I have ever experienced. A friend at work knows someone that dyno's bike and I will try to hookup with them sometime in the future.

I have emailed Dynojet because I cannot pull the map from the PC, the control center software says that the software is incompatible. I think it's because of the software level they used while making the map. Can I manually create a map from both the current and what you have suggested ??
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The map I made was with version 2.7.8.22 I don't know how they handle version compatibility. Sorry.
 

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AMF
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423 Posts
Did you create that map manually using the control center software ?
If you did I can create my map manually and save it right ?

I have little experience with the PC, easy enough to install but I am a little leary about making a change to the exsisting map without being able to save it. Cost me $175 for what I did get.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I wouldn't do anything until you can pull the map from your PCIII. You need to call the shop and find out what version of the PC software they used.

Yes, I created the map manually by simply editing the values in the -020 map I have here. You could do the same by simply taking the numbers on the printout and transferring then to a base map then saving it under a different name.

Download the map I attached to the previous post and see if you can load it into the PC software on you computer.
 

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Maps

G'day fellas.
So many of you are posting some good dyno charts, how about posting the maps in the EFI area so we can all share the experience?

Best wishes.

Ken.
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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1,471 Posts
You have two different kinds of software included with the Race Tuner package Okie. The tuning mode is where you actually can change AFR's, volumetric efficiencies, spark advance, warmup enrichment, idle rpm, cranking fuel, IAC warmup steps, and the tuning constants where you can change the rpm limits, the motor volume for when you upgrade to the BB kit :sinister: , change injectors, AND enable or disable the knock sensors.

You have a flat spot and what I believe Mark is asking for is to see if they used the other included software "Data Mode ECM diagnostic software". While on a run it will record many variables too long to write about but it will tell you at exactly what rpm value the knock sensors activate. I believe that probably they are acting up on your flat spot between 4000 - 5500.

I think that second program is one the coolest things you can get from a motorcycle with your clothes on.

I read the book but don't know shit. I'll post mine see if Mark can help me with it and get a final verdict on the JM performance values. MARK! What's your fee? It's easy enough to tinker with the software and I think you could do a better job over the internet than the tuner. I need second opinions, thirds, the more the better. Mark's will count as twenty.
 

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Color me Gone
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eduarpmd, reading your post never cease to amaze me. I hate to ask but what is your IQ? The rate at which you pickup and and learn information is unbelievable. One day your asking questions the next day your teaching the same subject. My hat is off to you my friend.

Max
 

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Ya Max I used to think he was Really Smart till he got those Pipe! ;)Ed, Would you Quit Saving Lives and Start Making Some Horse Power! :spank: :kaz:
 

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2,552 Posts
I need someone to explain the difference between STD horse power and SAE horse power. I was at a dyno shop today and he told me that he can show both and the STD horse power always shows to be higher. He showed me a V-Rod run with both. The STD was 117.5 hp and the SAE was 114.4 hp on the same bike just minutes apart.

Frank
 

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SNAFU
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Discussion Starter #12
Here you go :)

SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), USA. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 29.23 InHg (99 kPa) of dry air and 77 F (25°C). This SAE standard requires a correction for friction torque. Friction torque can be determined by measurements on special motoring dynamometers (which is only practical in research environments) or can be estimated. When estimates must be used, the SAE standard uses a default Mechanical Efficiency (ME) value of 85%. This is approximately correct at peak torque but not at other engine operating speeds. Some dynamometer systems use the SAE correction factor for atmospheric conditions but do not take mechanical efficiency into consideration at all (i.e. they assume a ME of 100%).

STD or STP. Another power correction standard determined by the SAE. This standard has been stable for a long time and is widely used in the performance industry. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 29.92 InHg (103.3 kPa) of dry air and 60 F (15.5°C). Because the reference conditions include higher pressure and cooler air than the SAE standard, these corrected power numbers will always be about 4 % higher than the SAE power numbers. Friction torque is handled in the same way as in the SAE standard.

ECE (European Community), Europe. The ECE standard is based on the European Directives. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 99 kPa (29.23 InHg) of dry air and 25°C (77 F). Friction torque is not taken into consideration at all.

DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm), Germany .The DIN standard is determined by the German automotive industry. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 101.3 kPa (29.33 InHg) of dry air and 20°C (68 F). With the advent of European legislation and standards, national standards such as the DIN (formerly widely used) are now less significant.
 

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Because the STD reference conditions include higher pressure and cooler air than the SAE standard, these corrected power numbers will always be about 4 % higher than the SAE power numbers.

So for a true comparison we should apply a factor of 1.04 or .96 depending on what direction we are going.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
If you read it carefully you'll also notice there's another factor called ME (Mechanical Efficiency). That could add (or subtract) another 15% leaving the total range of variance between dyno numbers in a range from 11% - 19%. In addition to those numbers there's the variable for atmoshperic conditions (current temp, humidity and pressure). These are typically measured in the room but if the air temp at the engine intake is heated because of stagnent air or engine heat then that number is wrong. I noticed a 20 deg difference between the ambient air temperature the dyno computer used and the measured air temp from the IAT (the datalog software is great). The dyno operator wouldn't change the variable in the dyno stating, "that's not the way we do it" :(

All in all you can see how easy it is to have up to a 20% variance in numbers simply based on calibrations. No wonder we see so many swings in numbers between bikes and dynos.
 

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109.99 HP
75.67 Torque

D and D Full System
Stage 1 Download
SE Filter - Cover On

Ron
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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1,471 Posts
And 17 days later I return to this thread, thought I had subscribed.

Thanks Max for the compliment. Don't know about the IQ. 98% SAT in math, they put me in college to take calculus, never took precalc, while in high school you take math for the consumer or something so you get laid before graduation, many times :2cents: . If dad wasn't an engineer and remembered all that crap I'd had an F but he got me an A. Physics is the best and we actually talk about it a lot here in this forum and you're pretty good at it yourself. Make me take hystory, hummanities, english or spanish lit and I'm the dumbest of the dumb. I hate those.

MJ, these guys don't let us play with their toy dynos, do they? Touchy, touchy! Just a $40,000 accelerometer, right? Not really but whatever, make him a "friend", then teach each other some stuff.
My guy with the ProFlow will now allow me to sit at his office with his computer, linked with the dyno downstairs, to play with the software and learn the windyn thing. They love beer and me too! We entered most of the V-Rod data manually. I do believe the calibration may be off a bit thus the lower numbers with this dyno :rolleyes: . I think what's important is the morphologies, that it's eddy current and the several other goodies, this particular ProFlow has the works. We became friends, not always possible, and we're learning a lot from each other :thumb: .

Kaz, you hurtin my feelings again :sad: ?
I'm making "some" horsepower :rolleyes: ! I'm a newbie, remember ;) ?
Now it's serious with the flux capacitor. Got me some middle east plutonium, cheap! You going down mister :tmbsdow: , you hear? You win I cut'chu I cut'chu deep! I love this movie crap. :rofl:
 

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2012 VRSCDX Dyno numbers after SERT, V&H Slip ons and K&N Hi FLow Air

2012 VRSCDX Dyno numbers after stage 1 work at Harley Davidson South Miami
 
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