[Hoopy Frood]

Hey All,

Minor issue with my "A"... it's an '02 with only 6,000 miles on it. I've had it for four months only. It's been great generally speaking, but it's also been pretty consistent with this one odd behavior:

If I come to a stop using "hard" braking (i.e. braking significantly more aggressivly than what you would do when coming to a stop in normal traffic), often I can't down shift easily.

I can press the shifter lever and it moves "fine" (it doesn't feel like it's dragging, binding or fighting the transmission). It's just when I press it, the transmission doesn't change gears. Various combinations of trying to shift 2 or 3 tries and/or cycling the clutch and/or rolling the bike a few inches forward sets things "right" and I can shift just fine.

I've never had any issues upshifting under any accelleration conditions.

I bought this from someone who always had it serviced at the dealer so it had H.D. oil in it... don't know if it was synthetic or not. I replaced it (it looked great for "used" oil, no shavings on the drain plug) with with a Valvoline Synth blend (go ahead and flame me) because I've used that for years in a lot of high-performance sport bikes and never had issues.

But the oil change did not affect this braking-hard-makes-it-difficult-to-dowshift thing. Does anyone have any ideas what might be going on?

P.S. I didn't know if this should go in the mechanical forum or the engine/transmission forum...

 

[Jeff]

Hoopy
I do not believe there is anything wrong.
I have had my '02 A since '02 and have 45,000 miles on it. I think I have occasionally experienced what you refer to, if I do not downshift along with braking when coming to a stop. Coming to a stop with the bike in 2nd I can get to first or neutral. Any higher gear and I might have to move a little or work the clutch to get it to change gears.

 

[vrodrjs]

Pretty normal actually.

 

[VrodG]

Try lubing the shifter and heim joint on the shifter rod.

 

[pecee]

you should be shifting into the lower gear while still moving .attempting to downshift while stationary is not a good idea.

 

[RustyG]

This has been normal operation for every bike I have owned in 35 years of riding. The bike needs to be moving to give the gears a chance to mate.
If hard braking downshifting without letting out the clutch at the last instant before you come to a complete stop will work. Any gear rotation at all will allow to to downshift.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Funny that I've never experience that on my past bikes... but it does make sense when you put it that way. These hard braking experiences are always unexpected things (I almost hit a deer two nights ago - it jumped right out in front of me and stopped in my lane). In these situations I'm concentrating on braking hard (without locking up) and keeping the bike level. Downshifting is superfluous in that kind of maneuver so I don't get around to it until after I'm stopped.

Thanks for the knowledge! I'll experiment and see how it goes.

 

[RustyG]

Funny that I've never experience that on my past bikes... but it does make sense when you put it that way. These hard braking experiences are always unexpected things (I almost hit a deer two nights ago - it jumped right out in front of me and stopped in my lane). In these situations I'm concentrating on braking hard (without locking up) and keeping the bike level. Downshifting is superfluous in that kind of maneuver so I don't get around to it until after I'm stopped.

Thanks for the knowledge! I'll experiment and see how it goes.

I'm with you on that one. I somehow manage to get control long enough to do the down shift just immediately before coming to a complete stop. Once i a while I don't make it so I gently nudge the bike forward and down shift until I am where I want (Neutral or First)

 

[thedoctor77]

I've experienced this phenomenon since my R was new. I must downshift completely before I come to a stop. It sounds like a common experience.

 

[ElrodontheV-Rod]

If you take a look at the shift drum on the bottom of the youtube screen,you should be able to understand why you cannot go from 5th,to 1st in a transmission similar to the one in the V-Rod.The shifter is completely different from a car,or truck,where we can grab any gear from any position.
If you ever get a chance to be around any typical motorcycle transmission like the v-rod houses,play around with it until you understand the theory of operation.understanding the theory of operation will let you shift the transmssion in your own motorcycle more efficiently.To better understand the clunk on engage ment,look at the other picture.

At the second site http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm you should be able to figure out why we can manually command any ratio,from any engaged ratio in a typical commuter vehicle.

I love this little video.

 

[ElrodontheV-Rod]

There are transmissions that have "Roll Around" shift drums.Meaning that,once high gear,(5th in our transmissions),has been selected,you can access neutral after 5th,then first.
The shift drum on a Roll Around trans has been machine completely around the drum where the forks ride,thus allowing neutral as the next selection after high.For safety reasons,large companys do not machine the shift drum to roll completely around.this means we have to access low gear by downshifting all the way through the ratio range,back to low gear.
Every single Roll Around transmission I own has a mechanical automatic release clutch.I don't know if all of them are like this,or if there is some sort of safety standard followed for the Roll Around shift drum.I just do know i have never seen a manual release clutch w a Roll Around shift drum in it.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Pretty impressive tech reference! I've been keeping all this in mind and have been able to control the downshifting much better now, so thanks all for your input.

Odd that the three different Suzuki sport bikes I've owned ('96 GSXR750, '97 TL1000S, '02 SV650S) never had this "feature". You could come to a complete stop in sixth and have no problem shifting all the way down to neutral or first in each of them. Weird...

 

[ElrodontheV-Rod]

Don't forget that there still could be a problem with the drum and forks with yours.It's an 02 and they did have problems.There were a few parts changes after 02 that made the trans shift much better.There is a noticeable difference between my 07 and my 03.
The only sure way to know if there is a problem is to tear it down and start inspecting.
In the mean time,learn how to shift as smooth as possible.Kicking the shifter to change gears,especially from neutral to low gear is a sure way to ruin the forks and drum in the 02 and 03 transmissions.I've seen quite a few 02 and 03 transmissions destroyed from people beating on them,and then again,I've seen many with very high mileage without a problem at all,mine is one of the many without.
I've never done a transmission job on a V-Rod.The damaged ones I've seen were at the local dealer.The worst one was in the wash guy's 02.He would kick that bastard into first so hard,that I would cringe.He destroyed his twice!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Don't forget that there still could be a problem with the drum and forks with yours.It's an 02 and they did have problems.There were a few parts changes after 02 that made the trans shift much better.There is a noticeable difference between my 07 and my 03.
The only sure way to know if there is a problem is to tear it down and start inspecting.
In the mean time,learn how to shift as smooth as possible.Kicking the shifter to change gears,especially from neutral to low gear is a sure way to ruin the forks and drum in the 02 and 03 transmissions.I've seen quite a few 02 and 03 transmissions destroyed from people beating on them,and then again,I've seen many with very high mileage without a problem at all,mine is one of the many without.
I've never done a transmission job on a V-Rod.The damaged ones I've seen were at the local dealer.The worst one was in the wash guy's 02.He would kick that bastard into first so hard,that I would cringe.He destroyed his twice!

Holy crap, really? What would possess a person to do that? Must subscribe to the "If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway" philosophy.

I've never stomped on a shifter and have no plans to. But thanks for the heads-up on the possible issues with the '02 tranny. I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[ElrodontheV-Rod]

Holy crap, really? What would possess a person to do that? Must subscribe to the "If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway" philosophy.

I've never stomped on a shifter and have no plans to. But thanks for the heads-up on the possible issues with the '02 tranny. I'll keep an eye on it.

I see people do this more on the models other than the V-Rod.I guess they think they look cool doing this,others are just to stupid and don't have a clue as to what and why they are doing it.

Part of the reason I suggest for you guys to look at the cool animation clips of the transmissions I post up,is because having a better understanding of what's going on when shifting,usually helps the operator shift more efficiently.

 

[mbeck23]

AMSOIL=Smoother sgifting