Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hate paying inflated prices at the dealership. I have a 2009 muscle with abs and the new brake fluid specified by Harley under the recall is the new platinum dot 4. In trying to find a generic version of this, I started with the recall info from NHTSA. In their write up, they state that Harley identified a "commercially available" brake fluid that would be best for our bikes under the recall. That statement leads me to believe that it is not a specialized formula but one currently on the market. Looking at the HD label, it states it is blended in Germany. It also shows a wet boiling point of 347 degrees and is yellow in color unlike the regular version which is clear. The only German made dot 4 fluid I can find that has the same exact wet boiling point is ATE SL6. This also happens to be yellow! Can get this for less than $12 delivered from Amazon and is about 3x the size of the Harley bottle. Think I am going to try it.

http://www.ate-brakes.com/products/brake-fluids/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,238 Posts
I hate paying inflated prices at the dealership. I have a 2009 muscle with abs and the new brake fluid specified by Harley under the recall is the new platinum dot 4. In trying to find a generic version of this, I started with the recall info from NHTSA. In their write up, they state that Harley identified a "commercially available" brake fluid that would be best for our bikes under the recall. That statement leads me to believe that it is not a specialized formula but one currently on the market. Looking at the HD label, it states it is blended in Germany. It also shows a wet boiling point of 347 degrees and is yellow in color unlike the regular version which is clear. The only German made dot 4 fluid I can find that has the same exact wet boiling point is ATE SL6. This also happens to be yellow! Can get this for less than $12 delivered from Amazon and is about 3x the size of the Harley bottle. Think I am going to try it.

http://www.ate-brakes.com/products/brake-fluids/
Since HD won't stand behind the HCU even if it fails with their fluid, which by the way is nothing special except the price, use whatever DOT4 is convenient. HD just trying to impress NHTSA with a so called new improved formula. They all have about the same anti corrosion additives and all DOT4 absorb moisture over time. The key is swap it, with ABS cycling as part of the process at 2 year intervals, regardless of brand. By then the corrosion inhibitors are going south in all of them. Unless you race the higher boiling point is optional as well. It also has no effect on extending the fluid swap time either.
Ron
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,518 Posts
Please tell me why Dot 3 ,4 or platinum 4 anyway ? - I put Dot 5 in my cars & some bikes like a half a lifetime ago - is it just cheapness from the OEM in initial designs, resistance to up the ante' on seals and piston quality & expense or am I just missing something here ? Any hygroscopic fluid to me has little real use in braking systems, it induces corrosion if it's not periodically and continually flushed. It's 2018 for crying out loud - why are we wrangling with this disfunctional Dot 4 B/S for anti-skid braking ? I read Dot 5 is not compatible with anti-skid systems due to the air generation during A/S pulsing, as it's hydrophobic, it's hard to believe they have not moved beyond that. So where is the newest non corrosive anti-skid fluid on the block ? Anyone know what race teams are using ? Maybe Platinum Dot 4 is as good as it gets ? :blahblah: :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,238 Posts
Please tell me why Dot 3 ,4 or platinum 4 anyway ? - I put Dot 5 in my cars & some bikes like a half a lifetime ago - is it just cheapness from the OEM in initial designs, resistance to up the ante' on seals and piston quality & expense or am I just missing something here ? Any hygroscopic fluid to me has little real use in braking systems, it induces corrosion if it's not periodically and continually flushed. It's 2018 for crying out loud - why are we wrangling with this disfunctional Dot 4 B/S for anti-skid braking ? I read Dot 5 is not compatible with anti-skid systems due to the air generation during A/S pulsing, as it's hydrophobic, it's hard to believe they have not moved beyond that. So where is the newest non corrosive anti-skid fluid on the block ? Anyone know what race teams are using ? Maybe Platinum Dot 4 is as good as it gets ? :blahblah: :D
Nothing special about it other then price. You know, just like the HD antifreeze.
As for why DOT4, ABS won't work with DOT5. The rapid cycling in the HCU causes bubbles to form and the system won't do what it's suppose to. I agree, you'd think by now someone would come up with a paint friendly, non hydrophobic fluid that works with ABS taking care of that corrosion issue or at least minimizing it. For now we are stuck with it but as long as it's changed regular it will be ok. Don't care for it's paint eating properties either which to me is the worst of it's down falls.
Ron
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,518 Posts
Yes, as 2009vrscf stated the ATE SL6 looks real good, also the Motul DOT 5.1 looks real good it will NOT mix with DOT 5 but it WILL mix with DOT 3 or 4 so no worries for fluid left in system mixing. Also it's designed for anti-skid systems so should be fine for H-D A/S use, is superior to DOT 3 or 4, dry boiling point 516-522 and wet 365 degrees. Motul also has P/N 8068HL RBF600 with an even higher boiling point of 594 degrees but I'm not sure about DOT 3 or 4 compatibility. There is conflicting info in the advertising so buyer beware - I would think it must state Dot 3 or 4 mix compatible and designed for anti-skid systems for H-D A/S system use. Don't know if either Motul product or ATE does NOT peel paint - if it's synthetic maybe not - that would be a game changer, no more peeling clutch and brake master cylinder covers and lever perches. Maybe this 5.1 is as good as it gets for now ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,238 Posts
Yes, as 2009vrscf stated the ATE SL6 looks real good, also the Motul DOT 5.1 looks real good it will NOT mix with DOT 5 but it WILL mix with DOT 3 or 4 so no worries for fluid left in system mixing. Also it's designed for anti-skid systems so should be fine for H-D A/S use, is superior to DOT 3 or 4, dry boiling point 516-522 and wet 365 degrees. Motul also has P/N 8068HL RBF600 with an even higher boiling point of 594 degrees but I'm not sure about DOT 3 or 4 compatibility. There is conflicting info in the advertising so buyer beware - I would think it must state Dot 3 or 4 mix compatible and designed for anti-skid systems for H-D A/S system use. Don't know if either Motul product or ATE does NOT peel paint - if it's synthetic maybe not - that would be a game changer, no more peeling clutch and brake master cylinder covers and lever perches. Maybe this 5.1 is as good as it gets for now ?
Just remember you are paying the extra for a higher boiling point. Something not needed in a v rod, only full blown racing, round and roundy. Corrosion additives are about equal to lower temp Dot4 fluids, so the two year interval is still in effect.
Ron
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,518 Posts
Brake fluid- the only paint stripper that stops vehicles.

Since the Motul DOT 5.1 was designed specifically for ABS anti-skid systems and is superior to DOT 3 or 4 Fluids ( except @ -40 degrees, but that's probably not a common V Rod riding day ) I think this one is at the top of the pile, is 100 % synthetic but it still peels paint according to their technical specs page. The RBF 600 and 660 are really racing only brake fluid with no mention of ABS so those probably are inappropriate, and overkill. So yea Ron no magic brake fluid yet that's good for over 2 years, but it's strange as our business jets use either standard high temp red hydraulic fluid or synthetic ester based ( Skydrol or Hy-Jet 4 ) fluids and have no problem going to - 50 degrees, + 400 degrees or absorbing moisture or running 5+ years and hundreds/thousands of landings on the same anti-skid metal/carbon brake set. They do have brake filters and generally get replaced and brakes bled at 3 year intervals but dry bleed air pressures the reservoir. I believe car and M/C brake systems could have a dessicant on the atmospheric vent for the reservoir, that would absorb the moisture before it gets in the fluid but then we would have to change that. Guess we are stuck for now swapping fluid every year or two, until electronic brakes arrive - :blahblah: :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,238 Posts
Since the Motul DOT 5.1 was designed specifically for ABS anti-skid systems and is superior to DOT 3 or 4 Fluids ( except @ -40 degrees, but that's probably not a common V Rod riding day ) I think this one is at the top of the pile, is 100 % synthetic but it still peels paint according to their technical specs page. The RBF 600 and 660 are really racing only brake fluid with no mention of ABS so those probably are inappropriate, and overkill. So yea Ron no magic brake fluid yet that's good for over 2 years, but it's strange as our business jets use either standard high temp red hydraulic fluid or synthetic ester based ( Skydrol or Hy-Jet 4 ) fluids and have no problem going to - 50 degrees, + 400 degrees or absorbing moisture or running 5+ years and hundreds/thousands of landings on the same anti-skid metal/carbon brake set. They do have brake filters and generally get replaced and brakes bled at 3 year intervals but dry bleed air pressures the reservoir. I believe car and M/C brake systems could have a dessicant on the atmospheric vent for the reservoir, that would absorb the moisture before it gets in the fluid but then we would have to change that. Guess we are stuck for now swapping fluid every year or two, until electronic brakes arrive - :blahblah: :D
Yes, I used that in my aircraft brakes and in the oleos in my Champ back in the day. Those brakes hardly get a work out. Always wondered why it's not used in autos as that fluid does see some extremes in temps and works well in aircraft, then discovered, the major deficiencies of MIL-H-5606 are its high flammability and a relatively low boiling point. Low boiling point might be the reason for not using it. I see most light aircraft brakes now use Dot4 as well.
You may be working with a different spec fluid?
Ron
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,518 Posts
Ron the replacement for 5606 is now MIL-PRF-83282D, a synthetic fire resistant hydraulic fluid -40 to 401 degree use. This would work in a properly designed motorcycle brake system, including ABS I would think - it's just there is no interest from the Mfgs. to get away from the same old brake fluids. Hopefully that will change. It's also very kind to paint unlike DOT 3/4 or the aircraft Skydrol which is effectively paint stripper, very nasty. Like you say the higher boiling point is not a necessity for most street bikes unless they are raced, the only time I've really heated my R model brakes way up is in the mountains, doing a lot of downhill twisties. Still below 325 degrees I would think. Also for the non ABS V Rods I don't see why we can't use DOT 5 Silicone fluid, as long as a super good flush is done then the moisture absorption/corrosion aspect and the paint stripper action is negated, anyone reading this try DOT 5 in a regular non ABS V Rod ? :blahblah: :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
Ron the replacement for 5606 is now MIL-PRF-83282D, a synthetic fire resistant hydraulic fluid -40 to 401 degree use. This would work in a properly designed motorcycle brake system, including ABS I would think - it's just there is no interest from the Mfgs. to get away from the same old brake fluids. Hopefully that will change. It's also very kind to paint unlike DOT 3/4 or the aircraft Skydrol which is effectively paint stripper, very nasty. Like you say the higher boiling point is not a necessity for most street bikes unless they are raced, the only time I've really heated my R model brakes way up is in the mountains, doing a lot of downhill twisties. Still below 325 degrees I would think. Also for the non ABS V Rods I don't see why we can't use DOT 5 Silicone fluid, as long as a super good flush is done then the moisture absorption/corrosion aspect and the paint stripper action is negated, anyone reading this try DOT 5 in a regular non ABS V Rod ? :blahblah: :D
My former Non ABS 2005 SE V rod required Dot 5.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top