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Dreaming of Twisties
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593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Didn't get to ride much last year so the bike lived in the garage (sinful, I know...) - just got a new battery and she's started up fine. BUT...

The cooling fans aren't coming on. They don't come on when the maxi-fuse is removed and replaced, though they do spin by hand.

I see it's a relay connection. Not knowing too much about relays - i don't know how to test it without just replacing it. Since I may be facing a more expensive repair here, I don't want to through any extra money into it than I have to - can anyone give me any more advice of any other electrical connections to check or troubleshooting I can do, save replace anything in line?

I did check the butterfly connectors under the left hand radiator shroud and they seem fine...

Thanks in advance...
 

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Noel
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Is it possible the bike has not gotten hot enough?

This time of year my fan rarely comes on, in the HOT of summer & riding her hard it comes more frequently.

The service manual has wiring schematics & electric Diagnostics book might have better tips, ( I do not have one....yet....)
 

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I could be wrong here and i'm sure someone will chime in if i am. But i think on start up with a cold engine and letting the bike idle it's approx 6 minutes for fans to engage.

rumble on
stutz
 

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Dreaming of Twisties
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the help - but I let it idle about 10 minutes - no fan - it was uncomfortably hot and there was a slight smell of burning coolant... no fans...

Also - the fans run a diag when you replace the maxi-fuse and come on for three seconds - there was nothing when I did this.

The service manual was unhelpful and referred to the electrical diag manual - which I don't have - does anybody else?
 

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Premium Member
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6,248 Posts
... The cooling fans aren't coming on. They don't come on when the maxi-fuse is removed and replaced, though they do spin by hand...
I don’t understand what your concern is. The fans only come on when the coolant temperature reaches 95° C (203° F). They stay on until the temperature drops to 90° C (194° F). The fans will continue to run after the ignition is turned off for up to one minute as long as the temperature stays above 90° C but they don’t come on when you start the bike unless the coolant is above 95° C.

...i think on start up with a cold engine and letting the bike idle it's approx 6 minutes for fans to engage. ...
No, there is no time delay. The fans will come on right away if the coolant temperature is above 95° C.
 

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Premium Member
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Thanks for the help - but I let it idle about 10 minutes - no fan - it was uncomfortably hot and there was a slight smell of burning coolant... no fans...

Also - the fans run a diag when you replace the maxi-fuse and come on for three seconds - there was nothing when I did this.

The service manual was unhelpful and referred to the electrical diag manual - which I don't have - does anybody else?
In the 2002 version of the EDM fan diagnostics involves using a “Scanalyzer” and refers to trouble codes that are set. Do you have any trouble codes?

The following codes indicate FAN problems:
P1481: Fan output open/low (occurs if fan relay is removed, Red with Orange stripe wire from BATTERY fuse is damaged, or this fuse is blown)

P1482: Fan output high (occurs when relay coil resistance drops or if a short to 12 V occurs on the White with Red stripe wire that connects to the ECM pin #2).

The EDM tests are mostly for checking for problems with the wiring for the FAN relay. The FAN and START relays are the same but the SYSTEM relay is close enough in specs for testing so you can swap one of the other relays to see if the FAN relay is bad. The FAN circuit is powered by the BATTERY fuse so check this fuse also.

You might want to check your coolant temperature sensor and the wiring for it. This sensor is a thermistor that varies resistance with temperature: 10k to 16k ohms when cold and 130 to 200 ohms when hot. The thermistor is connected to ECM pin #6 through a Pink with Yellow stripe wire. This wire connects to a 5 V supply in the ECM through a two-step dropping resistor. When cold this resistor is 4000 ohms and the voltage measured at pin #6 should be about 4 V. The voltage will drop as coolant temperature rises until it’s about 1 V at 45° C (113° F). When the temperature reaches about 45° C the ECM changes the dropping resistor to 350 ohms and the voltage at pin #6 again goes up to about 4 V and then drops with temperature again. The other end of the thermistor is connected to a SENSOR GROUND on pin #26 through a Black with White stripe wire.
 

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Registered
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Sorry but the coolant and the oil would be cold in a cold engine, what i'm saying is when you first start up after a period of perhaps overnight or longer the engine is cold. And i think it take's approx 6 mins for the fan's to kick in, if you let the bike idle.
Perhaps somebody could confirm this.

rumble on
stutz
 

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Dreaming of Twisties
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593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In the 2002 version of the EDM fan diagnostics involves using a “Scanalyzer” and refers to trouble codes that are set. Do you have any trouble codes?

The following codes indicate FAN problems:
P1481: Fan output open/low (occurs if fan relay is removed, Red with Orange stripe wire from BATTERY fuse is damaged, or this fuse is blown)

P1482: Fan output high (occurs when relay coil resistance drops or if a short to 12 V occurs on the White with Red stripe wire that connects to the ECM pin #2).

The EDM tests are mostly for checking for problems with the wiring for the FAN relay. The FAN and START relays are the same but the SYSTEM relay is close enough in specs for testing so you can swap one of the other relays to see if the FAN relay is bad. The FAN circuit is powered by the BATTERY fuse so check this fuse also.

You might want to check your coolant temperature sensor and the wiring for it. This sensor is a thermistor that varies resistance with temperature: 10k to 16k ohms when cold and 130 to 200 ohms when hot. The thermistor is connected to ECM pin #6 through a Pink with Yellow stripe wire. This wire connects to a 5 V supply in the ECM through a two-step dropping resistor. When cold this resistor is 4000 ohms and the voltage measured at pin #6 should be about 4 V. The voltage will drop as coolant temperature rises until it’s about 1 V at 45° C (113° F). When the temperature reaches about 45° C the ECM changes the dropping resistor to 350 ohms and the voltage at pin #6 again goes up to about 4 V and then drops with temperature again. The other end of the thermistor is connected to a SENSOR GROUND on pin #26 through a Black with White stripe wire.
Thanks Stever - this is the type of info I was looking for.

For everyone else - this doesn't SEEM (I've been wrong before) to be just a case of "I think the fans should be on - so there's something wrong" - it was close to 90 degrees in my backyard and I was letting it idle for well over 10 minutes, the exhaust was REALLY hot - the radiator was smoking white and I could smell burning coolant... I didn't though let the bike get so hot that the engine heat sensor came on, I was concerned that if there was an electrical problem, the heat sensor may malfunction as well and not do its thing.

The check engine light's not on - so I'd imagine there aren't any trouble codes - but I'll double check (I forget how to do it without the Scanalyzer, but I'll look it up).

I would think though if it's the temp sensor, I would still get the fans to turn on when I replace the Maxifuse - as it always had in the past...

Is there any way to force the fans to spin?

Thanks again for the help - I love this place...
 

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NOTLAW
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47 Posts
i have had my 07 AW for almost 2 years and my fans have only came on a half a dozen times at most. i also have a vance @ hines 2 into 1 pipe so it breathes well. my buddy has a stocker and they were always coming on. so the six minutes from strtup is not nessisarily true!
 

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Dreaming of Twisties
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I did just replace the air filter, which apart from the battery, was the only thing I changed before I started it up. It does breathe well, but that would indicate lean, which would mean hotter temp.

And again - the bike's designed to test the fans when the maxifuse is reinserted, they don't come on when it is now...
 

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The Hawk
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3,889 Posts
Check the fan relay, one of two relays on the fuse cluster. You can switch the relays to see if it will run the fans. You can also take the old relay down to any NAPA dealer and get a replacement for about $10. They are used on all kinds of vehicles.

Mike
 

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Dreaming of Twisties
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593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Check the fan relay, one of two relays on the fuse cluster. You can switch the relays to see if it will run the fans. You can also take the old relay down to any NAPA dealer and get a replacement for about $10. They are used on all kinds of vehicles.

Mike
Thanks - I think part of my problem is that I don't know how to check a relay - but if I swap it out - the fan should still kick on when the maxifuse gets changed. if that works, then I'll know it's the relay and not the fans. I can't imagine that both fans would go at the same time - the bike's only got about 8K miles on it. it's gotta be something with the wiring and I'll find it out...
 

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The Hawk
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Those relays going out are a known problem, and an easy fix. They are the 2 big square box plug in things on the right hand side of the fuse cluster as you sit on the bike. Just pull them and switch positions. One is the start relay and one is the fan. If the current fan one is bad, then when you switch it to the starter relay position then the bike should not start.

Mike
 

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Jeff/Modistrator
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6,136 Posts
I recently had a fan issue with the P1481 code. Turned out being the wire connectors coming from/going to the fans. I exchanged my fan relay with the starter relay; still didn't work correctly, only sporadically. I took those connectors apart and they were corroded beyond belief. I bought new connectors and the fans work good now.
 

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Premium Member
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... I think part of my problem is that I don't know how to check a relay ...
I posted a drawing of the FAN relay connections. This shows a schematic drawing of the relay and the applicable connectors. The C, R, I, and P are the connector pin outs for the #[62] fuse/relay connector and the 3/30, 1/86, 5/87, and 2/85 are labels used on the relays. If you pull the relay you can force the fans on by jumping between the C/3/30 socket and the I/5/87 socket (if the ignition is on). Removing the relay with the ignition on will probably throw a P1481 code.

edit: I added color to the relay schematic
 

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Dreaming of Twisties
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593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I posted a drawing of the FAN relay connections. This shows a schematic drawing of the relay and the applicable connectors. The C, R, I, and P are the connector pin outs for the #[62] fuse/relay connector and the 3/30, 1/86, 5/87, and 2/85 are labels used on the relays. If you pull the relay you can force the fans on by jumping between the C/3/30 socket and the I/5/87 socket (if the ignition is on). Removing the relay with the ignition on will probably throw a P1481 code.

So basically it's a switch with a resistor - current flows from C through the resistor until it hits the right moment then it connects to I?
 

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So basically it's a switch with a resistor - current flows from C through the resistor until it hits the right moment then it connects to I?
No, It is a switch that is closed by a electro magnet to complete the circuit terminal 30(C) is constant 12 volt battery power feed for the fan

Terminal 86 (R) is 12 supply for field coil which closes the contacts electro magnetically

Terminal 87 (I) is the fan side of the contact that get its power from terminal 30 (C) when the contact is closed

Terminal 85 (P) is the ecm control for the relay, which when the ecm senses the temp from the ECT (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor) required temp to turn the fans on. The ECM grounds terminal 85 (P), which activates the electro magnet and closes the contacts thus completing the circuit and turning the fans on
 

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Premium Member
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So basically it's a switch with a resistor - current flows from C through the resistor until it hits the right moment then it connects to I?
Not really. There's no resistor connected to terminal C/3/30. Like Hal64hd mentioned the relay is just an ECM activated switch. When the ignition is on 12.8 volts (actually 14.4 V when the engine is running) is applied to terminals C/3/30 and R/1/86. This is supplied by the BATTERY circuit via a Red wire with Orange stripe. ECM pin #2 is connected to the P/2/85 terminal. When the coolant temperature rises to 95° C the ECM connects pin #2 to ground. This energizes the relay so that terminal C/3/30 connects to terminal I/5/87.
 

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Dreaming of Twisties
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593 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
OK - so here's where we're at...

Took out the starter relay and put in the fan relay - bike starts.
Put back in the fan relay - no fan.

Jumped the fan relay pins - fans on just fine.

Put back in the fan relay - relay engages and fans are on. Even with the bike off. Fans won't turn off even though bike is cold.

I have a P1481 code in there from the relay being out - but nothing else.

Any thoughts?
 
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