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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Sirs!

Which manufacturers make Billet Clutch Baskets which uses oem spring dampener system and that thin gear for backlash reducing?

To me it looks like most of them has left this dampener away.

With my new engine build I need to do something with the basket but I do not want to get rid of that dampener and the thin gear. Especially if I go to chain over belt someday. Weight or wear is not an issue here. I would want to have this clutch functionality in my new build.

Brgds,

Mukle
 

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Great question mukle we've discussed the clutch basket attachment to the drive gear/damper before here and some guys have even found the solid rivet heads that attach the basket to the gear in their oil pans and on oil magnets. You might be able to search for the thread. I think part of the problem is the head of that rivet is thin for clearance - if you drill out the rivets to replace the basket there may not be room for a bolt head using the damper and who sells and installs those steel rivets for shear strength ? Maybe someone else knows for sure but I'll search for the old thread.
 

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Found it - search on Forum page V Rod Mechanical section using "Clutch Basket" see thread " Please Help Me Identify This Part " to see popped head on clutch basket to damper rivet - page 3 has a great photo of back side of clutch - difficult to replace with a bolt for a new billet basket.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks streetrodracer for your input.

Replacing the clutch rivet is possible. Actually I have done this. I already trashed one stock basket with my previous build and replaced it by bolting another oem basket in.

I put M8 Helicoil inserts in the basket and used DIN933 10.9 hex bolts for fixing the dampener plate. Hex bolt head is low enough to make adequate clearance for the parts behind. Did not use washer this time.

That mod did the trick in my previous build for 4K miles without problems. Now I have disassembled the clutch and basket looks still ok. But now I am going to next level with the torq and power so I do not think that stock basket will last long without falling to pieces.

However I wish to point out that my mod was more like duck tape repair among the riding season and I do not suggest directly to go with it unless there is no other possibilities for fixing the clutch by professional mechanic. Cannot take responsibility for this style repairs.

I think that direct dampener bolt on is not possible with the current billet baskets available. There is no room for the dampener spring system and sector shaped primary gear slots have been used for transmit torque instead of bolts or rivets.
 

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I agree mukle, seems guys that use the billet baskets have no problems though, and although I agree it would be nice to retain the oem dampener if appears unnecessary. The bolts & helicoils you used may work if of course the billet basket was designed for it and thick enough and to also possibly increase the number of fasteners. Installing the bolts with an interference fit of .001 - .002 or so would help a lot. Probably more trouble than it's worth but I don't want those oem rivets popping off inside my engine that's for sure -
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes dampener would be still good if possible since I am little concerned about those clutch biting issues. I got some tastes of this annoying behaviour with the lock up which I never got adjusted properly. I am pretty sure that those experiments lead me into troubles and trashed my basket. Of course non stock torque was involved. Those three aluminium fastener barrels were ripped completely off. Then I replaced the oem basket with another and put it together with helicoils and bolts as explained above.

Maybe optimum solution for hipo street bikes would be somewhere between fixed and little dampened clutch. Maybe limiting that twisting angle somehow before springs are completely compressed.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I will little bit continue with this case. Since there were not suitable billet baskets available for me we decided to design completely new basket together with Karzza. With his contribution we included some drag racing features while it should be still very street capable. Major keypoints in the new design was

  • Adding back spring dampener system for vibrations and biting issues especially in heavy loads and quick starts
  • Stiff tool springs capable of 300Nm crank torque
  • Closed design for preventing centrifugal high rpm clutch drying
  • Material usage optimization for durability yet low rotating inertia
  • Use of the one hardest aluminium grade EN-AW7075 available
  • +50um thick hard anodization with teflon sealing
So let see how this operates when the riding season starts here. At least installation went as planned and zero issues. I have good feeling about this.

VR_Basket_UP_3.JPG 20200319_164054.jpg 20200319_164021.jpg 20200321_095616.jpg 20200321_095656.jpg
 

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I will little bit continue with this case. Since there were not suitable billet baskets available for me we decided to design completely new basket together with Karzza. With his contribution we included some drag racing features while it should be still very street capable. Major keypoints in the new design was

  • Adding back spring dampener system for vibrations and biting issues especially in heavy loads and quick starts
  • Stiff tool springs capable of 300Nm crank torque
  • Closed design for preventing centrifugal high rpm clutch drying
  • Material usage optimization for durability yet low rotating inertia
  • Use of the one hardest aluminium grade EN-AW7075 available
  • +50um thick hard anodization with teflon sealing
So let see how this operates when the riding season starts here. At least installation went as planned and zero issues. I have good feeling about this.

View attachment 603580 View attachment 603581 View attachment 603582 View attachment 603583 View attachment 603584
That looks impressive. Good job! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Coastrider.

Knut. Well this winter engine build is so called semi all in. I want to drive with it good kilometers and reliability and driveability are necessary for me. Here is fun fact for this build:

  • Water cooled turbocharger Garret GT2554R (This will be replaced later)
  • MCxpressen plenum
  • 1350cc, bore 4,134" and stroke +1/4" and 0,060" head gaskets
  • Coated CP offset pistons
  • K1 stock length conrods
  • Vreeland coated main and conrod bearings
  • Pinned main bearings
  • Special length 10mm main studs. Aerospace grade steel with material proof. Nordlock washers.
  • ARP 10mm head studs. Nordlock washers.
  • K&M brace
  • K&M clutch and Barnett kevlar discs. Approx. 70% stronger springs.
  • Own design 58mm Throttle Body
  • Vreeland NC-ported heads and Jones stg-2 cams and oversize valves
  • Daytona VRFI-4 ecm 300kPa firmware
  • Big injectors and E85 gas
  • Walbro high flow fuel pump and 5bar regulator
  • Own Arduino based microcontroller for auxiliary functions like upgraded launch control.
  • There must be something else but I do not remember now.
Bike is so far ugly as hell. It's been made of vrscr. This thing will be treated later. Not this winter. However it is handling much better than my other almost stock vrscb.
 

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If successful ( looks like it will be ) hopefully Karzza & Mukle ( K&M ?) will offer clutch for sale ? What front pulley you have fitted ? I just put a 30 tooth on my Stage 1 R using stock length belt to pull rear axle as fully fwd. as possible to reduce the wheelbase - rides much better - if you wanted to go 32 tooth for Turbo you could use the belt for the 30 tooth it would do same thing. This slightly lowers rear so next step is 16 - 16.25 inch shocks - just don't lower the R that Turbo bike in Europe must be a blast in the mountains ! GT R Canyon Carver ! (y):D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Let see first how the new clutch performs. If it is success we are able to produce more of them. Of course there has to be reasonable set quantity like 5 to 10 or so. They are made to order since we are doing this at hobby basis not for income.

I have used both T28 and T30 pulleys and have a couple of different length belts. Also if engine pulls like ox I might test T32. Pulleys are turned as lightweight as possible. Of course they are not as light as billet aluminium pulleys. Your suggestion about reducing the wheelbase makes sense and it is worthwhile testing. Have not thought about this earlier.

I already lowered it little bit from rear. Now it looks like wheeling. I cannot lower it to ground due to billet oil pan which is approx one inch deeper. Personally I like drive with R. Especially in the corners it performs very well and mid controls are not scratching all the time in minor lean angles. I can easily drive together with my other friends Fireblade.

Yes you concluded right. K&M stands for Karzza and Mukle. Two Finnish V-Rod enthusiastics.
 

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Awesome, sounds great Mukle, if anything the R needs a shorter wheelbase and higher rear end to sharpen steering. Guys here on the site swear to dropping front triple clamps 20 mm lower on fork tubes with stock shock length but I'm thinking drop 10mm up front raise rear by 10mm but that's my little experiment to find out. In any event lowering the rear on an R is going the wrong direction for mountain riding - put it back where it was and once underway from a stop you'll be much happier - great luck with your clutch let us know how it performs ! (y) :D
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes it is constant battle between form and function. Original rear shocks are almost ridiculous long making bike really look like that mountain enduro. Have to find out somekind of compromise here and front end has to be lowered a bit and raise rear little bit so it looks like leaning bit forward when looking at side.

R models little steeper rake and upsider front with Brembo brakes makes it really fun to drive. No mention when there is enough power hang on with the one liter guys. I am also ripping off all unnecessary weight. Rear end is much lighter already. Perhaps I loose some traction in the strip but will gain better weight to power ratio. Low ten or perhaps nine club would be awesome. At least I will give a shot.
 

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I have H-D leave on saddlebags brackets mounted on the rear for the H-D Nylon sport bags, and they take up a lot of the open space between fender and tire to reduce that jacked up in the ass look. I can add 1/2 an inch to stock shock length of 15.75 " and it will still look normal. Sometimes we luck out and get Function and Form by accident - If you lower your triple clamps on the forks be sure to check your tire to intercooler clearance at full bottomed fork travel - that's a great intercooler setup you have there compared to the pointless sideways setups we often see but your tire might get close to hitting the top edge of the intercooler if you lower it too much and that would be an eye opener if it scraped it while riding - just a thought, so maybe 10mm is the limit, 20mm maybe too much ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Good idea! Saddlebags definitely fills that open space between tire and fender. Also very useful in longer trips ? My bike is only for cruising local hoods so I do not put bags there.

I did not found suitable IC anywhere so this custom made according to my drawings. Therefore I could check necessary clearance between front tire and IC when the suspension is bottoming. But yes this is another example of that function form. Not very neat but enough big for efficient cooling. I think that I can lower front end a little bit so tire will not hit the IC. Maybe that 10mm is doable.

I dream about bound and rebound adjustable öhlins shocks someday. Before buying them height checks has to be with cheaper standard shocks.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Small update here. Clutch fits like a glove. No fancy colors - more like military finish. It will be covered anyway so what's the point. Once again function before form. Maybe I'll give another chance to lock up which was not very good with previous build. This time I might play with the weights and the spacers more since I do not have to be alarmed if the basket will last or not. This can be useful in strip pulls. I am pretty sure that I will suffer some clutch slipping with the new torque numbers and heavier springs are not an option anymore. Clutch lever needs Popeyes hand then. Not very nice in streets and traffic.

20200327_165743.jpg


I think this is optional but I made some more room in the three sector slots where fixing barrels goes thru. Same machining in the thicker primary gear. Now new HD tool springs can compress fully without restriction. So I chose that fully damped system in both direction. Other possibility is to restrict dampening angle symmetrically or asymmetrically for acceleration and deceleration.

20200326_085032.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Oberon work cylinder looks good and it is reasonable priced product. Have you Knut or someone tested it does it make lever lighter? What you win with the force you loose with the travel. I am little concerned that it will still release clutch properly. Perhaps this is unnecessary concern and its been taken care of.
 
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