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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #1
Well, got the report in fax today. They finished the analysis faster then what iIthought, even with the wrong kit.

The good news is there is less than 1 % volume fuel in the oil.

This synoil was checked on the spectrochemical analysis. There's a list of items they check for, but the bottom line was with almost 5,000 miles on the AMSOIL, no corrective action is required. Oil is suitable for continued use. Resample at next interval.
 

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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #2
Just got in the last test from the oil sample sent to Oil Analyzers. The results are for AMSOIL 20 W 50 oil that was used at the 10,000 mile check up. The oil was checked at 17, 600 miles. When the oil was changed, the bike had about 10150 miles on the odometer. here are the results:
17,600 MILES
Substance PPM
IRON 10
CHROMIUM 0
LEAD 4
COPPER 11
TIN 0
ALUMINUM 21
NICKLE 0
SILVER 0
SILICON 6
BORON 62
SODIUM 6
MAGNESIUM 793
CALCIUM 2085
BARIUM 0
PHOSPHORUS 1152
ZINC 1331
MOLYBDENUM 1
TITANIUM 0
VANADIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
FUEL < 1
VIS @ 40c CsT n/a
WATER 0
SOOT/SOLIDS n/a
GLYCOL NEG
TBN 11.15
OXID 17.0
NITR 13.0
CHANGE OIL? NO

ANALYSIS RECOMMENDATONS:

NO CORRECTIVE ACTION REQUIRED. OIL IS SUITABLE FOR CONTINUED USE. RESAMPLE AT NEXT REGULAR INTERVAL

Thoughts anyone?

Will continue to bring this up as the samples are sent in and results are returned. Next test will be performed at 20,150 miles which will reflect 10,000 miles with same oil and filter.

This report is for a 02 VRSCA, ridden in a mix of heavy traffic, sometimes under a lot of heavy acceleration. Some free way cruising, and low speed riding as well. Average temperature of geographicala area is 80 degrees F.
 

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Color me Gone
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Rich that is amazing results and says alot for both the oil and the bike.

Max
 

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Just bought some amsoil too, I'll let y'all know how it turns out for me. Couldn't help but try it after reading the results above and asking a few of the fellas here at work about it. One guy said he put some in his john deere tractor and hasn't had to change the oil in it since. Guess I'll be going that on my tractor as well, if it works on my bike that is.
 

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Rich Moran said:
Well, got the report in fax today. They finished the analysis faster then what iIthought, even with the wrong kit.

The good news is there is less than 1 % volume fuel in the oil.

This synoil was checked on the spectrochemical analysis. There's a list of items they check for, but the bottom line was with almost 5,000 miles on the AMSOIL, no corrective action is required. Oil is suitable for continued use. Resample at next interval.

At 1% fuel in the oil, did the oil smell like gas?


Bill
 

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VrodRick74 said:
No but my gas smells like oil.
My GAS Smells like ROSES! :lick:
 

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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #8
Wild Bill,

There is a slight smell of fuel when oputting the nose around the dipstick. Nothing that screams "gas in the oil" but you can tell that there is the gas smell, as slight as it is. Since gas is so volatile, it does not take much to emit its odor.

VrodRick, if your sniffin your gas, do it with a rag in a paper sack, it'll make you high as a kite...who knows, the next pink elephant you see just might be a green mouse.

Kaz, tell your lady to stop pullin your finger....sweet farts hey????
 

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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #9
While trippin out in OZ, I had another sample sent off for a look over, and here is the results:

Miles on oil: 9894
Miles on motor: 20530
Test result: Abnormal


Substance PPM
IRON 19 (+9 PPM since last test=SLT)
CHROMIUM 0
LEAD 6 (+2 PPM SLT)
COPPER (+9 PPM SLT)
TIN 0
ALUMINUM 30 (+9 PPM SLT ABNORMAL) Hmmm, cause for concern perhaps??
NICKLE 0
SILVER 0
SILICON 7 (+1 PPM SLT)
BORON 71 (+ 10 PPM SLT)
SODIUM 7 (+1 PPM SLT)
MAGNESIUM 935 (+42 PPM SLT)
CALCIUM 2400 (+ 315 PPM SLT)
BARIUM 0
PHOSPHORUS 1191 (+ 39 PPM SLT)
ZINC 1338 (+ 7 PPM SLT)
MOLYBDENUM 1 (SAME)
TITANIUM 0
VANADIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
FUEL < 1 (SAME)
VIS @ 40c cSt n/a
VIS @ 100c cSt 13.24 ( 1st test = 13.14, 2nd test = 13.57 3rd test listed first)
WATER 0
SOOT/SOLIDS n/a
GLYCOL NEG
TBN 11.15 (no change)
OXID 17.0 (no change)
NITR 13.0 (no change)
CHANGE OIL? NO

ANALYSIS RECOMMENDATONS:

WEAR METAL FLAGGED ARE ABNORMAL. CHANGE FILTER / TOP OFF SYSTEM. RESAMPLE AT NEXT REGULAR INTERVAL.

With aluminum showing up in the spectrochemical analysis, I have some concern over. The pistons being the aluminum components taking the most abuse in the motor,
these come to mind first. However, bearings that ride or are placed onto aluminum surfaces they are set into also come into mind as well as chain rub, that could perhaps be making contact while traveling.

Anyone have an idea about why the aluminum might be coming in abnormal over what I have just listed? I know I need to contact Oil Analyzers regarding the aluminum content to discover what the threshold is for major concern for interior look see into the motor itself.

Also, the filter has the same milage as the oil does since the last change.

I believe that this is another reason why these testing of oil should be done. I am off warranty, and if the aluminum continues to increase, perhaps a look into the motor will be warranted.
 

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IMHO, you ran your oil to long. I am not familiar with wear metal limits on a gasoline engine, but your numbers in the first analysis were to high compared to what we normally see in diesel engines. I would change the oil and filter and send oil samples every 2500 miles to get a trend. when the wear metals begin to climb by 20% or more its my opnion that the oil is breaking down and needs to be changed
 

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Can you change the filter without loosing all the oil? I always drain the oil first so I never found out the hard way. Going to Amsoil on my next change- soon. Z
 

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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #12
Here is the latest report on the AMSOIL I have been running.

Miles on oil: 13,524
Miles on motor: 23,634
Test result: Normal

(Last report indicated ABNORMAL and suggested filter change only)


Substance PPM
IRON 17 (-2 PPM since last test=SLT)
CHROMIUM 0
LEAD 0 (-6 PPM SLT)
COPPER 15 (-5 PPM SLT)
TIN 0
ALUMINUM 13 (-18 PPM SLT and with the last report I'd feared having a look inside, no more as of now I think ;) )
NICKLE 0
SILVER 0
SILICON 2 (-5 PPM SLT)
BORON 35 (-36 PPM SLT)
SODIUM 6 (-1 PPM SLT)
MAGNESIUM 750 (-185 PPM SLT)
CALCIUM 2751 (+ 351 PPM SLT)
BARIUM 0
PHOSPHORUS 1004 (- 187 PPM SLT)
ZINC 1222 (- 116 PPM SLT)
MOLYBDENUM 0 (- 1 PPM SLT)
TITANIUM 0
VANADIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
FUEL < 1 (SAME)
VIS @ 40c cSt n/a
VIS @ 100c cSt 13.13 ( 1st test = 13.14, 2nd test = 13.57, 3rd test = 13.24)
WATER 0
SOOT/SOLIDS n/a
GLYCOL NEG
TBN 11.15 (no change SLT @ 9894 miles on oil) current test =9.89
OXID 17.0 (no change) " " =3.0
NITR 13.0 (no change) " " =12.0
CHANGE OIL? NO

ANALYSIS RECOMMENDATONS:

( LAST TEST RESULTED IN THIS : WEAR METAL FLAGGED ARE ABNORMAL. CHANGE FILTER / TOP OFF SYSTEM. RESAMPLE AT NEXT REGULAR INTERVAL.)

CURRENT ANALYSIS RECOMMENDATIONS:

NO CORRECTIVE ACTION REQUIRED, OIL IS SUITABLE FOR CONTINUED USE. RESAMPLE AT NEXT REGULAR INTERVAL.

Filter changes are a must according to these results, and mine show apparent at the 6,000 mile interval of miles on oil. The filter change out using OEM HD filter. Next change will be to AMSOIL supplied filter.

This oil has been in this bike for a year as of 3/22, bike has been run moderatley hard as described in the first posting of this thread.

With this report I am beginning to wonder how many miles one could rack up on the oil with interval filter changes at the 5,000 mile mark.
 

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LIVE FULL THROTTLE
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Just changed both bikes over to Amsoil...Rich, is Amsoil paying you for this???If not , they should...
 

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With the price of several oil analysis reports, couldn't you just CHANGE your oil for less money? Unless you are being paid by amsoil to push the life of the oil to the limit. Now that you are certain that the oil holds up for extended use, wouldn't you consider something like a 10,000 mile oil change interval? That way you recoup some of the high cost of the synthetic oil with going perhaps 4X your recommended service interval. But at 10,000 miles you still are getting some nice fresh oil in the bike say once a year...

How much oil did you have to add to top off when you changed the filter? If you ended up filling up more than a quart you can see one reason the oil can last so long... you're essentially replaced a good 25% of it...
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Long and the short of it, obviously the synthetic oils (and specifically this Amsoil) are pretty amazing stuff. Not sure I'd run over 13,000 miles without an oil change on a very expensive motor like that in the V-rod.... just sounds scary to me. But obviously you can get AT LEAST 3 times the use from synthetic oil as you can get from dino oil...
 

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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #15
HOG DR said:
Just changed both bikes over to Amsoil...Rich, is Amsoil paying you for this???If not , they should...
Nope, AMSOIL is not paying me a friggin dime.

Let me also clarify my position with AMSOIL. When I did the change to AMSOIL a year ago, I bought the stuff at 8.00 bucks a quart, full retail The guy I got it from became a customer of mine for corrosion control products in August last year. He asked me if I wanted better prices, and of course I jumped on it. I had to sign a dealership paper, and then bought 4 quarts for my Sportster at a discounted price.

I have never actively sold AMSOIL, as the intent was and is still at this time to get it cheaper than fuill retail for my own use.

The tests so far on the VR motor have me thinking about becoming high profile with this stuff however, but what I want to do before I go further down that road is to discover just how far I can go with the oil in the VR.

The tests are totally unpaid for or unsolicited by AMSOIL and are being done out of my own pocket and want to know.

please understand this becuase a piece of paper was signed for a discount is what it only was, a savings of a few bucks a quart. The savings pay for the tests I guess you could say, but that is what it is.

So there is no monies that I get from anyone for this. If the motor fgoes south, so be it, you'll know and that expence is on me.

If it goes 25,000 miles or wherever on this oil, you'll know that too.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ion-man said:
With the price of several oil analysis reports, couldn't you just CHANGE your oil for less money? Unless you are being paid by amsoil to push the life of the oil to the limit. Now that you are certain that the oil holds up for extended use, wouldn't you consider something like a 10,000 mile oil change interval? That way you recoup some of the high cost of the synthetic oil with going perhaps 4X your recommended service interval. But at 10,000 miles you still are getting some nice fresh oil in the bike say once a year...

How much oil did you have to add to top off when you changed the filter? If you ended up filling up more than a quart you can see one reason the oil can last so long... you're essentially replaced a good 25% of it...
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Long and the short of it, obviously the synthetic oils (and specifically this Amsoil) are pretty amazing stuff. Not sure I'd run over 13,000 miles without an oil change on a very expensive motor like that in the V-rod.... just sounds scary to me. But obviously you can get AT LEAST 3 times the use from synthetic oil as you can get from dino oil...

Good point about being cheaper to change ut the oil, but the fact is that AMSOIL runs 8 bucks a quart, times 5 quarts works out to 40 bucks. then there is disposal issues as well.

In the year that these tests have been perfomred less than a quart has been added due to loss of oil at filter change out as well as samples being sent in. By the way, since the VR uses 5 quarts and not 4, the % you've listed is off by 5%. So to say I have added maybe 10% would be closer to the marque than the 25%.

Fresh oil versus oil that tests show are good to go means that the oil is good to go, why change it? If the report stipulates that the additives still function, there are no reported breakdowns of the oil, I would say that would be like doing a tire change out if the tires are still good.

Yes, the VR motor is an expesive motor, but are not all motors expensive when you get down right down to it?

I felt this would be a perfect test to find out what AMSOIL could do, as well as the inside advice on what the motor is up to in component wear. Since the metals discovered (aluminum) show that nothing problematic is occuring (filter change required meant the filter was bypassing, thus resulting in higher counts, not defective oil) with the motor, the base test and continued tests screams to continue running the stuff as if the motor should start having mechanical problems the tests will advise this early on.

Since these tests run 10 bucks each, it is cheap insurance that gives an owner advance notice of minor problems that could become catastrophic if ignored. That then allows one to look inside before the problem is one of breakage and great expense as well as downtime should something be found.

Like the guy who sold me the stuff said "If the oil is still good, why change it"? His recommendation holds true at this point, and another 3,000 miles or so down the road another test will be run on the the current AMSOIL in the bike and reported again.
 

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This is great, I probably wouldn't have the balls to leave the oil in there that long myself, but :thumb: :thumb: for doing this. I use amsoil and really like it. I just recently put my trucks (tractor-trailer) on amsoil and extending the intervals. Overall I can spend the same money on synthetic and have better protection for the engine. Thanks again for doing this Rich and I look forward to seeing the restults from your next test.
 

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Sorry Rich... I didn't mean to imply that the ONLY reason the Amsoil was still good was that you replaced 25% of it... Now that I look back on what I posted it does read that way, doesn't it?

Also, not to be a total sh*t, but I did say "If you ended up filling up more than a quart" which would include oil you added at the filter change, and any top off oil you have had to add due to oil consumption. If you go just a tick more than 1qt 6oz, than my statement of 25% IS correct. However, if you used much LESS than a quart (I don't know how much oil is lost during a filter change if you don't drain the oil first... I'd think MOST of it???) If you say you've added less than 10%, that's great.

That in no way takes away from the fact that I said, "...obviously the synthetic oils (and specifically this Amsoil) are pretty amazing stuff. "
 

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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #19
ion-man said:
Sorry Rich... I didn't mean to imply that the ONLY reason the Amsoil was still good was that you replaced 25% of it... Now that I look back on what I posted it does read that way, doesn't it?

Also, not to be a total sh*t, but I did say "If you ended up filling up more than a quart" which would include oil you added at the filter change, and any top off oil you have had to add due to oil consumption. If you go just a tick more than 1qt 6oz, than my statement of 25% IS correct. However, if you used much LESS than a quart (I don't know how much oil is lost during a filter change if you don't drain the oil first... I'd think MOST of it???) If you say you've added less than 10%, that's great.

That in no way takes away from the fact that I said, "...obviously the synthetic oils (and specifically this Amsoil) are pretty amazing stuff. "
I understood what you were aiming at by pointing out that interval top off when needed, and then allowing for loss during oil change. I'll go one further here, the loss was marginal with the filter. I cleaned the area like a surgery was going to be done, and when I pulled the filter I used a brand spanking new paint tray made of plastic and freshly washed to drain that oil from the filter into. I did this because I thought maybe I can see some aluminum particulate, but in the amount reported, I found out that you can't see that with the naked eye. I cut the filter in half (curious minds love to have dirty hands) to see what causes or could cause a by-pass, but I could not see anything and threw the sliced filter away. I rubbed the filtration material with my finger before dumping it, to see what would come off the filter itself, and it was just oil, no sludge or anything, and with that, no sludge was seen anywhere in the filter either.

There was little oil that came from the filter and was filtered for reuse by myself in the system. I was thinking when I did this, a coffee filter for AMSOIL, I wonder if this is going to cause problems. No problems from that at all.

Sounds crazy, but the goal I am working towards is to use as little "new" AMSOIL as possible, and to see how far I can go before the report says to change it.

The cannisters that are filled for send in hold about 3 to 6 oz of oil, and if you fill them up completely I would say no more than 8 oz, but I don't go that far. They can test it on 4 ounces, and I send in about that much.

There has been one time the motor required top off since AMSOIL was added, and I think that was because I did not fill up completely with 5 quarts. It was about a third of a quart shy, and that 1/3 was put into the motor about 1,000 miles after the last change.

By the way, the 10 bucks for the analysis also covers postage too, so it is a deal to do this. I figured I have saved about 200.00 bucks so far, a few hours driving as well as labor time for the work required to replace the oil at 3,000 mile interval.

The motor pulls as strong as ever, no new noises have been heard, no oil leaks anywhere. The darn thing just does what it is supposed to do, run.

I figured the aluminum was from chain rub caused by the cam chain tension not being tight enough, cause I am at 15,000 miles shy about 300 miles to do the clearance check for the cam and valves, but I am beginning to wonder how far I could go with that too, before the motor starts complaining. Since the aluminum reported seem to uptick from bypass, I am not sure now when I should do the cam and valve check.
 

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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter #20
slmmer09 said:
This is great, I probably wouldn't have the balls to leave the oil in there that long myself, but :thumb: :thumb: for doing this. I use amsoil and really like it. I just recently put my trucks (tractor-trailer) on amsoil and extending the intervals. Overall I can spend the same money on synthetic and have better protection for the engine. Thanks again for doing this Rich and I look forward to seeing the restults from your next test.
If this stuff is as good as they say it is, nothing like another test being done with a V-Rod to confirm the gazillion others!!

I really trust in the fact of what is written about AMSOIL, and also have trust in the fact that there is many more miles to come from the oil now in the motor.

Just be sure that if you are going to go extended, spend the money on the tests, as the tests confirm what action is required, as well as if something is going amiss in the motor, you'll get a heads up about it if it is not a catstrophic motor failure or like a spun main bearing due to other issues.

Even then, youd hear the motor complain about that, and with that, the tests I think would give you the heads up well in advance to aid in reducing dollars for an entire rebuild instead of the general area where failure could be occuring.

Gotta have trust my brotha!! :thumb: :thumb:
 
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