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Billy
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509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I constantly read of motorcycle accidents in the local paper, local news and the forum. However, the details are rarely included as to what caused the accident. The airlines re-create or reassemble every piece of an accident site to determine how it happened and what was the cause. I think a sticky thread where any accident was described with facts about the cause no matter what the cause could help a fellow rider advoid a future crash. I'm not talking about gory details, just simply the facts. I recall one forum member describing making a turn on a manhole cover and he crashed. I understand that it may be common knowledge but if one single rider could benefit from it it would be worth reading. I feel we are missing out on a lot of valuable information, that could save lives and heart-ache. What do you think?:soapbox:
 

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Vrodder since 2004
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4,514 Posts
I like to think through incidents. You never know what you might encounter. If you had some additional knowledge prior to an event you might react better. I don't have a problem with it at all.
 

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Go Cowboys!
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292 Posts
Sounds good to me.
 

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Tired of the crap
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2,819 Posts
Its a nice idea - but it won't work, and moreover it could be BAD for safety.

Why?

Unless you could compel every person who suffered an accident to tell a 100% accurate account of what happened - you are going to get a very distorted view of what causes accidents.

I've been a member of this forum for 4+ years, and I've never read a single story where the rider said "I wasn't paying attention, and lost control in a curve.." or "I hit the brakes too hard and lost control.."

The story is always "A cager pulled out in front of me.." or "there was gravel in the road.." etc. All these accidents - but never the fault of the rider. And so we end up perpetuating myths like "loud pipes save lives" and other biker bullshit. People more worried about the "cagers" - rather than improving their inadequate braking and cornering skills.

As logical human beings, we know this is not the case in the real world. In more than 60% of motorcycle accidents the rider is at fault.

So - post accident info. if you want to - but don't expect it to be an accurate representation of what causes accidents.
 

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I'm With Stupid
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966 Posts
vroddrew said:
Its a nice idea - but it won't work, and moreover it could be BAD for safety.

Why?

Unless you could compel every person who suffered an accident to tell a 100% accurate account of what happened - you are going to get a very distorted view of what causes accidents.

I've been a member of this forum for 4+ years, and I've never read a single story where the rider said "I wasn't paying attention, and lost control in a curve.." or "I hit the brakes too hard and lost control.."

The story is always "A cager pulled out in front of me.." or "there was gravel in the road.." etc. All these accidents - but never the fault of the rider. And so we end up perpetuating myths like "loud pipes save lives" and other biker bullshit. People more worried about the "cagers" - rather than improving their inadequate braking and cornering skills.

As logical human beings, we know this is not the case in the real world. In more than 60% of motorcycle accidents the rider is at fault.

So - post accident info. if you want to - but don't expect it to be an accurate representation of what causes accidents.
I haven't been on the forum long but I've seen a few posts where the rider admitted fault and you only need one good tip to help out the less experienced rider (me). In any case I don't see how this could be "BAD for safety" unless I missed something.
 

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MARK
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644 Posts
my first motorcycle accident happened in 1985, I was riding my bike in my gas station with my feet dragging on the ground I was a new rider at the time and lost control when I hit the throttle and wheelied into traffic .
lesson learned always get you feet up on the pegs....
 

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I'm With Stupid
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966 Posts
WORM said:
my first motorcycle accident happened in 1985, I was riding my bike in my gas station with my feet dragging on the ground I was a new rider at the time and lost control when I hit the throttle and wheelied into traffic .
lesson learned always get you feet up on the pegs....
OK, I could have probably figured that one out on my own but that's the idea. Lets keep em' coming folks.

P.S. Since you're still with us Worm I'm assuming the outcome wasn't too bad? :eek:
 

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Registered
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964 Posts
As much as I hate to agree with drew, he is 100% correct this time.

Self reported data is never allowed in any study or analysis. If a member were to then draw a conclusion from incorrect data that could / would be wrong as well therefore being "bad" for safety.

I have had two crashes and without a shadow of a doubt I was doing something stupid each time. I have also had several close calls and each time I avoided a crash by doing textbook stuff taught in my motorycycle saftey course. (almost 20 years in between stupid and smarter)
 

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I'm With Stupid
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966 Posts
vesteroid said:
As much as I hate to agree with drew, he is 100% correct this time.

Self reported data is never allowed in any study or analysis. If a member were to then draw a conclusion from incorrect data that could / would be wrong as well therefore being "bad" for safety.

I have had two crashes and without a shadow of a doubt I was doing something stupid each time. I have also had several close calls and each time I avoided a crash by doing textbook stuff taught in my motorycycle saftey course. (almost 20 years in between stupid and smarter)
Well I guess I did miss something. I never considered that reporting FALSE facts could lead to someone else doing the wrong thing.

I still think this is a good idea though. With the knowledge here on the forum I'm sure experienced people would chime in on things that didn't seem plausible when explaining the cause of an accident.
 

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Billy
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509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
vesteroid said:
As much as I hate to agree with drew, he is 100% correct this time.

Self reported data is never allowed in any study or analysis. If a member were to then draw a conclusion from incorrect data that could / would be wrong as well therefore being "bad" for safety.

I have had two crashes and without a shadow of a doubt I was doing something stupid each time. I have also had several close calls and each time I avoided a crash by doing textbook stuff taught in my motorycycle saftey course. (almost 20 years in between stupid and smarter)
We are not in the data collection business, basically we are trying to get information about how accidents happen. The idea is not about the guy with too much pride to say his almighty self screwed up, I think those story's would stand out as useless reading, however any honest piece of information could save my ass one day. I think I can filter the BS. Let's say that John V-rod did is own service and had an accident as a result (maybe he tightened his axle nuts too tight on the bearings), that post could save me the same mistake. We are only sharing experience, It happens all the time on the forum just not about safety (see post about ticking sound). I'll accept the responsibility about whats good and bad reading but please share your experiences with me.
 

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Registered
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160 Posts
3 stooges here is one for ya

3 bikers ? newbies? are riding on a great twisty road. The lead bike pulls over to warn the other two of the sharp turns ahead. Yep you probably can guess what happens next. The 2nd guy hits the first and the 3rd hits the two of them!

I have witnessed similar accidents when the lead bike moves from left or center to the right and 2nd and 3rd bike are too close to react or not paying attention.:spank:
 

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Tired of the crap
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2,819 Posts
Fatboy2V-rod said:
We are not in the data collection business
That is precisely why such a scheme wouldn't work.

The forum as it is currently works quite well already. Mechanical issues that may affect safety, for example the Fuel Line abrasion that some owners noticed on 2002-2003 bikes is well-documented, was handled in a responsible manner, and allows owners to make the appropriate decisions.

We already have a "Fallen Riders" section of the forum. If someone has an accident, and wishes to share their experiences including their thoughts on the cause they are quite free to do so. People reading these threads are free to draw their own conclusions. And, IMHO, we ought to leave it at that. Although I will also note that accident and insurance lawyers would absolutely recommend AGAINST anyone making any claims about accident causation in a forum such as this - especially if they felt that their client was in any way at fault.

Where you get into trouble is if you start doing any sort of scientific analysis based on the data that gets reported. In a somewhat extreme example of why "self-reported data" is not allowed in analysis: If you relied ONLY on self-reported data, you might come to the conclusion that playing Russian Roulette was a safe hobby. (The only people reporting would be those for whom the gun DIDN'T go off..)

If you are concerned about safety, there are many, many good sources of information to be found in books, magazine articles, and motorcycle safety courses.
 

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Registered
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222 Posts
I think part of our skills, is to learn more about the enviroment that we ride into, my first "accident" was in 1968, on at 650 Thriumph, and it was surely my fault, not because i lost control, or any direct reason to the actual riding, but mostly by not paying attention to the enviroment, that was then with a lot less vehicles around, cell phones, tinted windows, and much less stress factor, So it then should be considered part of driving skills to know were you ride and act the part, and yes i have hit the ground again a few times, now I'm older and don't do the "CRAZY" things we all have done at one time or another, and yes 90% of them were my fault, and we always one way or the other, try to "cover" the facts!!!
 

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I'm With Stupid
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966 Posts
Lots of things I hadn't considered when this thread started. That's one of the reasons this forum is so great. Don't know that I've changed my mind but I can look at this from other perspectives.
 

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Billy
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509 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
My only response to any objections is this. There are many riders whom buy their first bike and join this forum. There are many many volumes of information to be gained by using the forum and for the most part accident information is not shared. If I were a new rider and I joined the forum and a fellow member said hey why don't you check out our safety thread I would be very interested in the readings. Every rider does not know all there is to know about safety. Also there is an old saying about electricity that says "the more you know about electricity the more dangerous you become" .
That could be easily applied to cycling. All the ridng skill in the world does not guarantee you a safe return when unknowns are involved. I think it is safe to say that almost everyone has a story about a time when if such and such hadn't have happened they wouldn't be here today followed by "man, I'll never do that again".
A perfect example of that is I once followed two of my friends out of a bar on a four lane and they pulled across to the center turn lane and I followed w/o looking. When I looked up, A truck almost busted me. I'll never assume the road is clear again but I was almost a statistic. How many times a year do you think that happens. I bet more than you think and I had never even considered it a possibility. If I had read this post it could have been a practice to look for myself and not rely on others.
Overall, this was just an idea, I still think it would be worthwhile. Ride safe all.:blahblah: :blahblah:
 

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Never Late
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520 Posts
look...everyone's going back and forth about this thread. If someone wants to learn about what causes accidents or what to look out for there are many books on the subject. Go to your local book store and pick up a motorcycle learn to ride book. It will list all hazards "manhole covers included".....those books are written with years of data behind them. Read...learn ....ride safe. Better yet take a weekend riding lesson to refresh yourself.

this thread is doing nobody any good other then confuse somone. The last thing you want a new rider to do is approuch a hazard and think about the conflicting threads about what to do...or not do. If the thread is not to the point with everyone agreeing then it will cause more confusion at the time of panic!!!
 

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Dave
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248 Posts
vroddrew said:
Its a nice idea - but it won't work, and moreover it could be BAD for safety.

Why?

Unless you could compel every person who suffered an accident to tell a 100% accurate account of what happened - you are going to get a very distorted view of what causes accidents.

I've been a member of this forum for 4+ years, and I've never read a single story where the rider said "I wasn't paying attention, and lost control in a curve.." or "I hit the brakes too hard and lost control.."

The story is always "A cager pulled out in front of me.." or "there was gravel in the road.." etc. All these accidents - but never the fault of the rider. And so we end up perpetuating myths like "loud pipes save lives" and other biker bullshit. People more worried about the "cagers" - rather than improving their inadequate braking and cornering skills.

As logical human beings, we know this is not the case in the real world. In more than 60% of motorcycle accidents the rider is at fault.

So - post accident info. if you want to - but don't expect it to be an accurate representation of what causes accidents.

It's human nature to fudge or not be completely accurate regarding accidents, stories and events, and I give people a little more credit. I'm not sure where your 60% came from, however I would agree with it concerning rice rockets. Since this is a HD forum, I'm not sure your percentage would apply. I do believe most of us are intelligent enough to weed through slight fabrications and see some truth. At least it would provide all of us with some kind of insight. Don't you believe something is better than nothing? The 2000 census was short 30 million people and the most recent one was over 1.5 million. I’m sure our small group can do better than that! Regarding the myth about loud pipes, I suppose you stand with writer Bob Lowery, which I'm not going to get in to. There is a whole thread referencing his lack of perception at http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71753 . I suppose if you feel strong about that issue, you can join that discussion.
 
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