Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner

41 - 50 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
Why aren't your torque and power curves crossing around the expected 5200 (actually 5252, but none the less the chart you posted is werid)? Weird scaling?


Hmm dont know.. but i think that they didn’t hook up everything correct because it was a quick test and they don’t do daytona twintec..


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Hmm dont know.. but i think that they didn’t hook up everything correct because it was a quick test and they don’t do daytona twintec..


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
Could you post a pic of what your basic parameters are set to ? Ive done what i believe to be correct in the fuel injector calc sheet for 300KPA and its given me a pulse width value of 19.0 msec and thats using a 6.37 g/sec injector and running 8 PSI


My VE tables dont look like yours at all ??
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Has anyone in here tried the 100 KPA firmware with a 2 bar map sensor ? i read about a gut who does drag racing and that was the combo that he uses with the gen 4 unit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
Has anyone in here tried the 100 KPA firmware with a 2 bar map sensor ? i read about a gut who does drag racing and that was the combo that he uses with the gen 4 unit
That doesn't make sense. Why would you use an ECU that offers speed density tuning and use a version that only goes to ambient pressure (i.e. 100 KPA = 1 Bar = no boost...just ambient).

The whole point of the DTT and the 300 KPA version is so that you can control timing and fueling based on MAP sensor data from vacuum all the way to approximately 29.7 PSI (i.e. 3 BAR/300KPA). Admittedly I would rather have a 2 BAR/200 KPA solution for the Revo platform as 14.7 PSI of boost is more than sufficient for the majority of V-rod owners AND would provide for very high resolution tables (I am assuming the amount of table data is finite in the DTT regardless of whether you use 100 KPA or 300 KPA...but I have never used said aftermarket ECU so that is speculation on my part admittedly).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
This is my turbo map, I have Siemens Deka Injectors with rising rate fuel pressure regulator set to 3,3 barg + boost pressure.
Boost pressure max 1,4 bar.
3 bara map sensor
compression rate about 1:9,6
shell v-power fuel or equivalent
starts a little sluggish when cold but otherwise it runs just fine
good luck
Hi Mate,

Im running a sprintex charger and was taking a look at your ignition advance table on your turbo map and noticed your timing is 6 degrees more advaced than the standard map provided by DTT. Was this change made using a dyno ?
 

·
Autobanmod
Joined
·
9,871 Posts
Hi Mate,

Im running a sprintex charger and was taking a look at your ignition advance table on your turbo map and noticed your timing is 6 degrees more advaced than the standard map provided by DTT. Was this change made using a dyno ?
No.
It is quite some time ago that I worked on the maps, I did most on the road. Can't recall advancing that much, but it could be that I used different ignition mappings.
Please be more specific. To which standard map are you referring? Can you point out the differences?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
No.
It is quite some time ago that I worked on the maps, I did most on the road. Can't recall advancing that much, but it could be that I used different ignition mappings.
Please be more specific. To which standard map are you referring? Can you point out the differences?
I was looking at the JDM10 map posted on this thread.

I have attached pics of the advance table from both maps and was interested to know the process that you used when making the changes.

Thanks
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
I was looking at the JDM10 map posted on this thread.

I have attached pics of the advance table from both maps and was interested to know the process that you used when making the changes.

Thanks
A couple observations and comments:

How much boost are you running? 3 BAR is good for up to ~31 psi (assuming your map sensor actually hit 5V...not likely).

Point is, you lose resolution if you are really at 15psi or below (i.e. a 2 BAR map sensor's max). In other words, I'd rather use an appropriate sized map sensor for my intended boost range than use one too large (they all output 0-5V typically and per that screenshot I see 120 kPa to 180 kPa...so FOUR cells IF you are below 15 PSI??!). Always surprised that DTT didn't offer a 2 BAR option (or did they?), then again DTT doesn't have a lot of logic in their design (or hardware).

As for deriving timing advance values......

You need a way to determine knock/detonation without destroying your pistons/rods/block first.

Method 1: Set your timing values, make a 1/4 mile pass. Cool engine down, pull plugs, "read them" (countless articles on this ancient method showing what different colors and patterns on new plugs equal in terms of knock/lean/rich/etc).

Con to method 1: Ever pull a spark plug on the Revo engine while the engine is installed? Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I bet after two rounds of method 1 you will be at the bar drinking (and your timing values will still be crap with such limited data points).

Method 2: OEM ion-sensing system with data logging against RPM/TPS/MAP values. You can essentially road tune (or even easier, put the bike on the roller) because you can see at exactly what load cell you are seeing knock counts. From there you can either/or retard timing values, add fuel, etc until knock counts go down (or preferably are eliminated).

Con to method 2: You must use the OEM ECU. No aftermarket ECU's for our bike integrate with the OEM ion-sensing system we have from the factory. You also must get creative scaling tables to fit 200 kPa in to 100 kPa tables (and a few other issues that are resolved via creative circuitry to get baro pressure readings accurate).

Method 3: Ignorance or "listening" for knock.

Con to method 3: You can't hear a majority of knock in modern engines (especially on a loud cruiser with aftermarket exhaust AND wind noise if not on the roller). Also, by the time knock occurs that you CAN hear, it's way too late (read: damage to pistons/rods/etc have likely occurred). You need a way to monitor knock at a low level of occurrence and address BEFORE you get massive detonation (read: when you likely can hear it). Anyone that tells you otherwise has never tuned with a knock detection system. I've tuned everything from acoustic knock sensors to ion sensing systems. It's amazing how accurate they can be if used correctly (and not disabled or ignored...not kidding...some people disable the systems because they (in my opinion) can't figure out how to address knock occurrence or are unwilling to admit their fuel system is not up to snuff for the application).

One more observation from those tables you attached. NORMALLY when you tune an engine with forced induction you typically retard/decrease timing values in the higher load cells. Both tables you posted show either static or increase timing values in the higher load cells. I'd be willing to bet that if properly monitored (knock that is) the engine running with that calibration was seeing a bit (or a lot) of knock. Other possibilities however may be that was an engine with much lower compression than the stock Revo, race gas, sub ambient charge temps (i.e. air-water i/c with a iced reservoir). Point being...that's not a timing table I'd ever recommend unless you are on the roller, have a monitoring system, AND are very aware of all the elements involved with knock causing conditions.

I can't say it enough (regardless of what gas engine you are tuning): Knock is what takes the majority of "race" engine (and "tuner" engines) out. Very poor understanding of it in the industry as a whole.
 

·
Autobanmod
Joined
·
9,871 Posts
I was looking at the JDM10 map posted on this thread.

I have attached pics of the advance table from both maps and was interested to know the process that you used when making the changes.

Thanks
Yes, now I remember it. I found the big step from 150 to 120 MAP in the "original file" quite unlogic.
And if I recall it correctly there is no such step in the screaming eagle tuner maps either, that's why I kinda streamlined the values. I have no issues with this setting.
And last but not least this are not really areas where I spend much time, when I cruise I have much less MAP. And when I open throttle the boost quickly increases, this happens non-linear.
With a mechanical supercharger you have a more linear boost behavior, proportional to throttle position - so there might be a different effect.
 
41 - 50 of 50 Posts
Top