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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks! Was informed by Harley dealer that my 02 v Rod has stage 1 dealer flash. I also have the power commander v and was wondering if the map provided by dyno tune (power commander v) is the same or better than the dealer flash? I have 16g double barrel screamin eagle pipes and a k&n high flow air filter. Any experiences with dealer flash vs the power commander v?
 

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Hi folks! Was informed by Harley dealer that my 02 v Rod has stage 1 dealer flash. I also have the power commander v and was wondering if the map provided by dyno tune (power commander v) is the same or better than the dealer flash? I have 16g double barrel screamin eagle pipes and a k&n high flow air filter. Any experiences with dealer flash vs the power commander v?
Most of them 02s do have the reflash , being as the IAT relocation required it . Hard to say which is best method. Might be fine with the dealer flash as is but the only one I've had a bit of experience was it was stupid rich for fueling. Since you already have the PCV you can edit the existing cal if needed. Example. You can 0 out all the fuel table trims which means it will run basically only on the dealer flash cal settings. You can then add/remove fuel in the areas you feel you need it and leave the rest. You can also just try the PCV cal as is and then decide to leave it or modify it. Problem is, without autotune and 02 sensors or exhaust sniffers, it's guess with fuel table edits. Basically, try both and decide which runs the best. Neither will be lean enough to cause damage.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Same advice as he had last time he asked, a month ago.
Ok not sure what the point of you chastising me is? I’m very green to the terms and I don’t know what the difference is between a dealer flash vs the power commander. I’m afraid to connect the pc v given the bike seems to run very well with dealer flash, but my mileage seems to be low, and hence I’m just looking for more info on the differences. But thanks for taking the time to make me feel like an idiot, and informing others of the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Most of them 02s do have the reflash , being as the IAT relocation required it . Hard to say which is best method. Might be fine with the dealer flash as is but the only one I've had a bit of experience was it was stupid rich for fueling. Since you already have the PCV you can edit the existing cal if needed. Example. You can 0 out all the fuel table trims which means it will run basically only on the dealer flash cal settings. You can then add/remove fuel in the areas you feel you need it and leave the rest. You can also just try the PCV cal as is and then decide to leave it or modify it. Problem is, without autotune and 02 sensors or exhaust sniffers, it's guess with fuel table edits. Basically, try both and decide which runs the best. Neither will be lean enough to cause damage.
Ron
Thank you for the reply :)
 

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Ok not sure what the point of you chastising me is? I’m very green to the terms and I don’t know what the difference is between a dealer flash vs the power commander. I’m afraid to connect the pc v given the bike seems to run very well with dealer flash, but my mileage seems to be low, and hence I’m just looking for more info on the differences. But thanks for taking the time to make me feel like an idiot, and informing others of the same.
What mileage and what kind of riding? The best you would ever get is 37-40 driving like an old lady. 32 is fairly common. If you are in the 25mpg with normal riding, that is low and extremely rich and from what I've read, fairly common. PCV will not improve mileage as a rule. Their base cals are often on the rich side in the AFR tables. This can be overcome with AFR table changes in the PCV cal, and autotuning to the new values altering the PCV cal itself, creating a new PCV cal more to what you would like . This in turn modifies the injector signals to the stage 1 flash. PC cals are basically injector pulse width signal modifiers for the cal in the ECM. Otherwords, the bike still runs off of the cal in the ECM, with suggestions from the PCV cal. I'm pretty sure if you add the PCV and it's cal, it will have even worse mpg. Tuning is a long learning curve, to both understand what's going on and then to take charge and make shit happen for the better. Since it takes a long learning curve for all this, most times it's best to just find a good shop, capable of producing a decent tune. Key word here is GOOD. The world is infested with self proclaimed tuning experts but fail to deliver great results.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How’s it running now? If all is well I would leave it. If you have the cash take it to a dump for the most accurate tuning.
Seems to run very well other than the mileage. I think I’m getting 28 mpg. But I have not let my tank run dry....my fuel gauge drops from just under half to almost empty rather quickly and I seem to fill up around 90 miles, but never truly fill up 3.5 gallons. Maybe 2.25 gallons. So I’m sure I can get more mileage but afraid to let it go long enough for fear of running out of gas.
I think I will leave the factory flash and well enough alone based on the advice I’ve been getting.
 

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Seems to run very well other than the mileage. I think I’m getting 28 mpg. But I have not let my tank run dry....my fuel gauge drops from just under half to almost empty rather quickly and I seem to fill up around 90 miles, but never truly fill up 3.5 gallons. Maybe 2.25 gallons. So I’m sure I can get more mileage but afraid to let it go long enough for fear of running out of gas.
I think I will leave the factory flash and well enough alone based on the advice I’ve been getting.
Just do a reasonable mileage run on a completely full tank and then refill. Then do the math for miles and gallon. Only accurate method to know for sure.
Ron
 

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Seems to run very well other than the mileage. I think I’m getting 28 mpg. But I have not let my tank run dry....my fuel gauge drops from just under half to almost empty rather quickly and I seem to fill up around 90 miles, but never truly fill up 3.5 gallons. Maybe 2.25 gallons. So I’m sure I can get more mileage but afraid to let it go long enough for fear of running out of gas.
I think I will leave the factory flash and well enough alone based on the advice I’ve been getting.
 

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Sounds to me like you’re trusting your fuel gauge. That’s no good. Run it for a good 60 miles or so then fill it and do the math on how much you bought for the miles you got
 

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Same as I mentioned. Also, the tank is not uniform in shape. Top and bottom offer more miles viewing the gauge , then the middle section and how the gauge reflects that. It drops faster in the middle area of the tank, assuming it's working correctly to start with. Volume and mileage math is the only true method. Then you can approximate how many miles you can go on a full tank . Factor in about 1 gal as reserve. So if you have a 5 gal tank, base available safe mileage at 4 gallons.
Ron
 

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The Tank only has 3.2 gallons usable. The so called 3.7 gallon tank is 3.7 gallons with no fuel module assy. You lose .5 gallons from the module installed. That's why a lot of people upgraded to the 5 gallon tank. And if you bought a VRSC and worried about fuel economy, boy did you purchase the wrong bike. That like buying a Ferrari and asking about the gas milage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sounds to me like you’re trusting your fuel gauge. That’s no good. Run it for a good 60 miles or so then fill it and do the math on how much you bought for the miles you got
Hahaha no can’t trust that, but I suppose if I filled up with 6.75 liters or 1.5 gallons and looked at mileage that should give me a good indication of how many miles I have until true empty. Will get in that in the spring, riding days are done due to cold weather now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The Tank only has 3.2 gallons usable. The so called 3.7 gallon tank is 3.7 gallons with no fuel module assy. You lose .5 gallons from the module installed. That's why a lot of people upgraded to the 5 gallon tank. And if you bought a VRSC and worried about fuel economy, boy did you purchase the wrong bike. That like buying a Ferrari and asking about the gas milage.
Oh I don’t care about the mileage in terms of cost. It’s nickels to fill it up, and priceless to have fun! I’m looking at upgrading to a 5 gallon tank tho. 3 net of equip in the tank is just nothing.
 

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I think there's a bit of misunderstanding here - there's the fuel mileage average in miles per gallon and then there's the range in miles ridden, provided by the usable quantity of fuel in the tank ( leaving 1/2 gallon min to prevent flame-out as stated.) If you have 3.2 usable in a 3.7 tank you should be good for 100 Miles @ 31.25 Mpg. If you're getting 90 miles out of 2.25 gallons ( I doubt it Demarad1, probably 2.75 gal ? ) you'd be getting 40 Mpg and you would be riding like an old man, running lean or both. At 40 Mpg you could ride more miles than the 5 gal tank ( 4.5 Usable ) on my R Model, so that's just not correct. I never go over 120 miles in regular riding and 150 miles absolute max on the highway at very reasonable speeds, and the needle's in the red and yellow low fuel lights on, so I gotta know there is a station up ahead to even try that. If the difference in our tank quantity is about 1.3 gallons usable that's about 40 miles of increased range, so my 120 miles - 40 = 80 miles for your tank with the same reserve & fuel burn. So if you can go 90 miles you're actually doing pretty damn good. I have a mark on my fuel gauge deep in the red which leaves about .75 - 1 gallon reserve in the tank - do the same with yours leaving .5 gallon & note / mark the needle position reference then cross reference to mileage ridden since fill up and stop when either gets to your pre-established limit & you'll be OK. Gas stations behind you are like the length of the runway behind a pilot trying to land - not useful. Ride On ! (y) ;)
 

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Ok not sure what the point of you chastising me is? I’m very green to the terms and I don’t know what the difference is between a dealer flash vs the power commander. I’m afraid to connect the pc v given the bike seems to run very well with dealer flash, but my mileage seems to be low, and hence I’m just looking for more info on the differences. But thanks for taking the time to make me feel like an idiot, and informing others of the same.
Chuckle, Welcome to the forum. If you're looking for improved gas mileage you bought the wrong bike, and combo. These things stock will suck down the gas when you turn up the wick. If I tool around the local hills, bogging it and keeping the revs down and speed below 50 I can get 50 mpg. However if there is any hwy time that rapidly drops to the 30-35 mpg range. Nature of the beast.
Enjoy your ride.
 

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I never trust the gas gauge.
After filling up the tank I'll flip to the trip/mileage counter and set it back to zero. When I'm at 120 miles it's time to fill up again......
 
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