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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So after blowing the engine after a misguided alcohol influenced failed attempt at a supercharger install (piston hit intake valve broke valve off in cylinder and punched in the piston and blew out the cylinder wall) I purchased a used engine off ebay.

The original engine had screaming eagle heads, Rinehart racing 2 into 2 wide open exhausts so straight pipe basically. Open top with airbox cut down to size of air filter.

Only difference between the two engines other than the heads is the input air sensor is mounted on the front head down in the valley between two cylinders instead of on airbox. A 2002 engine. I left sensor plugged in and continued using the one I glued in airbox lid.

Thanks to TaxManHog finally got it running after splitting the cases couple times. There is a thread on that here somewhere.

Now here is my issue(s).

It obviously needs a new fuel map bigtime. Max speed with throttle almost wide open is about 77 to 80 mps.. Im getting less than 30 mpg. Have to rev it pretty high to have enough power in first to get rolling and it is way louder than it ever was. ANnoys me even much less people I ride by. And coming off throttle will die everytime. It will idle if I'm not coming off higher rpms. Coming up to stop lights if I don't nurse it it will die.

Took it to harley to download a new fuel map. I had the map I needed. They hooked the power vision to it and it starts to read ecm then says no ecm found. Guy tried for 2 and a half hours to get it to connect to ecm. He told me I had a bad ecm and I said then how did I just ride it here? Then bike wouldn't start for half an hour ..Something with security system got jacked up. Told him let it sit for half an hour after removing maxi fuse and then it started right up.

He didn't want to touch it after that. Im a disabled veteran and to the guys credit so is he so he didn't charge me anything for 3 hours of his time. WOuldnt even take a 20 dollar bill.

Said all that to say this.

I cant afford a pc3 or PC 5 or powervision license right now. I have 6 weeks to finish auto deisel tech school and need to have bike running to get to school and back.

SO,,,, I know I need to restrict airflow thru this engine. Thats major problem.

So without spending much money or any money any suggestions on restricting airflow in the intake a bit? And restricting exhaust using washers maybe? If I had slip ons I would install that homemade baffle using I thumbscrew I read about. Also when ideling I can feel at back of exhaust lot more exhaust pressure than it used to have..

Any thoughts?


I trimmed airbox to what you see here and pic of the exhaust

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow, need to ponder all of this. Not airbox or exhaust or the IAT. Being a used engine , do you know for sure it's condition? Almost like it's trying to seize up, based on sound, max speed and trying to stall. Did you run this ECM in boost or something else and what tune is in the stock ECM now? Generally not being able to read the ECM is from a loss of serial data, not the issue with the ECM itself. This will show up as a code on the speedo. See if have one and what number it is.
Ron
Ahh codes.. got a couple...

I have installed daymaker led headlight, front has the led turn signals double as driving lights, rear I deleted the dogs ass and have the single led tail light with built in turn signals.

i was getting the following codes

u1064 (loss of serial data)
u1255 (missing response at TSSM)

p1354 (rear coil not at voltage)

b1121 (left turn signal)
b1122 (right turn signal)
b1131 (current alarm output low)
b1096 (don't know)

Last night I took all the LED accent lights off and any other accessories then cleared all the codes. Went out there just now started her up (she starts right up and idles fine) and shut it down (didn't ride it) and got this:

p0113 (iat I didn't have it plugged in)
p1354 (rear coil)

b1121 (left turn signal)
b1122 (right turn signal)
b1131 (I turned power on before I disabled alarm)


I know I need to restrict airflow as SE heads have better airflow and it needs some exhaust backpressure.

the map on ecm is a modified stage 2 for supercharger unless dealer just told me that billed me and left stage one on there. Which is very possible. Supercharger was on bike a total of 2 hours.

Next time I see a bad ass idea like the supercharger headed toward me Im going to duck. lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
here is convo taxmanhog and i just had

As to reducing airflow ....... putting some duct tape on a portion of the outside of the air filter should give you some restriction, how much to tape off I could not say, a dyno tune while doing that could determine the air to fuel ratio as you adjusted the amount of taped off area. Would this solve your problem, not certain it will as you may have bigger problems.

The shop manual has a whole list of items to check with a poor running engine like:
  • Crank position sensor, bad or intermittent
  • Crank-key missing or broken allowing rotor to move out of position, effecting ignition timing.
  • Coil, ECM, or MAP sensor.
  • Weak or broken valve springs
Need some clarification:

Did the poor performance, such as low power to get rolling, 70 to 80 MPH speed limitation and failure to idle smoothly start from the time you put the replacement engine in, or did the poor performance creep up over time?

I ask, because if it's been running like this from the get go then possibly it's also issue with cam timing or ignition timing.

The incorrect map (stock tune) on a bike with free flowing pipes and low restriction air intake is going to run lean, it might run ok for several hundred miles, but at some point the lean conditions could cause harm to the engine, damage valves and or piston/rings.

Proving that out can be done with a compression test.
NOTE if the front cam has a exhaust compression release per original design and you did not remove it from the exhaust cam, you should get the following pressures in compression test.
Front: upper limit=137 psi, middle range=125 psi, low limit=113 psi
Rear: upper limit=247 psi, middle range=225 psi, low limit=203 psi

If the front exhaust cam has the release deleted, then the front cylinder values ill be similar to the rear.

Also a LEAK DOWN test showing less than 15% leak rate is a good sign, higher indicates problems with valves seating, piston rings worn or hole in a piston all caused by excessive lean running conditions or high mileage wear.

The procedures for doing the compression and leak down test are extensive and you need to pressure gauges to do it.

That's the best I can offer from a couple thousand miles away, hope you find a quick and easy solution.

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gmanvrod
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compression values written on valve covers from person I bought engine from pics below







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TaxmanHog said:
As to reducing airflow ....... putting some duct tape on a portion of the outside of the air filter should give you some restriction, how much to tape off I could not say, a dyno tune while doing that could determine the air to fuel ratio as you adjusted the amount of taped off area. Would this solve your problem, not certain it will as you may have bigger problems.

The shop manual has a whole list of items to check with a poor running engine like:
  • Crank position sensor, bad or intermittent
  • Crank-key missing or broken allowing rotor to move out of position, effecting ignition timing.
  • Coil, ECM, or MAP sensor.
  • Weak or broken valve springs
Need some clarification:

Did the poor performance, such as low power to get rolling, 70 to 80 MPH speed limitation and failure to idle smoothly start from the time you put the replacement engine in, or did the poor performance creep up over time?

I ask, because if it's been running like this from the get go then possibly it's also issue with cam timing or ignition timing.

The incorrect map (stock tune) on a bike with free flowing pipes and low restriction air intake is going to run lean, it might run ok for several hundred miles, but at some point the lean conditions could cause harm to the engine, damage valves and or piston/rings.

Proving that out can be done with a compression test.
NOTE if the front cam has a exhaust compression release per original design and you did not remove it from the exhaust cam, you should get the following pressures in compression test.
Front: upper limit=137 psi, middle range=125 psi, low limit=113 psi
Rear: upper limit=247 psi, middle range=225 psi, low limit=203 psi

If the front exhaust cam has the release deleted, then the front cylinder values ill be similar to the rear.

Also a LEAK DOWN test showing less than 15% leak rate is a good sign, higher indicates problems with valves seating, piston rings worn or hole in a piston all caused by excessive lean running conditions or high mileage wear.

The procedures for doing the compression and leak down test are extensive and you need to pressure gauges to do it.

That's the best I can offer from a couple thousand miles away, hope you find a quick and easy solution.
Im a auto diesel mechanic. No significant leak down pressure loss.

engine is good. ridden it about 100 miles
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok i just returned from riding her around for about an hour.

Same five codes.. turn signals which I know about. I have a load balancer just haven't installed it yet.

and I know rear coil a little weak but still functional.

The IAT I got hot glue on the time so going to make the wire longer and use the other one on the front head.

I followed Taxmanhog advice and restricted about 20% of the airflow with duck tape.

Made a difference

Dont need as much throttle to go from stop.

idle beautifully and didn't shut off coming off the highweay.

I could be wrong but I think I need some backp[pressure on the exhaust

I could I suppose take it back apart and install the SE heads but I have to replace the valve that broke off before.

I would rather give birth to a flaming porcupine on the floor of an igloo during a hemorrhoid attack than take her back apart AGAIN!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well for starters, there are no HD calibrations that will work with a SC. The stock ECM is only capable of 1 bar operation, not boost beyond that, unless some rather elaborate scaling is done. That's way beyond dealer skills. Don't use the oem head location for the IAT. In 2002 it was relocated and a different flash to the ECM.
10% leakdown is the most one would want to see and that's a bit high too. In the SM it states front and rear min and max psi. If cam timing is off, you won't hit those numbers.
Sounds like calibration is all wrong. Need to address the serial loss so you can load a normal cal into it for starters. Ignition timing is in the calibration so unless the map sensor is pooched, it will remain normal. You could test the map sensor but it's a pain in the ass to get at. Data logging is easier plus you can view all the engine sensors.
Coil, I'd swap it out if it's throwing a code.
Ron
top of the motor was never taken apart, just the bottom. shifter shaft
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well for starters, there are no HD calibrations that will work with a SC. The stock ECM is only capable of 1 bar operation, not boost beyond that, unless some rather elaborate scaling is done. That's way beyond dealer skills. Don't use the oem head location for the IAT. In 2002 it was relocated and a different flash to the ECM.
10% leakdown is the most one would want to see and that's a bit high too. In the SM it states front and rear min and max psi. If cam timing is off, you won't hit those numbers.
Sounds like calibration is all wrong. Need to address the serial loss so you can load a normal cal into it for starters. Ignition timing is in the calibration so unless the map sensor is pooched, it will remain normal. You could test the map sensor but it's a pain in the ass to get at. Data logging is easier plus you can view all the engine sensors.
Coil, I'd swap it out if it's throwing a code.
Ron

here is side pic with my old lady. who is starting to hate my bike...lol


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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That was on the engine when i bought it and the pics on ebay ad. Seller has a great rating and offers a one year warranty on engine
Engine sounds great. At idle. starts right up everytime.

I restricted the airflow like I said and it helped alot.

I read about how LED lights and accessories can mess with voltages on ecm and I had 5 different led light kits on her when I took her into harley . Also had mtx speaker system , and radar detector, I have since taken all that stuff off. She was lit up like a xmas tree. People would certainly see me and not run me over

I read how one rider took the screen that was used to keep leaves out of gutters and he rolled a piece of it up in a cone shape and shoved it in the exhaust for some backflow and how well it worked. Im going to try something like that.

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Engine sounds great. At idle. starts right up everytime.

I restricted the airflow like I said and it helped alot.

I read about how LED lights and accessories can mess with voltages on ecm and I had 5 different led light kits on her when I took her into harley . Also had mtx speaker system , and radar detector, I have since taken all that stuff off. She was lit up like a xmas tree. People would certainly see me and not run me over

I read how one rider took the screen that was used to keep leaves out of gutters and he rolled a piece of it up in a cone shape and shoved it in the exhaust for some backflow and how well it worked. Im going to try something like that.

View attachment 609272
Im about halfway decided to take her apart AGAIN and just put the SE heads back on her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
If it were me.... and it's not, I would not be chasing my tail with band aids. Somehow you need to be able to put a stock cal back in there and start from scratch. You need to be able to load a map of some sort at some time or you will never know what the fuel, timing, etc is at. I'm not sure how you get there at this point though. One thing that that comes to my mind is the engine warranty. If you don't have the proper map and keep attempting to band aid symptoms, your warranty will be void I'm sure. Just a thought
Ecm now works with powervision. Now I have to come up with the 299 for the license to download the map.

Im an ASE-certified auto diesel mechanic. And I still think it needs some backpressure on the exhaust.. lol

Oh I forgot to add this..

Before being a mechanic I worked on electronics and computers down to board level. And have tons of components specifically resistors of every make. Thousands of them...

So went to storage and started experimenting with resistors on the positive side of fuel injector..

Yes I know this is m adness. Tested a theory and turns out I am right to a point. Using small impedance resistors or resistor packs I could get the bike to run better and worse.

to dial it in with provision this way my great grandkids would have to finish that project.

does anyone have the electronic service manual? I have the service manual. But I can fix the turn signal load issue with the resistors if i know the load the ecm is looking for on the turn signals
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Ok went to Harley shop again the LEDs or the radar detector oor the MTX speaker system was what caused the earlier problem of reading ECM. The ECM is programmed for the screaming eagle heads and Rinehart racing exhaust, So now I have decided to put the SE heads back on. My question is this. Does anyone have some SE heads already set up they will trade or something for the ones I have? Mine are powder-coated red and have the fins jeweled already and not a whole lot of miles on them.

On the front head the intake valve was broke off when piston hit it but caused no other damage

And I still believe the exhaust needs some backpressure. :)


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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
How did you load the map via powervision in the first place? Do you have a different PV now? Any PV unit , married or not can make a log file. I suggest hooking it up. Run a log and send the file to us. Lots of data there to view afr's and sensors. You only need a license to unlock a PV so it's capable of loading a calibration.
Ron
I don't have a pv. I had harley hook theirs up and tell me what they found.

The dealer that SAID they programmed my ecm is some one loaded the ecm when I put the SE haeads and rinhart racing exhaust on bike. I suspected they charged me for modifying the ecm for SC but didn't actually do anything. But couldn't ever prove it. Turns out that is the case. I went there and confronted them about it. Didnt go well. Without going into details I almost went to jail when the cops came. Im banned from going back there when they are the ones who ripped me off.

Still believe the exhaust needs backpressure..lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Don't know what to tell you other then the dealer isn't capable of supplying a base tune for SC you had before. There are no flashed tunes beyond 1 bar pressure. Even if one was smart enough to scale a HD cal, it can only be dialed in on a dyno from that point. Not an easy cheap task.
Ron
WEll going back with the se heads. Does anyone have some setup already with the right shims and everything?
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Do I understand correctly that you're changing out the stock heads and cam from your eBay engine?
Installing the ruby red SE heads and the cams it had?
I'd assume the shims you had in the red heads should be good for the same cams it ran on originally.

OR

Are mixing the cams from the eBay engine into the red SE heads?

Read your manual, the process is detailed, measure the clearances, if adjusting is needed, acquire the shims from HD if they still have any, or check eBay for a complete tuners kit.
Installing the heads and cams that were in it as a unit..
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Those separate straight pipes are probably the worst pipe setup for the Revo engine, bar none and prone to excessive reversion. I read somewhere here the engine runs best with about 3 Psi backpressure - and thru a 2-1 exhaust system for cylinder scavenging. Long stroke low Rpm H-D airhead torque engines tolerate those pipes but they are not efficient on a 9000 Rpm hp monster. Inappropriate for the job, form over function. Install some thumbscrews in your pipes and after you get the fuel adjusted properly with the current heads and it's running well and you get some $ ahead again think about ditching those pipes and buying something good like a Bassani Road Rage or B1 you'll be amazed at how much better it pulls after you readjust the fuel for the new pipe. Good Luck with the fix sounds like you're getting there finally ! And glad you pissed off the guys at the dealer - they probably at least helped you blow up your SC engine - another reason not to use the H-D dealer they just don't get V Rods or especially boosted V Rods. :cool:
Thanks for the info. I tried putting some different size washers in the pipes with varied results. Notice how I have the LEDs on the rims? I mounted round LED devices on inside of my brake calipers front and back. ANd then I put LED strips in rear fender that reflect off the solid chrome shocks from the rear giving me extra brake lights. I have four different LED kits on the bike and when I use left turn signal all the lights on left side of the bike blink same with right side for right turn signal. Plus I have the Killer glass setup and a skull horn cover has red led for eyes. I included pics of my first vrod I got in 2002. First one in dallas to have the 100th anniversary bike. Then a pic of my second vrod I bagged.
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I have a lawsuit ready to file tomorrow on Maverick Harley Davidson for straight ripping me off and alleging that them lying about putting proper tune on the bike for a SC led to engine failure. The fact they charged me $299 for the tune and didn't do a damn thing. Plus punitive damages. My mother is/was a lawyer. Civil litigator. SHe lost less than 5 cases in 40 years and she taught me a lot before she passed and I have NEVER lost a lawsuit yet. This is not a one-off them ripping me off. I took my bike for nothing but an oil change 4 years ago and they call and said they found metal in my oil and my bike needed an engine overhaul and if I would authorize $2500 on my card they would get started on it right away. It was all a scam. I asked them to show me the supposed metal they said they found in the engine and they hand me this round thing that I have asked all over the internet if it was possible to come from somewhere in my engine. Not one person on any forum anywhere could tell me what it was. But they did tell me it didn't come out of my engine though. They brought my bike back to me in a trailer saying it wouldn't start. All of a sudden it had two bad coils. Another time I took my rims in to have new metzler tires installed. They installed both the front and bike tires backwards rolling the wrong way. When I called and bitched about it they said bring my rims back they would fix it. They took 6 days to fix it. I have not found one reputable Harley dealer/service center yet. I called all the Harley dealers in dallas fortworth to get a price to download my tune which I already had to my ecm. I gt prices from $65 for half hour labor to $399 for all kinds of shit. They spouted off a bunch of psychobabble for the higher prices and I just acted ignorant as I recorded all the calls. . Thats rediculous.
 
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