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luxlamf

· Sanctimonious
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Yeah!!!! I will have a 883 Iron in my garage next to my Vrod by this time next month!!!! I apparently am a Moron. Odd Wilie what happen to "Screw it Lets Ride" Man, Dude Willie what happened?
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/07/27/story3.html?b=1248667200^1866438

Wrong turn
Harley thought sales would pick up for Sportster, V-Rod
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - by Rich Rovito

Harley-Davidson Inc. management made a mistake when it concluded consumers would buy less expensive motorcycles during a recession, the company’s top executive acknowledged recently.

Keith Wandell, Harley-Davidson president and chief executive officer, said in an interview with The Business Journal that the company mistakenly thought the recession would push consumers toward Harley’s Sportster and other less expensive motorcycles.

The company increased production of those types of bikes, but retail sales “didn’t materialize,” he said.

Harley dealers currently have a glut of the mid-priced V-Rod models.

Instead, many consumers who have been buying Harley-Davidson motorcycles have been buying more expensive custom and touring bikes, Wandell said.

“It left us with a bigger imbalance,” he said. “We have a lot of inventory.”

As a result, Harley-Davidson will shut down final assembly operations of the Sportster and V-Rod motorcycles and V-Rod motorcycle powertrain production in Kansas City, and production of Sportster motorcycle powertrains in Wauwatosa, for 14 weeks this year, including all of the fourth quarter.

“The primary thrust of what we are doing is realigning inventory with demand,” Wandell said.

In a July 16 conference call with analysts, Harley-Davidson interim chief financial officer John Olin said the company expected a “more robust demand” for lower-priced motorcycles to “meet the needs of what we expected to be a more value-minded customer in this tough economy.”

Pulling back production of certain models protects the value of the Harley-Davidson brand, Wandell said.

A July 17 research note from Robert W. Baird & Co. Inc., Milwaukee, said as much.

“Harley-Davidson is among the most valuable brands on the planet, but excess inventory causes discounting that diminishes the brand,” wrote Baird analyst Craig Kennison.

According to Kennison, dealers indicate more motorcycles are selling below manufacturer’s suggested retail price.

“With this in mind, we like the decision to cut production and reduce dealer inventory to protect the scarcity value of the brand,” he said, adding that management made difficult decisions to put Harley-Davidson on a “path to better returns.”

“We like the commitment to protect the brand, including the production cut, and endorse the mandate to address costs,” Kennison’s note said.

Kennison said he expects Harley-Davidson’s profit per motorcycle to drop to less than $1,000 this year from nearly $3,000 during a recent stretch, which underscores the need for changes such as a major work-force reduction and potential consolidation of the plant in York, Pa. A labor contract for hourly production workers in York expires in February 2010.

Management has determined that the York operations are not competitive or sustainable. The company is studying whether additional restructuring can make the plant more efficient and viable, or whether the company should move those operations to another U.S. location. The company anticipates a decision on the York operations later this year.

Quarter results plummet

Harley-Davidson announced July 16 that second-quarter earnings plummeted 91 percent to $19.8 million, or 8 cents per share, from $222.8 million, or 95 cents per share, for the same period in 2008.

Revenue fell 27 percent to $1.15 billion.

As a result of lower shipment volume, Harley-Davidson also announced that it plans to implement additional layoffs throughout this year, including about 700 hourly production jobs. Harley-Davidson also will reduce nonproduction work force by about 300, including at its Harley-Davidson Financial Services subsidiary.
 
They must have been daft. It should have been obvious that Harleys are now a purely discretionary purchase (which I find annoying, but never mind) and as such in a recession some people will be unaffected, and others won't be buying a motorcycle.

In other words people will either say "things will recover and we still have money, let's buy the bike we were going to buy anyway" or "oops, dunno if I'll still have a job next year, really dumb time to buy a bike".

The number of people saying "Well I was going to buy a Dyna but now I'll buy a Sportster because I might not have a job next year" is limited.

Sad to hear the V-Rod has stalled. I don't see any particular reason for that, it's worrying.
 
Bah, no one knows what a VRod is! Everywhere i go it's 'what is that?' 'is it a Harley?' 'Where did you get those add-ons? (my bike is stock)'
They are very interested, but when they see the price I am sure it turns some of them away.

These two bikes are not selling for very different reasons. Dyna's are selling again for different reasons (age money factor)

I agree with what Harley is doing - they just need to ramp up a little slower - it's a damn expensive bike for this economy. They have to decide what end of the market they want to fit into - and stick to it? Do they want to be the Honda or Toyota of the motorcycle world, or do they want to be the Porsche and Mercedes?

BTW: if Porsche starts making cheap cars with the Porsche moniker(not just vw's) just to sell more that will be the death of them - it will dilute their brand... to some extent this has already happened to BMW and Mercedes.
 
Why so much attention to the Mo-Co current events? They haven't built your perfect bike since 2002.

Until Mercedes builds an Anodized Ducati, you will just have to wait.

Never met anyone that on one side of his mouth brags so fockin' loud about his A model yet the other side of his mouth has this useless hard-on for the company that manufactures it and everyone else who buys their product.
What would Freud say about this?

That is if one was inclined to take his rants seriously! :D
 
Where are all the bullshit stats on the VRSC being Harley's best selling bike?

Havn't you seen the promotion for the Sporty lately? Buy it now and trade it next year on a real Harley and get full MSRP on the trade.


Change is on the way!
 
Sad to see. And I agree, no one knows what a V-Rod is. Everywhere I go it's like "oh wtf kinda bike is that?". It's such an underated bike. They should really just make a Road Rod touring bike to keep the bagger people happy. Everyone at my dealer buys touring bikes and is at least 50 years old.
 
Eldon,
When I heard that it cemented the image that H-D considers the Sporty as a second tier bike instead of a lighter more agile alternate. I had always thought of sporty's as the pony car vs the bigtwin bagger station wagon but with that ad it is obvious H-D does not see things that way.
The Rod is a whole nother animal. It brought people like me into the H-D fold. I had seen some H-D's that I liked over the years but none that I wanted to own. After having the Rod I am even considering a big twin bagger for a 3rd bike which was not even an option before. I am still thinking the BMW or Yamaha FJR is a better fit for what I want but....... the bagger is at least on the screen now so at least from the H-D perspective by having the Rod available it did some good marketing for them.
 
They must have been daft. It should have been obvious that Harleys are now a purely discretionary purchase (which I find annoying, but never mind) and as such in a recession some people will be unaffected, and others won't be buying a motorcycle.

In other words people will either say "things will recover and we still have money, let's buy the bike we were going to buy anyway" or "oops, dunno if I'll still have a job next year, really dumb time to buy a bike".

The number of people saying "Well I was going to buy a Dyna but now I'll buy a Sportster because I might not have a job next year" is limited.

Sad to hear the V-Rod has stalled. I don't see any particular reason for that, it's worrying.
Can you name a motorcycle company that doesn't sell a discretionary product in this country?
Motorcycles are not economy vehicles,nor or they bought for a main mode of transportation.They require lots of attention,maintenance and up keep.Most people don't have the time ,money or effort to keep them up.
Our economy is in the dumps.When shitty economic situations happen in our country,people stop spending on discretionary items.The first things to go in a tight household are the play toys,then food.Look at our restaurant situation in most communitys.
It costs my wife,3 little dogs and the house products like paper,plastic,soaps and the such,$400 per month nowadays.That's a lot of money for the average lower middle class household.Imagine throwing a few children in there?
When the economy finally levels out and we see a dependable future again,we'll forget all about Harley's slow sales,might take a few years(new election time) but it will come around again.Then we can beg for 2800cc Revo based cruisers with bags and windshields all over again.:)
 
Can you name a motorcycle company that doesn't sell a discretionary product in this country?
Motorcycles are not economy vehicles,nor or they bought for a main mode of transportation.They require lots of attention,maintenance and up keep.Most people don't have the time ,money or effort to keep them up.
Our economy is in the dumps.When shitty economic situations happen in our country,people stop spending on discretionary items.The first things to go in a tight household are the play toys,then food.Look at our restaurant situation in most communitys.
It costs my wife,3 little dogs and the house products like paper,plastic,soaps and the such,$400 per month nowadays.That's a lot of money for the average lower middle class household.Imagine throwing a few children in there?
When the economy finally levels out and we see a dependable future again,we'll forget all about Harley's slow sales,might take a few years(new election time) but it will come around again.Then we can beg for 2800cc Revo based cruisers with bags and windshields all over again.:)
I buy a bike to get around. I don't like cars, they can't filter, there is nowhere to park, and it is hard to overtake. Also bike use less petrol. I gather that in the US you can't filter legally, the road network post-dates wheeled transport and as such parking is available, and most people are uses to a 55mph speed limit, so the urge to overtake is not there. And petrol is still cheap (compared to elsewhere). As such, most people buy bikes as toys, not wheels (or so I keep being told).

However most firms aren't as dependant on the US market as Harley, and as such more of their bikes are used as transport. I know plenty of people who either don't own a car or don't use one (I have one for carrying dogs, and one I just never bothered to sell). I gather that would make me a freak in the USA...

Although I try not to feel that way, I still find it vaguely galling when someone buys a perfectly good motorcycle like a V-Rod, makes it semi-usable with impractical mods, and rides it 1,000 a year. I know that's a right, it just creeps me out.

Right, I have to go buy bones to make soup for a sick dog. Naturally I will be taking my sensible, practical wheels - my V-Rod. l8r, dudes.
 
I ride a Harley now-a-days because it's a V-rod, I've ridden some of the "air-head" stuff and while I liked the look, I did not like the bike! The 883 I rode had no go, ran rough (to me). The 1200 version felt the same but shook more! The 2000 Fat boy just felt strange to be riding, no wonder the girl who owner it sold it!

I first saw the V-rod in the X-men movie, loved the look. Stunned at the price! Like all Harleys the price is high when compared with other makers. No wonder sales are down when money has got tight for all things. They are doing well not to have made a loss!
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Nowhere in the article does HD call the V-Rod and Sportster a mistake.
Sure it does cuz it Doesn't address the REAL PRoblem, The Sale people and Dealerships in general.
Because the Sales people I have ever dealt with have ALWAYS tried to direct you away from BOTH the Sportster and the VRSC models, I know this now dealing with them shopping for a 883 with the gurl the last 7 months.
"Hey We really want to look at the New 883 Iron"
"Really? Have you seen the(fill in another model)? its right over here."
"No, Thats I a pile of shite"
Its come to the POINT that I just ask Sales people When they will have one and thats all the info I want from them. Turns out they dont do that well either in that I left my name at 5 different dealerships (some Multiple Times) and only received calls from 2 and the 1 only called me AFter they realized I put a down payment on one somewhere else. "Well you can get that refunded and we like to keep business in the Neighborhood" This was after stating that the Other Dealership was a Liar for telling us the bike will be in around the 1st of Aug. According to them "We dont tell people things like that because they can be wrong" but oddly enough when He called me back the following day he informed that They Too will have one around Aug 1st. HD Hires Stooges in their showrooms. Simple, I understand a salesman TRYING to get you NOT to go to Honda or another dealership, But telling you the Bikes on Their floor are no good so buy a Dyna? No.
I dont care if a Salesman doesnt approve on my purchase etc.. Show me what I came in for and KNOW SOMETHING about it.
 
Duh? Harley Davidson selling less Sporties and V-Rods? This model year and perhaps the next? Well, yeah, so is GM and Ford and Chrysler and Microsoft and just about every other company selling less these days. Less aircraft are being sold and on and on and on. Millions have lost jobs and more to come - what don't the Harley managers get?

Selling less V-Rods? Of course Harley is selling less V-Rods - who but the folks here on 1130cc.com even knows what a V-Rod is? I live in a town of 100,000 which is build for one purpose only, oil. Hummers, H2s and H3s, Porsches, Jags, name the expensive vehicle and its here in numbers. Mustangs are a dime a dozen somewhat like small fuel efficient vehicle are as common as breathing in the real world. Between three and five thousand Harleys and somewhere around 2000 crotch rockets - yet when I drive my 09 NRS around town I'm stopped constantly, yelled at at stop lights, wanting to know what the h*ll kind of bike in that.

Believe me if folks in this town don't know what a V-Rod is, the very folks who like the best money can buy, then Harley has no one to blame but themselves.
 
Eldon,
When I heard that it cemented the image that H-D considers the Sporty as a second tier bike instead of a lighter more agile alternate. I had always thought of sporty's as the pony car vs the bigtwin bagger station wagon but with that ad it is obvious H-D does not see things that way.
The Rod is a whole nother animal. It brought people like me into the H-D fold. I had seen some H-D's that I liked over the years but none that I wanted to own. After having the Rod I am even considering a big twin bagger for a 3rd bike which was not even an option before. I am still thinking the BMW or Yamaha FJR is a better fit for what I want but....... the bagger is at least on the screen now so at least from the H-D perspective by having the Rod available it did some good marketing for them.
VERY Well Put. I could'nt agree more.:thumb::plause::plause:
 
From my limited research, dealerships seem to have a lot of inventory of V-Rod Muscles, not the A's or Nightrods. I called around recently to a lot of dealerships within three states... every one said they had a Muscle but nothing else. If anything, it seems like HD just need to shift their production of V-Rods back to the models people want, and not lump the Muscle in with the rest.
 
Sure it does cuz it Doesn't address the REAL PRoblem, The Sale people and Dealerships in general.
Because the Sales people I have ever dealt with have ALWAYS tried to direct you away from BOTH the Sportster and the VRSC models, I know this now dealing with them shopping for a 883 with the gurl the last 7 months.
"Hey We really want to look at the New 883 Iron"
"Really? Have you seen the(fill in another model)? its right over here."
"No, Thats I a pile of shite"
Its come to the POINT that I just ask Sales people When they will have one and thats all the info I want from them. Turns out they dont do that well either in that I left my name at 5 different dealerships (some Multiple Times) and only received calls from 2 and the 1 only called me AFter they realized I put a down payment on one somewhere else. "Well you can get that refunded and we like to keep business in the Neighborhood" This was after stating that the Other Dealership was a Liar for telling us the bike will be in around the 1st of Aug. According to them "We dont tell people things like that because they can be wrong" but oddly enough when He called me back the following day he informed that They Too will have one around Aug 1st. HD Hires Stooges in their showrooms. Simple, I understand a salesman TRYING to get you NOT to go to Honda or another dealership, But telling you the Bikes on Their floor are no good so buy a Dyna? No.
I dont care if a Salesman doesnt approve on my purchase etc.. Show me what I came in for and KNOW SOMETHING about it.
I don't see any of that in the article.

HD is just admitting that they misjudged the market's willingness to buy anything now, including lesser priced models which they thought would sell better.

The rest is your personal experience bike shopping, which may fit in somewhere cosmically, but stirs the sh!t for those that don't take the time to RTFA and latch onto your lead in that HD is claiming the V-Rod and Sporties are mistakes.

Wouldn't you agree misstating that HD called a bread and butter bike that's survived largely unchanged for over 50 years a mistake worth clarifying.

Adding the V-Rod to that description on a V-Rod forum just seems like you're trying to elicit negative responses from the rest of us.
 
Eldon,
When I heard that it cemented the image that H-D considers the Sporty as a second tier bike instead of a lighter more agile alternate. I had always thought of sporty's as the pony car vs the bigtwin bagger station wagon but with that ad it is obvious H-D does not see things that way.
The Rod is a whole nother animal. It brought people like me into the H-D fold. I had seen some H-D's that I liked over the years but none that I wanted to own. After having the Rod I am even considering a big twin bagger for a 3rd bike which was not even an option before. I am still thinking the BMW or Yamaha FJR is a better fit for what I want but....... the bagger is at least on the screen now so at least from the H-D perspective by having the Rod available it did some good marketing for them.
The Sporty line has been an entry point for quite some time. If you've reviewed HD's annual reports and marketing strategies you'll see they've pretty much surrendered them to growing market share by targeting new, female riders. This is the main reasons for the lower seat heights they've been introducing.

If you're seriously considering an FJR1300A go for it. Had one and it could do everything.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
No what comes down to is the MoCo not having any control over dealerships and who they hire, not having a Co email or 800# socutomers cAn call and state a problem showing they have little to no interest inThe Customer, just buy it, it's a Harley it's America and while there pick up some imported clothes and shiny bits to bolt on it. Harley is blaming the bike, me being a owner of this bike has had enough trouble getting it serviced correctly since day one, you don't think this article is speaking volumes to these shite dealers that the Revo bike is not a priority any more? It's them passing the focking buck again. Another "hey let's not take care of the problems ( the dealerships) and put out more Screw It Lets ride campaigns while the lay off entire factories of the Only quality employees they have be ause the dealerships suck

I don't see any of that in the article.

HD is just admitting that they misjudged the market's willingness to buy anything now, including lesser priced models which they thought would sell better.

The rest is your personal experience bike shopping, which may fit in somewhere cosmically, but stirs the sh!t for those that don't take the time to RTFA and latch onto your lead in that HD is claiming the V-Rod and Sporties are mistakes.

Wouldn't you agree misstating that HD called a bread and butter bike that's survived largely unchanged for over 50 years a mistake worth clarifying.

Adding the V-Rod to that description on a V-Rod forum just seems like you're trying to elicit negative responses from the rest of us.
 
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