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Old 08-26-2007, 11:25 AM   #1
Jan-Dirk
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Bank Angle Sensor

Has any V-Rod dragracer had problems with the bank angle sensor cutting of fuel / ignition at hard launches?
Is it easy to remove?
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:56 AM   #2
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I know you can't remove it.

Hogwild would be the man to talk too.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:58 AM   #3
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Jan if you think it's the tssm you can verify this by starting the bike and then un-plugging the tssm. The bike will run fine without it after it shakes hands to do the start. Then if the problem is gone you will know it's the bank angle sensor, if the problem is still there you will know the tssm isn't suspect.



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Old 08-26-2007, 12:00 PM   #4
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I just learned something
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:07 PM   #5
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It's this strange stalling problem. It appears seldom and irregularily when I give full throttle. The boost builds up to 0,6 bar (and the acceleration becomes binary) and then it's as if the ignition is being cut off for a second.
It disappears as it came - no fault codes, battery and ground connections are ok. New plugs and coils.
The problem is that I cannot reproduce the error at will.
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Dirk
It's this strange stalling problem. It appears seldom and irregularily when I give full throttle. The boost builds up to 0,6 bar and then it's as if the ignition is being cut off for a second.
It disappears as it came - no fault codes, battery and ground connections are ok. New plugs and coils.
The problem is that I cannot reproduce the error at will.
Jan place your tssm some place handy to start and unplug it and just ride with it unplugged. The bike won't need it again until the ignition is cycled. After it shakes hands for security the bike will continue to run as long as you don't cycle the key. It may help to narrow the problem down.



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Old 08-26-2007, 12:14 PM   #7
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Is the BAS a kind of steel ball like the tilt mechanism in a pinball machine? It must be partly mechanical I believe.
Should be possible to remove the ball/balance.
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:15 PM   #8
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Max, thank you - I'll give that a try
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Dirk
Is the BAS a kind of steel ball like the tilt mechanism in a pinball machine? It must be partly mechanical I believe.
Should be possible to remove the ball/balance.
Jan , Scott from Hogwild Racing could tell you more. He even has a schematic posted on how to disable it on the circuit board.



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Old 08-26-2007, 12:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Dirk
Is the BAS a kind of steel ball like the tilt mechanism in a pinball machine? It must be partly mechanical I believe.
Should be possible to remove the ball/balance.
I have read that some (Japanese) styles contain a pendulum style mech. that can be disabled by filling with silicone. Don't have any details about procedure.
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Old 09-01-2007, 03:08 PM   #11
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Jan,

Sorry for the slow reply. I don't get in here as often as before.

The Bank Angle Sensor is not mechanical. It's a solid state integrated circuit. It's a small electronic accelerometer chip. It senses acceleration (jiggling side to side) or gravity (leaning the bike over). When the TSSM is mounted in the stock orientation it can only sense sideways jiggling or leaning. Forward acceleration or breaking, or up/down bumps can't affect it unless the TSSM is mounted incorrectly. I could imagine if your motor had a lot of sideways vibration it could trigger the sensor. Or if the TSSM was not mounted solid and it was jiggling around, that could trigger it. Or if you install a sidecar and make a really hard corner (without the bike leaning over because you have a sidecar attached), that too could cause it to trigger because of the sideways G forces. That's the one that affected me.

The TSSM has a "sidecar mode" which can be set ON with a scanalyzer, or following the nutty instructions in the electrical manual, I think using your blinker switches or something line that. Anyway, in "sidecar mode", the sensor trigger point is changed so it takes more jiggling or leaning to trigger it. That works fine for normal street sidecars, but for extreme sidecar cornering it isn't enough. If it is indeed this sensor that's causing your problem (possibly due to vibration), then setting sidecar mode ON might solve your problem.

For me, setting sidecar mode ON wasn't enough, so I had to find another solution. As Max said, once the engine is running, you can unplug the TSSM and it will continue running fine. For me that "fix" wasn't good because if I stall the motor in a race, it takes too long to shut off ignition, plug it in, start it, and unplug it again. And I think when you do that, you have to wait 10 seconds for it to work again. SO . . . I had to find yet another solution. So, I tore apart the TSSM, figured out how the sensor worked, and designed a simple circuit that would bypass it. Once you get the TSSM apart (not such an easy thing), it's a fairly easy fix. I cut one pin on the sensor chip, solder on two resistors, and put the TSSM circuit board back in the plastic housing. This bypass circuit makes the TSSM think itís always level, and never jiggled. It also disables your alarm and one of the turn signal auto-off functions, which may or may not be a problem for you. Hereís what the mod looks like:





Keep in mind if you do something like this, your motor wonít shut off if your bike tips over (or crashes). The fuel pump could keep running, which due to crash damage could pump gas out onto hot exhaust and cause a fire. So, this mod can be very dangerous.

All that being said, from your description Iím not sure this is your problem. If you motor cuts out, but then starts running again two seconds later, then it canít be your TSSM. If the TSSM cuts your motor off due to the Bank Angle Sensor triggering, you canít start it again without shutting off your ignition switch and turning it back on (possibly with a 10 second wait also). If your motor only cuts out for a second or two, itís some other problem

Hope that helps!
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Old 09-03-2007, 11:15 AM   #12
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Dear Scott,

great post, many thanks!!!
It helps a lot indeed. While I do like very dangerous mods which result in potential meltdown of pistons or slipping clutches, burning tires etc... I hate soldering little resistors on tiny fiddly circuit boards, cutting pins aint no problem either but in general I cut too many...
hats off to your reverse engineering skills

You are probably right it's not the TSSM and I will need to do some data logging in order to find out more.
Good luck with your project and I hope to see more crazy stuff from you soon
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:24 AM   #13
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disable TSSM

Hi guys, I'm Francesco from Italy, I really appreciate the bank angle sensor thread, and I'm asking you if someone knows how to deceive finally the alarm, the bank sensor maintaining the turn signals, and speedo/odometer.
I'm converting my springer 2004 into carburetor and I want to eliminate every electronic and automatic function to get a simpler manual, old style bike.
I'm disturbing you because you're the only ones on the net who really opened the TSSM and try to modify it.
Many thanks
Francesco
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