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Old 07-24-2018, 09:18 PM   #16
streetrodracer
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Hey RustyG whats the diameter of that shim ? It looks close to what he's got there but yours is machined and sharp edged, looks hardened. His looks softer, rounded edges, like something off a cheap tool. Who Knows ? I would inspect the old filter, if good fly it and watch it - recheck the filter in a hundred miles or so. That's what I like about the K&P Engineering filter - got a possible issue ? Pull the filter, pop it apart, inspect for debris, check its rare earth magnet, clean & re-install. Easy Breasy - no chisel with gloves, big mess or high $ filter cutter or trip for a new disposable filter required. I'm gonna check those dimple magnets SwampBoogieDoug -
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:20 AM   #17
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Looks like the plug in the cam chain tensioner. They have been known to blow out on occasion. Easy to check, pull the alternator side cover off and take a look.

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Old 07-25-2018, 09:51 AM   #18
streetrodracer
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Elgavilan thanks now we are getting somewhere ! By blow out are you saying there is oil pressure behind this plug ? Why the circular wear evidence on it - think it was spinning in place and whatever holds it in like a circlip or swaged over the edge of it metal fell out or wore out ? It does look like it has cam chain marks ( side by side ) on it, but maybe something else made those marks - you think it could fall into the cam chain if it blew out ? Thx.
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:59 PM   #19
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Thanks to everyone who commented. Unfortunately, I no longer have the oil filter to dissect.

If you were me, what course of action would you take at this point?
1. Keep riding it and hope all hell doesn't break loose in the transmission.
2. Park it and make it a project bike, slowing tearing into the tranny/engine to investigate.
3. ???????
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:02 PM   #20
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I missed Elgavilan's comments. I will investigate if it the plug in the cam chain tensioner.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:03 PM   #21
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I pulled the alternator side cover off. Here's the photo. Can you tell me where the plug would be that might be missing?
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jeremylowe View Post
I pulled the alternator side cover off. Here's the photo. Can you tell me where the plug would be that might be missing?
The plug in question is in the area of the red circle. Stock, these are a press in plugs but I have no picture of them. This case the guy must have blown one out and converted it to a threaded pipe plug. I might add, if you have an oil pressure gauge, it would show a drop from normal if this plug blows out.
Ron
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetrodracer View Post
Hey RustyG whats the diameter of that shim ? It looks close to what he's got there but yours is machined and sharp edged, looks hardened. His looks softer, rounded edges, like something off a cheap tool. Who Knows ? I would inspect the old filter, if good fly it and watch it - recheck the filter in a hundred miles or so. That's what I like about the K&P Engineering filter - got a possible issue ? Pull the filter, pop it apart, inspect for debris, check its rare earth magnet, clean & re-install. Easy Breasy - no chisel with gloves, big mess or high $ filter cutter or trip for a new disposable filter required. I'm gonna check those dimple magnets SwampBoogieDoug -
Can't help with the dimensions of that shim. I was at a H-D dealer and had them pull one from parts and I photographed it. Wasn't as large as what was presented in post #1. It was smooth on both sides and did not have any writing on either side.
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:18 PM   #24
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Secondary cam shims are .073 thick and .544 dia. There is no way these can fall into the engine due to where they are in the assembly of the cam tensioner hydro unit.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by streetrodracer View Post
Elgavilan thanks now we are getting somewhere ! By blow out are you saying there is oil pressure behind this plug ? Why the circular wear evidence on it - think it was spinning in place and whatever holds it in like a circlip or swaged over the edge of it metal fell out or wore out ? It does look like it has cam chain marks ( side by side ) on it, but maybe something else made those marks - you think it could fall into the cam chain if it blew out ? Thx.
Yes, oil pressure pushes them out, they are just a press fit in the tensioner. When they come out they may have contact with the chain and other moving parts on their way to the sump. If you do a search on this site for "cam chain tensioner" there are quite a few threads that come up, some with pics of the plug.

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Old 07-26-2018, 10:30 AM   #26
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Revo weak spot ?!

Wow that's a crappy design Elgavilan - one of the few in the Revo engine. Glad I know it now so I'll tap and plug it on my new engine. Looking at my 1250 cases on the stand in the garage there are three ways something like that plug could get out of that sidecase area, one below & behind the tensioner, one higher into the gearbox area and one lower fwd. to the fwd. rod/crankshaft area. I doubt it made it to the higher or fwd. gearbox or crank passage because if that plug went into the gears or crank jeremy would know as it it would probably be locked up or missing a gear shift. Most likely it bounced around the chain and sprockets, fell down and out the larger aft passage to the oil sump. All this begs the question - how much engine oil pressure/flow and cam chain tension control is lost with the plug popped out ? For how many miles ? I guess Jeremy could do a very detailed inspection of chains, sprockets looking for bent links, kinks etc. ( with a small mirror & bright flashlight in a dark garage you could even inspect the crank and gearbox ) fix any problems, fit the tensioner with a threaded plug, run the engine for 100 miles or so, inspect the oil filter for debris and if none ride it and watch it. I wouldn't pull it all apart unless damage warrants it. What you guys think ?
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetrodracer View Post
Wow that's a crappy design Elgavilan - one of the few in the Revo engine. Glad I know it now so I'll tap and plug it on my new engine. Looking at my 1250 cases on the stand in the garage there are three ways something like that plug could get out of that sidecase area, one below & behind the tensioner, one higher into the gearbox area and one lower fwd. to the fwd. rod/crankshaft area. I doubt it made it to the higher or fwd. gearbox or crank passage because if that plug went into the gears or crank jeremy would know as it it would probably be locked up or missing a gear shift. Most likely it bounced around the chain and sprockets, fell down and out the larger aft passage to the oil sump. All this begs the question - how much engine oil pressure/flow and cam chain tension control is lost with the plug popped out ? For how many miles ? I guess Jeremy could do a very detailed inspection of chains, sprockets looking for bent links, kinks etc. ( with a small mirror & bright flashlight in a dark garage you could even inspect the crank and gearbox ) fix any problems, fit the tensioner with a threaded plug, run the engine for 100 miles or so, inspect the oil filter for debris and if none ride it and watch it. I wouldn't pull it all apart unless damage warrants it. What you guys think ?
I doubt very many of these plugs have popped out out of the thousands upon thousands built and the design in pretty much an industry standard method for port blocking after the machining process. The stupid TwinCams have ball bearings pressed into the cam plate to block the ports. So have you confirmend it's actually one of those plugs? I see no reason for it to have a #6 on it for a simple plug.
Ron
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:20 PM   #28
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The primary tensioner plug area is out of site but feeling the area where the plug goes doesn't seem like anything is missing. Found this picture which has a plug with a dimple in the center which is what mine feels like. I'll try to get eyes on it with a mirror and light tomorrow.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:41 AM   #29
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I checked the holes in the baffle plate/gasket for the oil pan there are 5 fwd and 5 aft drain back holes @ .875 diameter. That penny is .750 and the plug in question is smaller than that so it would eventually get to the sump and magnetic plug from the sidecase. Jeremy your photo and the dimple look similar to the plug you found, so if your plug is there could it be that the tensioner was replaced before and they did not fetch the plug out of the engine ? What year and how many miles on this bike ? Have you checked with H-D they keep pretty good maintenance records by VIN# I believe. If you turn over the engine to inspect the cam chains and gears etc. be sure to turn it in the correct direction ONLY, don't turn it backwards - if you miss something just go another turn. Get a small adjustable mirror on a stick at an auto parts store, and a small diameter mag light type flashlight. Searching " cam chain tensioner " here is great idea. Maybe the number indicates a particular plug size for the press fit ? Or an unrelated part off a tool ? Dimple does look the same.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:53 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremylowe View Post
The primary tensioner plug area is out of site but feeling the area where the plug goes doesn't seem like anything is missing. Found this picture which has a plug with a dimple in the center which is what mine feels like. I'll try to get eyes on it with a mirror and light tomorrow.
I don't think the item you found is a plug from a tensioner.

The tensioner plugs are sourced from a needle bearing case as shown in these pictures:



These are deeper than the item you found and the numbers stamped are not in the middle.
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