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Old 09-11-2019, 06:55 PM   #1
08rod
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ram air question

Anyone make or have made a ram air style pipe extruding from bike with a cone filter.i want to ditch my stock air box assembly and thought it would look good to have an intake elbow exiting past the horn cover(once removed) and facing forward with a cone filter.
Much appreciate any feedback and details thanks.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:04 PM   #2
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I would bet it would be in the way when riding. I am sure your leg would hit it. I also think it would be useless. Just take top of air box off be done.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:38 PM   #3
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you have freer flowing pipes and AF? Have you tuned it?

like posted-maybe why not go topless, dremel the edges off the bottom of the AirBox (bottomless), mod up the 2 holes that hold the front of the AB cover, lifting it an inch to let more air in around the edges?
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:44 PM   #4
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Best ram air is a turbo, most are fitted with the cone air cleaner. Does that help ?
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:44 AM   #5
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Swampboogie Doug - that right there is some funny stuff ! 08rod I'm working on a Ram Air setup for my N/A V Rod that will retain the stock airbox, but I've never heard of one with an external filter and an elbow duct to the throttle bodies and I don't think it would be even worth doing. The stock airbox is actually quite efficient and most dyno runs guys here on the site have done the engine only gains a Hp or two without it and that's with no filters on the velocity stacks - which you can't even run on the street without sucking in dirt. You can cut holes in the bottom off the air filter housing if you want to like the template for S/E Cams Kit but to me that just lets hot air in from the engine or go Motohooligan Airbox but no real performance gains are seen. Welcome to the wish I had a Turbo or Supercharger club !
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:10 PM   #6
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I've had thoughts about ditching the airbox and installing a Hilborn type scoop atop the stacks with a filter inside. Don't know how well it would work but it might look cool.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:58 AM   #7
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Who's gonna install the Hilborn Scoop first ?

WOW I'd love to see that Hilborn scoop mounted up - just mount it high enough to get ram air from above the handlebar height ! I always wondered why some wild & crazy V Rodder never did anything with velocity stacks and a clear airbox cover area where you could see them down in there - or a scoop - What the Hell the bikes 17 years along, black finned or chrome scoops on Summit Racing only $ 100-150 just need to fab up a mount so it's time !
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:47 AM   #8
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Personally I would like to try to make the vents functional. run some duct work from the Airbox to them. I have thought about going topless just have not pulled the trigger on it yet.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:53 AM   #9
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Love to know how you guys plan to tune it with such an inconsistent variances in KPA. Head wind and tail wind huge required differences in the calibration needed. This is assuming any meaningful amount of ram can be achieved.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:30 AM   #10
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Personally I would like to try to make the vents functional. run some duct work from the Airbox to them. I have thought about going topless just have not pulled the trigger on it yet.
I simply removed the pieces of plastic that are bolted over top of the screens on my Muscle. I can't say for certain that it did much, but opening up the airbox and getting more cold, dense oxygen to the intake can't hurt.
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Old 09-20-2019, 12:38 PM   #11
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Engines love cool dense air -

Ron at the end of the day I don't think there will be much of an actual pressure increase in the airbox unless someone actually gets the scoop up in clean air up above the handlebars, (that would be pretty crazy) and even then only at higher speeds - and I can't imagine doing 135 Mph with the scoop sticking up there or in the rain so it's more of a city show-off thing. I think the ideal scoop is just a way to get a consistent supply of cooler, denser ambient air in the airbox away from the hot engine - unlike running topless or with a bunch of holes drilled in the lower air box lid like with the S/E cam kit. Do you know what the max limit of the stock ECU is for barometric pressure ? A gauge installed in the airbox of any intended scoop system could probably be a good indicator of any actual pressure increase that may be beyond the ECU's ability to compensate for it. I doubt it would be out of range but the engine would certainly run better with cooler, denser air charge being fed to it, even if not slightly pressurized. Probably equal to or better than the maybe 1 Hp increase of velocity stacks only like some here see on dyno runs- I moved all my wiring and obstructions away from the bellmouth inlet on my airbox and installed vented C/F sidecovers and I believe it helped - can't hurt. Vented Muscle covers would be even better.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:36 PM   #12
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Ron at the end of the day I don't think there will be much of an actual pressure increase in the airbox unless someone actually gets the scoop up in clean air up above the handlebars, (that would be pretty crazy) and even then only at higher speeds - and I can't imagine doing 135 Mph with the scoop sticking up there or in the rain so it's more of a city show-off thing. I think the ideal scoop is just a way to get a consistent supply of cooler, denser ambient air in the airbox away from the hot engine - unlike running topless or with a bunch of holes drilled in the lower air box lid like with the S/E cam kit. Do you know what the max limit of the stock ECU is for barometric pressure ? A gauge installed in the airbox of any intended scoop system could probably be a good indicator of any actual pressure increase that may be beyond the ECU's ability to compensate for it. I doubt it would be out of range but the engine would certainly run better with cooler, denser air charge being fed to it, even if not slightly pressurized. Probably equal to or better than the maybe 1 Hp increase of velocity stacks only like some here see on dyno runs- I moved all my wiring and obstructions away from the bellmouth inlet on my airbox and installed vented C/F sidecovers and I believe it helped - can't hurt. Vented Muscle covers would be even better.
1 BAR/atmospheric pressure is the limit of the OEM ECU (assuming you don't use a 2 bar MAP sensor and scale accordingly).

At any rate, I have posted a while back that short of very high speeds (I want to say it was >125 MPH) the effect is negligible. I know flybigjet posted a Gortex like material (lets air pass, not water) to put behind the Muscle screens if you choose to remove the plastic covers, however other than "feel good" I don't see this doing anything at all of significance.
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:00 PM   #13
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freudie so yea, that's good info -where is the 1 BAR limit actually being sensed at - above or below the throttle plate ? 1 BAR is actually like .2 PSI less than standard atmospheric pressure at sea level so I'm thinking if you were lucky enough to have even slight positive pressure in the airbox it's just the delivery of cool dense air to the throttle plate - beneath it will still be a lower pressure until the throttle plate is open enough to no longer hold a vacuum - then the air being delivered from the scoop vs the air being consumed would be the only way to get above BAR and like you I think that is unlikely, but just the cooler denser air would make the engine run better kind of like a King Air Turboprop with " Pitot Cowlings " which packs ram air into the engine compressor reducing losses making it work to have to suck it in. Poor mans supercharger, really just optimizing a N/A engine. I had a Toyota with an air dam, two Mikuni Carbs enclosed in a see thru airbox fed by tubing to the air dam and it made quite an improvement to get cooler air from in front of the hot radiator. I think the ECU can handle it but where is it sensing the baro pressure ? Thx.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:00 PM   #14
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freudie so yea, that's good info -where is the 1 BAR limit actually being sensed at - above or below the throttle plate ? 1 BAR is actually like .2 PSI less than standard atmospheric pressure at sea level so I'm thinking if you were lucky enough to have even slight positive pressure in the airbox it's just the delivery of cool dense air to the throttle plate - beneath it will still be a lower pressure until the throttle plate is open enough to no longer hold a vacuum - then the air being delivered from the scoop vs the air being consumed would be the only way to get above BAR and like you I think that is unlikely, but just the cooler denser air would make the engine run better kind of like a King Air Turboprop with " Pitot Cowlings " which packs ram air into the engine compressor reducing losses making it work to have to suck it in. Poor mans supercharger, really just optimizing a N/A engine. I had a Toyota with an air dam, two Mikuni Carbs enclosed in a see thru airbox fed by tubing to the air dam and it made quite an improvement to get cooler air from in front of the hot radiator. I think the ECU can handle it but where is it sensing the baro pressure ? Thx.
The MAP sensor is in the throttle body (well bolted into it). So below the blades (which makes sense as you only care what is going into the cylinders, pressure that is).

As for colder air...ehhhh. My bike has been "topless" forever and the air box cover is anything but sealed on these bikes (read I suspect lots of fresh air enters the box just fine especially when topless).

Your airplane analogy is ok except you are dealing with much greater air pressure (due to greater speeds of course while flying) to have an appreciable difference. On this bike? No way. If you want to see an example of ram air that does something go look at the old Vance and Hines drag V-rod pictures (which is essentially not a vrod especially the engine...but hey marketing). That sucker was huge (and stuck out the side).
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:55 PM   #15
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The MAP sensor is actually in the back of the front head and comes of a tract tied into the front head intake channel. It's not on the throttle body.

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