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Old 10-23-2019, 05:53 PM   #1
6765stanley
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The direction Harley Davidson is headed? Does anyone really know!

I believe HD made a grave mistake stopping production of the Vrod. That was the only venture into the future of motorcycles HD has made in 40-years. Then what starting off to be a very strong project and a bright look to the future quickly turned into cosmetically ugly technically unchanged thing of the past.
HD stockholders should be appalled with backward thinking and direction HD continues to take. This years new HD motorcycles is a dismaljoke to the world arena of modern motorcycles.
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:13 PM   #2
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Harley has replaced the V-Rod motorcycle in several different ways, and I enjoy the direction HD has been taking in regards to putting out performance vehicles:

For the Power Cruiser style of bike, it has introduced several models:

1. The Fat Boy: Torque powerhouse in a traditional air-cooled cruiser package.
2. FXD-R: V-Rod lookalike, nowhere near the power of the V-Rod, but it has the raked dragster look.
3. The Custom: It is currently on ice, scheduled for 2021, but it seems to be a cross between the ergonomics of a Sportster and the power of a liquid-cooled 1250cc motor like the V-Rod.

As for performance and power:

1. HD is coming out with a 975cc Streetfighter. A deviation from the norm, and a step in the right direction.
2. Leaked reports of a sportbike fairing patent filed by HD also points to the possibility of them entering the sportbike market, which would be huge for the Motor Company, if priced competitively with competitive performance.

The above would prove that HD is moving in the right direction, I think, in my own opinion.

However, my own question is: is it too little too late for the Motor Company?
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:16 PM   #3
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I believe the Future Custom Model is set to be the closest replacement for the V-Rod.

It also helps that it does not have such a big rake. One of my biggest gripes about my bike is the dismal cornering and lean angle. I wanted a powerful Harley, and sacrificed agility.

More info here:

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/e...es/custom.html


NOTE: I do not in any way, shape or form, work for HD, and am not being paid for these comments (although, I wish I were).
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:33 PM   #4
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Honestly I feel part of the problem is the next gen of buyers do not know what they want. I am not bashing them. I am stating that there is so much bickering of what is needed or wanted. Cars have almost become not a car. Look at how much a car can do now with little to no driver input. The next generation of buyers want more of that but at the same time are screaming they dont want any of it but please make make more.
I read a rather lengthy actical in a Vette magazine and Ron Fellows (for those that done know super successful Vette Racer) said that though he can achive better lap times with the computer aided cars he has much more fun and feels much better about his lap times when he drives his LS7 ZO6. He said it was the most balanced Vette he ever owned. I want to compare this to the auto workd 30 years ago when everything was Front Wheel Drive. Ford made the Probe to replace the Mustang. FWD was the future and we were never going back. Now many cars are back to RWD. Where will HD fit in all of this? I understand why they have not changed. I see no advantage to buy a 2019 HD over and 1995 HD. Blue tooth and gadgets are not a reason to buy a bike. Many HD owners feel that way. Many feel the other way.
The hate over HD having aircooled bikes is absolutely ridiculous. Water cooled bike can make more power, but how much more power do you need? I am not being that guy who say never enough. The bikes they make fit the way 80% ride. I do not think that adding a water cooled motor makes any difference.
The issues with the Livewire are the same thing that other brands are dealing with. Lack of range, lack of power, lack of looks, lack of soul. Now the joke is whats the difference between a Livewire and a Hoover...There is no more dirtbag on a Hoover.

To wrap it all up, the next gen are confused and do not know what they want so all the companies are struggling. Who would have thought in the 80's giant malls would fail in 30 years? Just an observation.
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Old 10-24-2019, 07:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas3car View Post
Honestly I feel part of the problem is the next gen of buyers do not know what they want. I am not bashing them. I am stating that there is so much bickering of what is needed or wanted. Cars have almost become not a car. Look at how much a car can do now with little to no driver input. The next generation of buyers want more of that but at the same time are screaming they dont want any of it but please make make more.
I read a rather lengthy actical in a Vette magazine and Ron Fellows (for those that done know super successful Vette Racer) said that though he can achive better lap times with the computer aided cars he has much more fun and feels much better about his lap times when he drives his LS7 ZO6. He said it was the most balanced Vette he ever owned. I want to compare this to the auto workd 30 years ago when everything was Front Wheel Drive. Ford made the Probe to replace the Mustang. FWD was the future and we were never going back. Now many cars are back to RWD. Where will HD fit in all of this? I understand why they have not changed. I see no advantage to buy a 2019 HD over and 1995 HD. Blue tooth and gadgets are not a reason to buy a bike. Many HD owners feel that way. Many feel the other way.
The hate over HD having aircooled bikes is absolutely ridiculous. Water cooled bike can make more power, but how much more power do you need? I am not being that guy who say never enough. The bikes they make fit the way 80% ride. I do not think that adding a water cooled motor makes any difference.
The issues with the Livewire are the same thing that other brands are dealing with. Lack of range, lack of power, lack of looks, lack of soul. Now the joke is whats the difference between a Livewire and a Hoover...There is no more dirtbag on a Hoover.

To wrap it all up, the next gen are confused and do not know what they want so all the companies are struggling. Who would have thought in the 80's giant malls would fail in 30 years? Just an observation.
You have several good points.


But as to why HD is failing: they don't adapt with the trend.

50 years ago, HD was at the forefront of motor performance. For many Gen Y and Gen Z prospective buyers, it isn't about "how much power do you need," since the answer is "all of it." It's akin to asking, "how much money do you actually need?"

Millenials and Gen Zers want performance machines, not just cruisers. Nearly every motorcycle manufacturer has produced machines outside just one class. The Big Four all produce Standard, Dirt, Sport, Adventure, Cruisers and Naked classes. Europeans produce Adventure, Sport, Cruiser, Naked, and Standard classes. HD ONLY produces cruisers at the moment, and that's quickly becoming its downfall.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:30 PM   #6
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News: https://www.aimag.com/harleys-advent...880qu9ZuXrvoiI

Revolution® Max 1250 Engine Performance Targets
• Displacement 1250cc
• More than 145 horsepower
• More than 90 ft. lbs. peak torque
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:43 PM   #7
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Those specs are not for the street fighter you have pictured. The picture is for the Bronx streetfighter.. which is a horrible name.
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:46 PM   #8
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Those specs are not for the street fighter you have pictured. The picture is for the Bronx streetfighter.. which is a horrible name.
See the link to the article about the new bikes. At least they're stating HP & TQ numbers now that they're not so embarrassingly poor.
Quite an unappealing looking engine visually though.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...EBm_39_KkPSckg
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:33 AM   #9
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Quite an unappealing looking engine visually though.
Totally agree. Looks like something from an Airfix model kit!!
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:10 AM   #10
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Where are they going to be built?
HD have a tie up with Qiangjiang group in China to produce the rebadged Benelli/Harley.
https://advrider.com/is-harley-david...lly-a-benelli/
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:39 AM   #11
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The numbers are not embarrassing. I will hand it to H-D there. I'm simply hoping that the 1250cc makes its way into a Streetfighter platform as well. 145hp?

Why engineer a more powerful 1250cc engine, only to plop it into a street and trail bike? Give the SF that 1250cc too!!!
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:19 AM   #12
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The numbers are not embarrassing. I will hand it to H-D there. I'm simply hoping that the 1250cc makes its way into a Streetfighter platform as well. 145hp?

Why engineer a more powerful 1250cc engine, only to plop it into a street and trail bike? Give the SF that 1250cc too!!!
Crossing fingers! Nice design, could be interesting! Time will show.

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Old 11-06-2019, 12:20 PM   #13
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Why not come out with a full bore turbo, max power this is what we got thing? This ramp it up every year thing is old. for the whole life of the Evo one size, now its a few inches each year. Just build the 124 and call it a day.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:40 PM   #14
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Why not come out with a full bore turbo, max power this is what we got thing? This ramp it up every year thing is old. for the whole life of the Evo one size, now its a few inches each year. Just build the 124 and call it a day.
Economics.

By slowly rolling out slightly larger engines every couple years, H-D and others are banking on some people buying the latest and greatest, only to foolishly upgrade again in a few years.

"I gotta have that 103!". "Hey, I gotta trade in my 103 on that 110!". Hey, I gotta trade in my 110 on that 113!".

And on and on and on...
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:33 PM   #15
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So then start out at full on max and scale back knowing that some want less. The iphone stupidity, where when a new thing comes out the last one is absolute junk and your a fool for ever owning that. Overheard conversation at a sorority house. Yes I was allowed to hang out in a sorority house.
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