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Old 02-06-2019, 11:45 AM   #1
swampboogiedoug
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ported heads

Here are some shots of my heads & the Jones Cams ( Stage 3 turbo ) installed. Notice how large the base circles are. They gently open the valves rather than stressing them like the SE parts. They also use much less shim to accomplish proper lash. There are shots of both the intake and exhaust sides. This was done CNC by Wegner Engineering who did all of the Destroyer program heads. I had Scott Fitzgerald do the valve spring setup for me. The valves are 2mm oversize so I was unable to use the pieces I bought from Jones. They also used a single groove keeper so I had to get new springs and keepers ( beehives / tool steel). You need to ask your head guy which parts he needs before you buy all your parts. Final shot is of the combustion chamber showing valve clearances.. No flow bench numbers, but I would hazard 20-25% increase.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:07 PM   #2
Jan-Dirk
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Very nice, please post results
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:21 PM   #3
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Interesting!
Doug, share with us the other engine goodies...
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:21 PM   #4
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swampboogie Doug - Hey looking real good, nice top end Revo porn ! I got the Jones Stage 2 Cams so I appreciate the ramp and lash stuff - Question - Wegner did the CNC work on the original Destroyer and BB S/E Heads, of which I've got a few with his CW # on them but were you able to have him do that CNC work for you recently ? If so that's pretty cool ! I went with the AV&V valves, what you got there ?
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:21 AM   #5
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Very Sweet !
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:36 PM   #6
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The heads were done in the last year or so. Not sure whose valves they are, you would need to ask Scott. He doesn't use any second rate parts.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:28 PM   #7
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those look awesome! great pics! what size motor are they going on?
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:00 PM   #8
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Stock displacement 1130 cc ( 69 ci). With a turbo you don't need more inches, you put your $ into better parts. There are some members with stock displacement, bigger turbos & methanol blasting out over 300 hp. At 1 bar ( app 14 pounds boost) the motor thinks its twice a big.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetrodracer View Post
swampboogie Doug - Hey looking real good, nice top end Revo porn ! I got the Jones Stage 2 Cams so I appreciate the ramp and lash stuff - Question - Wegner did the CNC work on the original Destroyer and BB S/E Heads, of which I've got a few with his CW # on them but were you able to have him do that CNC work for you recently ? If so that's pretty cool ! I went with the AV&V valves, what you got there ?
Would that be Wegner in Markesan WI??
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:25 AM   #10
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Yes, I believe that's where they're located
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:25 PM   #11
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Cool I know Carl Wagner from the days that I raced late model stocks, did not know he got involved with Harley on the v-rod destroyer stuff. Less than 30 miles from me, will be stopping by there and seeing about getting them to do a set for me, Thanks for the info
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:54 PM   #12
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Ok. I GOTTA play devils advocate here...... sorry guys
Jones cams DO have a larger base circle than say SE. BUT.......I completely disagree with the "gentle ramp" line of what I consider total B.S. Hear me out........ 2 cams.... vrod, Chevy, vw, ford.... does not matter. ANYHOW.... if the cam opens the valve any given number, say .500, it must do it in the same amount of crankshaft rotation, no? So the lift being equal, and duration within say 1 or 2 degrees, the "gentle slope" cannot physically be much different. Cams are generally rated for duration from a starting point of .050, then it gives total lift. The valve will not last if it is opened too quickly, or worse yet closed too quickly. That is why heavier springs are a necessity with larger lift cams. Because the lifter MUST stay in contact with the profile of the cam. When the cam is moving faster than the lifter spring pressure is to keep in contact with the cam, that is called "valve float". That is BAD!!!!!! Because if the exhaust is not fully closed by the time the intake begins to open, they will hit each other. Anyhow....... that's another topic.
My point....smaller base circle does not NECESSARILY mean harder opening. The cam grinder can control the gentleness (or not) of opening, and / or closing (or not) but everyone must get from the same "point A" (valve just beginning to open) to "point B" (total lift) in exactly the same amount of crankshaft rotation. So, while the grind may have SLIGHTLY different profile, they must ALL get to the same result.
And............GO!!!!!!!
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnr204 View Post
Ok. I GOTTA play devils advocate here...... sorry guys
Jones cams DO have a larger base circle than say SE. BUT.......I completely disagree with the "gentle ramp" line of what I consider total B.S. Hear me out........ 2 cams.... vrod, Chevy, vw, ford.... does not matter. ANYHOW.... if the cam opens the valve any given number, say .500, it must do it in the same amount of crankshaft rotation, no? So the lift being equal, and duration within say 1 or 2 degrees, the "gentle slope" cannot physically be much different. Cams are generally rated for duration from a starting point of .050, then it gives total lift. The valve will not last if it is opened too quickly, or worse yet closed too quickly. That is why heavier springs are a necessity with larger lift cams. Because the lifter MUST stay in contact with the profile of the cam. When the cam is moving faster than the lifter spring pressure is to keep in contact with the cam, that is called "valve float". That is BAD!!!!!! Because if the exhaust is not fully closed by the time the intake begins to open, they will hit each other. Anyhow....... that's another topic.
My point....smaller base circle does not NECESSARILY mean harder opening. The cam grinder can control the gentleness (or not) of opening, and / or closing (or not) but everyone must get from the same "point A" (valve just beginning to open) to "point B" (total lift) in exactly the same amount of crankshaft rotation. So, while the grind may have SLIGHTLY different profile, they must ALL get to the same result.
And............GO!!!!!!!
All true to a point, if you start with same blank circle. But the reason the SE cams have an such aggressive ramp is that HD took the existing cam circle and ground more off the heel to gain the extra lift, whereas Jones cams start with a bigger circle in the blank in order to gain the extra lift at the peak.
It's not BS, the opening slope is gentler.
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:01 AM   #14
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Am not saying jones are a better cam. That is a proven fact. But, if two ppl raced up a mountain, one starting at sea level, and the other starting at 500 ft, with the distance being 2000 feet, the start point becomes irrelevant.
I think I stated my case fairly clearly. And I remain unconvinced that the ramp is "more gentle". Still say that statement is B.S.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnr204 View Post
Am not saying jones are a better cam. That is a proven fact. But, if two ppl raced up a mountain, one starting at sea level, and the other starting at 500 ft, with the distance being 2000 feet, the start point becomes irrelevant.
I think I stated my case fairly clearly. And I remain unconvinced that the ramp is "more gentle". Still say that statement is B.S.
Well, I suggest you get your compass out and a piece of paper and draw some circles. You will soon see. Don't see how it can be BS when there are people on here that have had failures due to the harsh opening.
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