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Old 09-19-2019, 03:44 PM   #1
johnr204
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Supercharger pitfalls??

Am considering a supercharger for my '15 muscle. Either TTS from England (I'm in U.S.) or darkside from Australia. While both use the Rotrex unit as a base, they seem differently engineered. I currently have HD S2 cams. (Runs VERY well) Will these work for the SC application? I am not interested in 100% all out race. Just a very fast daily driver. Some have mentioned heavy duty clutch friction discs, plates, and springs. Understandable. What about final drive, keeping the belt? What happens if the SC drive belt breaks? Can it limp home, or am I stuck? I think I would install ARP connecting rod bolts, and likely head bolts too, but is the engine bulletproof enough besides that? As stated, use as a daily driver. Not to say a visit to the local dragway maybe once a year or so, but no endless hard launches or shock per-se, other than me liking feeling HARD acceleration but not "beating" the bike. I'm not concerned, at this point with tuners, as I have a couple options there. My interest lies in opinions and experiences from people who have done this, not for race, just for fun. What am I not being told, or what rock haven't I looked under? Please, any (even the smarty pants) comments will be read and considered.
Thank you for your time
John
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:45 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnr204 View Post
Am considering a supercharger for my '15 muscle. Either TTS from England (I'm in U.S.) or darkside from Australia. While both use the Rotrex unit as a base, they seem differently engineered. I currently have HD S2 cams. (Runs VERY well) Will these work for the SC application? I am not interested in 100% all out race. Just a very fast daily driver. Some have mentioned heavy duty clutch friction discs, plates, and springs. Understandable. What about final drive, keeping the belt? What happens if the SC drive belt breaks? Can it limp home, or am I stuck? I think I would install ARP connecting rod bolts, and likely head bolts too, but is the engine bulletproof enough besides that? As stated, use as a daily driver. Not to say a visit to the local dragway maybe once a year or so, but no endless hard launches or shock per-se, other than me liking feeling HARD acceleration but not "beating" the bike. I'm not concerned, at this point with tuners, as I have a couple options there. My interest lies in opinions and experiences from people who have done this, not for race, just for fun. What am I not being told, or what rock haven't I looked under? Please, any (even the smarty pants) comments will be read and considered.
Thank you for your time
John
https://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440765
Very good explanation of why not to use them in post 5 from "RONVROD"
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:49 PM   #3
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Thank you. Read all comments. Seems to make sense. May put stock set back in if I can find a set.
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Old 09-20-2019, 12:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnr204 View Post
Am considering a supercharger for my '15 muscle. Either TTS from England (I'm in U.S.) or darkside from Australia. While both use the Rotrex unit as a base, they seem differently engineered. I currently have HD S2 cams. (Runs VERY well) Will these work for the SC application? I am not interested in 100% all out race. Just a very fast daily driver. Some have mentioned heavy duty clutch friction discs, plates, and springs. Understandable. What about final drive, keeping the belt? What happens if the SC drive belt breaks? Can it limp home, or am I stuck? I think I would install ARP connecting rod bolts, and likely head bolts too, but is the engine bulletproof enough besides that? As stated, use as a daily driver. Not to say a visit to the local dragway maybe once a year or so, but no endless hard launches or shock per-se, other than me liking feeling HARD acceleration but not "beating" the bike. I'm not concerned, at this point with tuners, as I have a couple options there. My interest lies in opinions and experiences from people who have done this, not for race, just for fun. What am I not being told, or what rock haven't I looked under? Please, any (even the smarty pants) comments will be read and considered.
Thank you for your time
John
John,

First check with Paul (Sales) and Richard (owner I think) at TTS about Darkside. Almost positive they use TTS kits, however I believe I read somewhere they had a custom side cover made (or still do) to put the headunit up a bit higher.

As for supporting modifications I would recommend a billet clutch basket, barnett kit, and a good main brace/girdle. From what I have seen from this forum and few of my customers that should keep you "OK" below 200 whp (tune dependent of course).

I completely hear you on your intended use as that's essentially where I am as well. Not interested in drag racing a motorcycle (I have dedicated track cars for that and I prefer metal around me going down the 1320). With that being said, I would be more concerned about detonation at WOT and EGT values at extended WOT. In other words, watch the knock counts and keep it rich up top (with decent timing retard as you go up the load table). You WILL need a good day (or two) at the dyno to get it dialed in. I'm considering adding some bungs to install 2 pyrometers while we tune my bike this winter. Curious as to EGT values, but this will be a dyno setup only as the EGT box I have is a big drag race style Digitron unit (would look hilarious on the bike on the road).

Other things to watch would be case shift. Then again IF you can see it's probably too late. I suspect a good tune and mindful eye on KR/knock count will be your friend here (that and no endless hole shots to stress the stock helical cut second gear....IF only these bikes didn't have an integrated transmission it would be on my list to upgrade.).
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Old 09-23-2019, 04:20 PM   #5
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if you want reliability then you should consider the strain the sc puts on the primary chain and tensioner.it was never designed to take the extra load of the sc.its a weak point any way.thats if youre looking for reliability and intend riding hard far from home.most dont of course but i wouldnt consider that system reliable.let alone the tuning needed to get the afrs and timing right.other wise throw it all to the wind and hope the gods are on your side.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:06 PM   #6
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if you want reliability then you should consider the strain the sc puts on the primary chain and tensioner.it was never designed to take the extra load of the sc.its a weak point any way.thats if youre looking for reliability and intend riding hard far from home.most dont of course but i wouldnt consider that system reliable.let alone the tuning needed to get the afrs and timing right.other wise throw it all to the wind and hope the gods are on your side.
I have yet to hear (or see) a revo that had chain/tensioner issues from a supercharger. Have you? Interesting data point (I can agree that it was undoubtedly NOT designed for an additional load such as a belt driving a supercharger headunit, BUT I have yet to hear it can't).

Interesting..
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:58 PM   #7
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Doesn't TTS or the Darkside version drive off of the crank, not the cam drive components?
Ron
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:17 PM   #8
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I believe the TTS & darkside to be basically the same unit. Am in the process of confirming that. As far as I can tell, it appears to me they are both driven from the crank, stator side. I believe the HM setup was driven from the cam / waterpump shaft.
Even if driven somehow from primary chain, I know of no "improvement" for that. Clutch basket, friction discs / plates, springs, and even pressure plate, but not the chain itself. I personally know of none that have failed, but I CERTAINLY do not know everything.
John
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:18 PM   #9
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Doesn't TTS or the Darkside version drive off of the crank, not the cam drive components?
Ron
Correct! The only other setup I know of is the Sprintrex (sprintex?) that runs off the water pump shaft.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:08 PM   #10
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Correct! The only other setup I know of is the Sprintrex (sprintex?) that runs off the water pump shaft.
To me, that's just wrong in many ways but it seems to work.
Ron
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by freudie1 View Post
I have yet to hear (or see) a revo that had chain/tensioner issues from a supercharger. Have you? Interesting data point (I can agree that it was undoubtedly NOT designed for an additional load such as a belt driving a supercharger headunit, BUT I have yet to hear it can't).

Interesting..
fact is ive seen it.the chain was severely worn and the tensioner munted.i guess if you have an engine that isnt subjected to long rides it will not show early,but its true.i guess the motor will blow eventually one way or the other .
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:31 PM   #12
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To me, that's just wrong in many ways but it seems to work.
Ron
i incorrecty assumed the ops sc was cam chain driven,not the crank driven unit.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:54 PM   #13
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i incorrecty assumed the ops sc was cam chain driven,not the crank driven unit.
To Ron's point (and now that I have had sleep finally)....I don't know of a s/c system for the Revo that uses anything but the crank or water pump shaft to drive it.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:11 PM   #14
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Well, bought a TTS sc today. Hopefully by next riding season I'll have it in & tuned (the hard part). Limited myself to 6 - 8 psi boost. Also planning on complete upgraded clutch, from basket to pressure plate. Barnett for some, not many ppl make the rest. Open to suggestions......
Also open to tuner suggestions. REALLY wanna keep stock ECM for timing and more importantly knock detection. BUT, I need WB 02's. It's a conundrum..............
Aslo, MUST keep stock muscle duals. With V&H slip-ons. That is non-negotiable. However, I can weld in the larger WB bungs.
What to do, what to do........
Any and all suggestions / even smartass, considered.
John
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by johnr204 View Post
Well, bought a TTS sc today. Hopefully by next riding season I'll have it in & tuned (the hard part). Limited myself to 6 - 8 psi boost. Also planning on complete upgraded clutch, from basket to pressure plate. Barnett for some, not many ppl make the rest. Open to suggestions......
Also open to tuner suggestions. REALLY wanna keep stock ECM for timing and more importantly knock detection. BUT, I need WB 02's. It's a conundrum..............
Aslo, MUST keep stock muscle duals. With V&H slip-ons. That is non-negotiable. However, I can weld in the larger WB bungs.
What to do, what to do........
Any and all suggestions / even smartass, considered.
John
Powervision with Target Tune module. Thst will get you WBO and oem knock detection/ion sensing. You will have to spend some decent dyno time determining the scaling of the tables that are pressure based (afr and timing..ve table is load based..). I have a few bikes going on the rollers this winter (vrod and a roadglide...both forced induction). Going to be fun as I haven't had much tuning time in the last few years.
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