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Old 06-25-2019, 02:42 PM   #46
rbabos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight rod rob View Post
Yeah I understand what you are saying. But find it a bit hard to believe the bearing can or should move in the case. I would think any movement would ruin the case and break the pin. I just want to use the loctite to fill the slight imperfections in the case. I am gonna run with the original bearing and loctite. Just so u guys know that oil pump cost$ 260.
I doubt there is much if any crush on this bearing installed. Case must mate up and I suspect even a few tenths crush would be tough with the small bolts used. On another note remembering my rotax days, they didn't use pins but had a groove mid point in the outer race had an oring in the center of the bearing that was compressed on torquing the halves to act as an anti rotation device. It worked fine.
Pretty sure if the case bore and bearing were measured, it would be size to size at most, needing that pin as the anti rotation part.
Ron
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:57 PM   #47
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H-D Output Bearing bitching, continued.

NRRob - make sure you wash out the new bearing's grease with WD40 because my new bearing felt perfect till I got that preservative grease outta there then I felt the "tick - tick" of the damaged balls. I almost didn't believe it but your bad bearing from H-D stock suspicion was correct. After wash out inspect the visible area of the bearing balls with a 10X magnifier and a light (it's difficult) and you have to rotate the bearing to spin the balls to inspect their entire surface - that's how I found the damage that made the ticking noise on my new bearing.

One things for sure, you don't want to put another defective H-D bearing in there, and deal with this again. The SKF bearing would be locktited in place as well so little advantage for the anti-rotation pin at that point. I'm like you I'd rather use the OEM bearing and pin but it's quite possibly pre-damaged and suspected of these failures so it's a toss up - or a toss of the dice

BTW have you assembled your two cases with just the output shaft installed to see what clearances you have around the bearing to be sure the locktite will be able to fill it and harden up ? (it's anerobic sealant so it only sets up within certain clearances unless you go with 2 part type chemical set type) I just did with only the lower case half and I would say the bearing is a "sliding fit" with the output shaft & gears put in the lower case. I tightened the two lower output shaft seal retainer Torq screws and was still able to spin the bearing with the anti-rotation pin. Having said that, if you torque all the case bolts and the 4 Torq screws there isn't a lot of play in there maybe a few thousands, unless your's is really fretted out so check it out. And yes, the bearing on the other end of the shaft can float in it's bore so the duplex output bearing can run the bearing balls down the center of both deep grooves so there's no side tracking. If it's a good new bearing it ought to last another 75K miles or more like your original bearing did, if it's a defective H-D bearing maybe 15K like your second bearing ? I'm leaning more towards a new SKF with no pin and Locktite.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:54 PM   #48
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Are these bearings hard to locate (the HD part numbered one that is)? I didn't google yet, but IF they are cheap-ish I would buy a few and see if you can find a batch that are good. It's not like you would need more than one "good" one or so to be set for a reasonable future (85K on a motorcycle is a LOT in my world, probably a decade +).

At any rate, great thread. Reminds me of my old DSM days with the engineer minded owners digging in deep to solve failures.

Just googled...they are around for about $68 and shipping.

Tempted to buy 3 and inspect for "good" ones and return the crap (if any). Should be no issue if it's not degreased/never installed.

Last edited by freudie1; 06-25-2019 at 04:57 PM. Reason: More info
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:56 PM   #49
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Gonna clean the bearing Wednesday and check it. I have not tried putting the case halves together and checkng yet. Hell I have not even started putting it together yet. I plan to be done Monday or so. I have quite a few things I will be checking. And if the bearing is faulty, I will go pinless. The date on this one is June 2019. And its not the shipping date.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:00 AM   #50
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More light at the end of the Output Bearing Tunnel -

Hey freudie1 yea, it's possible there are good bearings in the system I'm sure they're not all bad but in order to find out each bearing will have to be removed from it's packaging, washed out with WD40 and inspected. I agree I'm going to order at least one more from H-D but I'm going to bring my bad from stock bearing, show the parts Mgr. the damaged bearing balls and open, clean and inspect the new bearing right there at the parts counter so if it's bad I can return it right then, right there, otherwise they might not take it back.

NRRob Wow - that's great news you got a fresh June '19 Bearing ! I guess it proves H-D is still getting some parts in for these bikes. Maybe they are aware of this bearing defect from new stock and have purged their old stock, I ordered mine a year ago. Is that new bearing a NWG ? Someone said they were out of business but my hope is it's a different manufacturer - Thx.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:30 AM   #51
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Oops I read bearing label wrong. 1 30 2017. Is the correct date. And its the same manuf. I was the one that said I read that the company was insolvent. I dont know who if anyone is making this bearing. No biggie.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:22 PM   #52
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The Light in the Output Bearing Tunnel may be an oncoming train -

KRRob - CRAP on the date - all I can say is flush it out, clean and inspect VERY carefully with a strong mini mag light and a 10X magnifier, each ball all the way around. Yes, it's a P.I.A. but if it isn't worthy of being re-installed in your engine don't do it ! If that's a bad bearing from new H-D stock and you install it it will just start the clock on the next failure and have you back where you are at in a couple years, engine out and all apart, $ out of pocket, no riding etc. None of us want that because that's the old H-D reputation, not our fine Revolution Engine. Let us know what you find after your bearing inspection this must be resolved once and for all of us - Thx. Rob !
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:07 PM   #53
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Bearing installed.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:13 PM   #54
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Awesome Rob but a picture isn't worth a thousand words ! - or is it ? I'm assuming you washed it out, inspected, it was OK, no dents in the ball bearings, your case clearance was OK with Locktite and now you're a Happy V Rod Output Bearing Camper - Anything to add ? We are ALL Ears !! Thanks Man .
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:04 PM   #55
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Yes the bearing was ok as far as I could tell. The best way to tell is to take it apart. And u know how thats gonna work w/ Harley. It appears to be ok. Just gonna have to run w/it. Will let it run without a belt and let it lube awhile. I packed it w/ grease this time.Then gonna check the belt tension at different places. I still have a way to go before I do that.Gonna check valves now.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:57 AM   #56
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bearing

I was thinking again on that bearing. I remember running the bike one night at about 100 mph for about 20 miles. I really put it to the test at times. Needless to say it ran well. With that in mind I do mostly high way riding at speeds of about 80mph or higher at times constant.Here we go fellows, I am thinking of converting to a 30t sprocket. The bearing may take issue w/ constantly running at these speeds w/ the 28t. If you are racing quarter mile or so, it only for a short period of time. Which may be why they run them internationally. I know on the autobahn 28t would not be a good thing for a long period of time at high speed. Maybe the 30t would disperse the load differently. Since the rear sprocket is so large. Maybe the revolutions would be some what slower w/ a larger front sprocket. At least as far as the bearing is concerned. I know less rpm has to mean that the the engine and drive train are working less, which can also help with heat. Yes I have read the pros and cons of the different size sprockets. But if Harley did make them them that way, why not. They probably knew the 30t is better, but for the race propaganda they sold us on the 28t so they could compete w/ other high performance bikes. I know for a fact when my bike is in a higher rpm range the temps rise in traffic. I am starting to think the bike was designed for the 30t, hence only having the 5th gear, and everyone was talking about needing a 6th one.And I dont care what anyone says, you have to get better fuel mileage also . I have the engine mounted in frame now and I was thinking about doing this change. And another thing, be sure and check that your coolant pipes are not rubbing on your front cam cover. My pipe for the left side radiator hose was. And carved into the cover and the pipe. I caught it in time.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:37 PM   #57
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Hello Everyone
Well Its finally alive. I will ride it longer on sat before I take it on my usual daily commute.
Started engine, oil pressure cold was about 75 to 80 psi at idle on a 90deg day. Not 100 plus psi like before. I rode it around the block several times. As said earlier I went to a 30t pulley. I replaced belt rear sprocket and the cush rubber . So far I cant feel any real difference in the way it starts out. I also added a oil stabilizer this time around. Because no matter how good the oil is, it cant be best in both departments engine and gear train. The engine does sound quieter so far. But I will put that to the test Saturday. My valves did not need adjusting and has had the same clearances forever it seems. So every
one I hope you that hold on to this bike find all this helpful. If I dont write anything else. That means all is well. I may write back on the oil pressure w/ this stabilizer in it.

Rob
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Old 07-12-2019, 05:29 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight rod rob View Post
Hello Everyone
Well Its finally alive. I will ride it longer on sat before I take it on my usual daily commute.
Started engine, oil pressure cold was about 75 to 80 psi at idle on a 90deg day. Not 100 plus psi like before. I rode it around the block several times. As said earlier I went to a 30t pulley. I replaced belt rear sprocket and the cush rubber . So far I cant feel any real difference in the way it starts out. I also added a oil stabilizer this time around. Because no matter how good the oil is, it cant be best in both departments engine and gear train. The engine does sound quieter so far. But I will put that to the test Saturday. My valves did not need adjusting and has had the same clearances forever it seems. So every
one I hope you that hold on to this bike find all this helpful. If I dont write anything else. That means all is well. I may write back on the oil pressure w/ this stabilizer in it.

Rob
Why so high on oil pressure , Rob? Did you swap out to an earlier more lobe oil pump? I've never seen anything over 65 cold start and hot oil temp cruising.. Is your relief valve sticking or is it from the oil stabilizer you added? I added that shit to a snow blower once and couldn't turn the engine fast enough to start it, the oil was so thick. LOL.
Ron
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:03 PM   #59
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That was a cold start. I was saying its not over 100 anymore. I did not pay much attention after that. Will let u know Saturday
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:37 PM   #60
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Yep you're right I mis quoted its 65 to 70psi
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