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Old 03-23-2014, 12:04 AM   #1
9sec240
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Dealer botched PV tune?

Dropped my NRS off at the dealer last Tuesday. Had TAB baffled slip ons already on the bike which was running fine untuned. Had them install a high flow air filter make it topless and then dyno tune. Got the bike back today and while it rips at WOT, any throttle position below about 50% coughs, sputters and backfires. There is very little power and poor throttle response. Riding the bike is just horrible now.

So is it the tune or does going topless cause major issues?
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:15 AM   #2
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You didn't say what tuner you are using . But it has to be the tune . There are some that advise against topless , but there are many on here , including me , that run topless , somewhat open exhaust , decent tune , and the bike runs great . I have exactly that on my '06-D , just put 120 miles on it yesterday , it runs great .
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:46 AM   #3
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It's definitely the tune. I'm running new pipes and K&N topless with no tune (it's lean, I know...but 31 mpg and no high temp light so it's not too lean) and it's smooth from start to WOT with no popping on decel. I'm going to go SERT with a dealer dyno tune soon but am apprehensive about the same issue. You have a fixable issue but what kind of tuner you have dictates how much time/money your not-so-brilliant dyno-guy will need to fix it. Hopefully they'll make it right. Good luck!
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:29 AM   #4
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I had the same experience from the Stealer myself, they simply tune the bike at WOT for the AFR target, roll it away and grab a new bike that isn't a Vrod. It's pretty funny, I dropped my bike off on a Monday. I have LoJack on mine and didn't give them the FOB so I'd know when they were moving it. That happened Thursday and they called me an hour and a half after my LoJack notification to tell me the job was done and billed me for three hours of tuning. Like you said, WOT was good but the bike ran like shit through the entire RPM range. I'll never tune a bike at Harley again.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikes06rod View Post
You didn't say what tuner you are using . But it has to be the tune . There are some that advise against topless , but there are many on here , including me , that run topless , somewhat open exhaust , decent tune , and the bike runs great . I have exactly that on my '06-D , just put 120 miles on it yesterday , it runs great .
Mike
Sorry, I kind of hid that in the title. I gave them a Dyno Jet Power Vision to use to tune it. New in box never been on the bike.

I asked for the high flow air filter to be installed and asked to speak to the guy tuning the bike. He was the one who suggested going topless. I cant imagine going topless would affect the way it runs that much... unless they forgot the air temp sensor or maybe have it resting on the head. Even then, air temp correction would be across the whole tune.. not just low and mid.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokie View Post
It's definitely the tune. I'm running new pipes and K&N topless with no tune (it's lean, I know...but 31 mpg and no high temp light so it's not too lean) and it's smooth from start to WOT with no popping on decel. I'm going to go SERT with a dealer dyno tune soon but am apprehensive about the same issue. You have a fixable issue but what kind of tuner you have dictates how much time/money your not-so-brilliant dyno-guy will need to fix it. Hopefully they'll make it right. Good luck!
Awesome. Thanks for the input. I was going to put the airbox lid back on and pull the tune out but if yours runs "normally" topless, then maybe just pull the tune so I don't hurt the bike getting it back to the dealer.

The buddy I had drop me off grabbed all the take off parts for me. I had the dealer tune it with a Dyno Jet Power Vision (which I asked to be removed when they were done tuning) so it's in the box with the rest of the stuff in his Tahoe. I can't wait to see what they did with the tune.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh_Jass View Post
I had the same experience from the Stealer myself, they simply tune the bike at WOT for the AFR target, roll it away and grab a new bike that isn't a Vrod. It's pretty funny, I dropped my bike off on a Monday. I have LoJack on mine and didn't give them the FOB so I'd know when they were moving it. That happened Thursday and they called me an hour and a half after my LoJack notification to tell me the job was done and billed me for three hours of tuning. Like you said, WOT was good but the bike ran like shit through the entire RPM range. I'll never tune a bike at Harley again.
I was kind of afraid of that style of tuning. I work at a speed shop so this is what I do for a living.... just on cars though.

When I talked to their tuner, he said they would load a base map in it and get it on the dyno. I said if that is all they were doing, I could load a map on the bike myself. He then said that they tune from there. When they called me, they said it made 118 HP with just the base map and almost 122 after tuning. The service writer said he rode the bike and it rips. I can't believe he couldn't feel how bad it ran at part throttle. Maybe he just ripped it WOT around the lot.. who knows.

I wish I had access to the dealers bike dyno for an hour.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:37 AM   #8
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Topless (with the SE Stage II cutouts), relocated sensor, Amsoil filter, cerakoted pipes, Tab slip-on's. MasterTune. And a show with a dyno that knows what they're doing.

Runs fantastic. NO hesitation. NO decal pop. Lost a little max hp, but the rules of engagement going in were to tune for streetability, NOT a WOT pull at the expense of anything else.

Find a custom shop that knows what they're doing. I've never seen a H-D shop yet that put a better tune on a bike than a custom shop could do. My guy worked on the bike for almost an entire day before he was happy. You won't see that at a stealer.

Just my 0.02.

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Old 03-23-2014, 12:56 PM   #9
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Think I've found my issue... WTF???? See attached pictures. Preconfigured file from Dyno Jet on left, HD tuners changes on right.

Why on earth would you shoot for 18.1:1 AF ratios anywhere but decel??? OMG. I am going to ask for my money back on this one. Hopefully it didn't do any damage on the ride home.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:18 AM   #10
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Someone was smoking crack that day in the dyno booth lol

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Old 03-25-2014, 01:12 PM   #11
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That is totally messed up.. Un-Called for , in my book..
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:42 PM   #12
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Dealer is closed on Mondays so I went in today after work and asked for my money back. After about an hour and a half of going back and forth, they agreed to give my money back.

Still shocked that they would let someone who clearly knows nothing about tuning a bike do it.

I loaded a preconfigured Dyno Jet tune in it and it is running correctly again. Still hoping nothing was damaged from cruising at 18:1 AF ratios or whatever it actually was on the ride home.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:42 PM   #13
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Since you have the DynoJet PV1, why wouldn't you just set it to autotune and tune it while you ride it? Your experience is exactly why I bought this tuner and did all the work myself. I couldn't be happier with the results.

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artagra View Post
Since you have the DynoJet PV1, why wouldn't you just set it to autotune and tune it while you ride it? Your experience is exactly why I bought this tuner and did all the work myself. I couldn't be happier with the results.

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Autotune using the stock narrow band O2 sensors is not going to produce the best results for the full throttle high load areas of the map.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sec240 View Post
Autotune using the stock narrow band O2 sensors is not going to produce the best results for the full throttle high load areas of the map.

Maybe not the best but I bet it won't go for freaking 18:1 lol. It's not a bad system at all, it still targets 14.6 during auto tune mode and then interpolates from there to fill in even high load WOT cells. It's worth using, it just takes a few iterations.

As I have said 100 times, most "tuners" cannot and do not tune. They load a base map and then tweak the wot fuel (maybe) and send you on your way.


What a clown. I hope your bike is fine, I doubt a little cruising at that lean condition would hurt it.


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