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-   V-ROD Big Bore/Turbo/SC/NOS area (https://www.1130cc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   One out of a thousand (https://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439547)

dimebag 05-20-2019 11:52 AM

One out of a thousand
 
The first time I heard this was on this forum with an all too common situation. A new member purchases a vrod attracted by the hose power figures, and promoted as the most aggressive bike Harley ever made.

After a month or so of hard riding, which the revo takes willingly, the user wants a new set of cams to eek out a little more power. The Porsche designed motor with liquid cooling hinting that more is in bag just within reach.

Some are lucky enough to find a use or new old stock set of SE2 cams while others are present for the latest Jones Cam group buy, usually prompted after a large influx of new members build the pool up to a manageable number to off-set the production cost. But there are getting harder and harder to set up and most don’t get their cams then quickly fade away trading their vrod, down and away for another model.

Others are little more persistent and turn to a forced induction set up which nets a substantial horsepower increase. Even more persistent are those willing to push things a bit further with a set of oversize heads and cams to add to their forced induction set up.

The number further decreases in size and the scope of work increases in complexity for those willing to undertake a bored motor project. Motor removal and disassembly is required along with a machine shop to increase the bore diameter. All new internals are required plus a few extras to increase the strength and rigidity of the case. Either the willingness to pay or a mechanical proneness is required to undertake this feat. Stroking the motor is no different and slightly more complex requiring not only motor removal, machining and the new components, but the stock crank has to be sent out, re-welded and ground to the requested stroke.

Now we arrive at the one out of a thousand build; very patient, tenacious, un-compromising resolution and a lot of luck. I am within spitting distance of this goal having taken over 5 years to amass 90% of the needed parts. I’ve had to deal with life changing events that set me back months, and years but still maintained slow steady progress forward.

V-rods are hard as hell to build, parts aren’t available, knowledge is scarce (from the harley shops anyway), and support is minimal. This forum and its members have been a fantastic resource supporting this, willing to help out fellow members, either through knowledge sharing, a general discussion or the discounted liquidation of parts following their own life event. I myself have contributed as much as I can, giving my unused parts away for shipping costs when I can or providing guidance when I can.

At the center piece of my accumulated part lies the legendary 3/8 inch stoke Falicon full circle billet crank (Courtesy of Okieboy) machined from a single block of steel and continuing the counter weights around the full 360 degree radius of the crank. Besides its massive stroke, and superior strength (and weight), the full circle design allows the crank to retain more speed with the full circle portion acting as added flywheels for smoother revving and more torque. Ceramic coated CP pistons, along with Carrillo H-beam rods will be anchored in place to this gorgeously machined crank by a Fitzgerald crank brace and billet oil pan.

On the top end, 2mm oversize intake and 1.8mm oversize exhaust valves will be driven by Jones Stage 3 N/A cams. A Fitzgerald 58mm throttle body will control the airflow, while the Motohoolignas air box provides a maximal surface area to supply clean filtered air restriction free.

To transmit the power to the wheels a fully built transmission, with straight cut, harden gears will be dropped into the case and a Holymoto billet clutch basket will house an AIM lockup clutch.

While I am mechanically inclined I cannot assemble this on my own. The machine work, boring, and assembly will be conducted by Fitzgerald Motorsports and I will remove and install the motor once it’s complete. I’ve talked to Scott for years now panning and prepping for this; he is a great person, fun to chat with about all things vrod and i know my motor is in some very powerful, knowledgeable hands.

This is my final push with all the parts crated and transportation arranged for this week.

https://i.imgur.com/zN3y8yO.jpg

The build and displacement is a 1487.

:grouphug

johnr204 05-20-2019 12:10 PM

That's incredible. Please keep us posted.

mike_w 05-20-2019 01:13 PM

Glad that I'm not the only crazy one here.

Knut J 05-20-2019 01:51 PM

Popcorn thanks! :D
Love this kind of threads..

streetrodracer 05-20-2019 09:09 PM

I'm with ya all the way Dime Bag, same exact story, up until " at the center piece " then I'm out, except for the hardened 2nd gear. As much as I'd like to go to 1402 or 1487, and after many, many hours of investigation and research here on the site and elsewhere my first engine will be built by myself, and at largest a 1250 to 1350 - for a number of reasons. Later I might go big like you did but probably not as my cruising fuel range with other bikes in a group and the inability to really use that extra power where I normally ride just shuts the door above 135ish RWHp for me. Scott Fitzgerald will take care of you, I've spoke to him quite a few times, he's the real Revo deal. Best of Luck, sounds like you intend to build it right with the best parts, machining and best assembly out there and yea, keep us posted ! - we all need something to dream about at night !

dimebag 05-24-2019 04:21 PM

Thanks folks I'm very excited to finally put this into action.

Motor was picked up today and it's in the back of a semi on its way out to Ohio. Ill see what kind of pictures I can get out of Scott and throw them into an Imgur album for the forum any my own story telling.

Ya know streetrodracer I went back and forth on the displacement too, especially in 2015 when this motor first crapped out. I could have had it back on the road much sooner (and cheaper) had I gone smaller. I arrived at the 1400cc range because I was very lucky to score the 3/8th inch Falicon billet crank off an old member here.

From there it was the motor having previously sustained substantial damage from an over boosted turbocharger and a toasted piston, that it be extensive enough to warrant a new cylinder liner. The motor is originally an 1130 so id likely need it machined anyway, and if I was going to punch it, I figured I'd get the best bang for my buck.

But most importantly, 1487cc is the first Revo combination that over 90ci of displacement. I want to be able to say any fan of the FXDR that the Milwaukee-Eight can't do in 117 what the Revo does at 90.

Arbitrary number but a nice round line in the sand.

:spank:

john928 05-25-2019 06:21 AM

Can't wait to see it complete!

johnr204 05-25-2019 07:31 AM

I think that's way overkill for the revolution to kill a FXDR. A properly set-up 1250 can do that. But hey, if you wanna kill 'em go for it!!!!!!!!! I am VERY interested in the final build. And dyno sheet. Have fun man!!!!!!!!

dimebag 11-02-2019 10:25 AM

Well after some waiting, some back and forth, things have gained traction.

Block has been punched, and the components which were outstanding from the pile-o-parts i sent, have been settled on.

slow...steady...progress...

dimebag 11-02-2019 10:37 AM

Also, they may be older pictures I've posted before, but i love looking this sculpted piece of steel i will never be able to see again.

https://i.imgur.com/ffV5c4M.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tFEs59I.jpg

Moler 11-02-2019 11:35 AM

Nice, and hopefully you don't have to see it again.

streetrodracer 11-04-2019 06:09 PM

Yea, that's a beautiful piece dimebag, keep sending engine build updates ! Anyone here know the difference between a Falicon full circle crank and a Marine Industries " Pork Chop " Crank ? I've never seen any vibration, durability, power increase information on either crank - Anyone have any information or operational experience on either or both cranks ? Thanks -

Jay F 11-04-2019 08:21 PM

Sounds like an awesome build!

dimebag 11-04-2019 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streetrodracer (Post 4751355)
Anyone here know the difference between a Falicon full circle crank and a Marine Industries " Pork Chop " Crank ?

I actually called up Marine a while back to discuss their cranks. I was debating what I woukd do with my X after I finish my R, and they are currently the only ones who offer billet vrod cranks (through veerland).

Basically my understands is this is both are billet cranks, machined from a single block of forged steel exceeding the stock cranks stregenths.

The Marine uses traditional counter weights, knife edged, to allow the counter weights to slice more easily through the crank case as it reciprocates. In this way it will see less resistance than the stock crank, as the stock crank has flat faces on the counter weights. As the crankshaft turns it achieves a phenomenal velocity, similar to when you were a kid trying to spin your friends off the outside of a merry-go- around by spinning it faster. It spins at such a speed that at the tip, the outside most portion of the crank, the Air/oil mixture in the crank case becomes a thicker fluid that has to be displaced with each pass of the crank thus creating drag. As mentioned knife edging help this by reducing the drag of the crank, allowing it to cut through air/oil mixture.

The Falicon eliminates that drag all together as that volume in now occupied with steel so it never has to move the air/oil mixture out of the way.

The Marine does weighs less because there is ultimately less metal making it rev faster where the Falicon with the added weight rev slower requiring more input to affect the same increase in rotational speed. However, due to the greater mass the full circle act as flywheels and the flywheel effect comes into play. Basically once moving the Falicon would retain more energy and want to keep spinning. This would ultimately translate to more torque and smoother operation as the flywheel effect dictates that crank would want to moving at the same velocity and resist the change in velocity (conservation of momentum)

Now as far as harmonics go, don't think a crank is designed even close to its resonance frequency, but they are balanced. Can't comment on the threshold of that balance but if the rods are manufactured close enough to each other, along with the pistons being manufactured close enough to each other, then the balance offset is negligible as it is close enough.

Perhaps that last bit is an over simplification but ive no doubt someone will correct me.


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