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Old 01-14-2013, 10:19 PM   #1
DUDMAN
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Angry They tried to take her!

Laid my baby down a week before Christmas. Lost the front end taking a left turn on a fairly steep decline on a slick mountain road in the fog/drizzle. Happened so damn fast I was kissing the pavement in an instant. Bike landed on my left leg going about 25-30mph and rolled me. I recall putting my arms up in a defensive posture as the rear wheel passed over my face and then it was over. I got up and looked down at my beautiful black B on her side with miscellaneous parts scattered on the road. First "get off" in 85k miles and I had no one to blame but myself. I was pissed about damaging the bike more than anything. Spill shook me up pretty good as the bike crushed the hell out of my left leg and my right pinkie finger was mangled with what turned out to be a grotesque compound dislocation. Must have gotten my finger stuck momentarily in the rear pulley is all I can figure...lucky it didn't get ripped clean off. Leather pants, jacket and full face helmet did their job and no broken bones so really no complaint....until I got the bike to the dealer. Insurance quote was about $2k (including $700 for a new airbox cover) ...dealer quoted $10.5. Dealer says upper frame damaged. I hadn't seen any damage to the frame when reviewing the bike with the insurance adjuster so I went to take a look and they showed me where the steering stop had been hit when it went down. I looked closely....had to look real closely...and saw a slight nick, and I mean slight, on the steering stop and the powder coat had chipped off. Service manager said no go on fixing it. I couldn't believewhat I was hearing. I told him I certainly understand their liability and policy of not repairing a structurally damaged frame but this is purely cosmetic....he wasn't at all sympathetic. $1,700 for new frame plus 40 hours labor plus the other truly damaged parts (they wanted to replace anything that had a slight blemish regardless of whether it was wreck related or not) put the bike in the totalled category. The service manager could tell I was shocked and then really pissed...I bought the bike new and have taken meticulous care of her. Then the SOB had the nerve to ask if I was going to buy a new bike! I kicked him in the nuts and spent the next two days in jail...just kidding. Dealer estimate also indicated my lower left frame section was bent...it isn't. Bike is being fully restored at an indy shop for less than $1,500. Just an FYI to all of you who have older, immaculate bikes and a sentimental attachment...some will stoop to just about anything to try and take her away and sell you a new one. Greedy bastards with no conscience whatsoever. Lookin' forward to riding again in a couple of weeks and staying off the front brake on slick mountain roads!
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:38 PM   #2
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I was in the same boat. Sounds like you came out better at 25 mph than I did at 10 and glad to hear it for you. I was surprised when they told me 10k in damage and I had to fight to not let them total it. I agree people are too quick to wipe their hands of something important to you but in my case it was my insurance and not the dealer. Mine did have frame damage and the whole thing is being replaced now. Again in my case because there is a loan everything has to be replaced that was damaged. Before my additions to the bike it was a total. After I called every place I ever bought anything for the bike getting receipts it wasn't a total. Sounds like you'll be back on the road soon glad everything worked out for you. We both got a little bit of bad good luck it seems. Bad to happen in the first place but good that things might work out pretty well.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:46 PM   #3
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Glad you weren't hurt and hope you get her back just in time for spring!
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:52 PM   #4
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I wish id have come through unscathed. That's the plan. Quite a few weeks till they get it all back together. Fortunately my foot will be healed right about the same time. Any mod plans for the bike while they are nursing it back?
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:21 PM   #5
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I hear ya! I recently missed out on a '07 Night Rod that was declared "totalled" by the insurance company for the exact same chip in the p/coat. Dude's wife backed the car into it in the driveway (-5mph), knocked it off it's stand, and that was it! I have since been in contact with the new owner (I think it was sold for $4500). What a scam. Nice score on the used market though. Except the Reconstruct on the title.

Glad to hear you're healing.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:03 AM   #6
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I'm glad you guys are relatively ok. Usually, the insurance companies are the problem, and I am surprised the dealer is trying to screw you. But, I can see them not wanting to mess with it, and sell you a new one.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:38 AM   #7
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The previous owner of my bike (A close mate) had another rider rear end him while perving.
The only visible damage was a right hand indicator and a very small scratch and tyre mark
on the right hand side of the swing arm.
The dealer insisted on replacing the swing arm and the bike was off the road for six weeks.
It looks like these dealers come from the same school regardless of the country.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:54 AM   #8
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I had my bike totalled. First thing I did before anything else was negotiate the buy back price. They told me $2k. Then they started with the whole "your bike is worth $6k" crap. Fought with them for a couple of months and they finally gave me $13k for the bike. Helped a lot that the other person was completely at fault and I could have sued the crap out of them. Got my bike back and sold the parts for over $5k. Of course right now I don't have a bike, but that will be fixed eventually...

I do miss her though! She sure was pretty!


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Old 01-15-2013, 03:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUDMAN View Post
Laid my baby down a week before Christmas. Lost the front end taking a left turn on a fairly steep decline on a slick mountain road in the fog/drizzle. Happened so damn fast I was kissing the pavement in an instant. Bike landed on my left leg going about 25-30mph and rolled me. I recall putting my arms up in a defensive posture as the rear wheel passed over my face and then it was over. I got up and looked down at my beautiful black B on her side with miscellaneous parts scattered on the road. First "get off" in 85k miles and I had no one to blame but myself. I was pissed about damaging the bike more than anything. Spill shook me up pretty good as the bike crushed the hell out of my left leg and my right pinkie finger was mangled with what turned out to be a grotesque compound dislocation. Must have gotten my finger stuck momentarily in the rear pulley is all I can figure...lucky it didn't get ripped clean off. Leather pants, jacket and full face helmet did their job and no broken bones so really no complaint....until I got the bike to the dealer. Insurance quote was about $2k (including $700 for a new airbox cover) ...dealer quoted $10.5. Dealer says upper frame damaged. I hadn't seen any damage to the frame when reviewing the bike with the insurance adjuster so I went to take a look and they showed me where the steering stop had been hit when it went down. I looked closely....had to look real closely...and saw a slight nick, and I mean slight, on the steering stop and the powder coat had chipped off. Service manager said no go on fixing it. I couldn't believewhat I was hearing. I told him I certainly understand their liability and policy of not repairing a structurally damaged frame but this is purely cosmetic....he wasn't at all sympathetic. $1,700 for new frame plus 40 hours labor plus the other truly damaged parts (they wanted to replace anything that had a slight blemish regardless of whether it was wreck related or not) put the bike in the totalled category. The service manager could tell I was shocked and then really pissed...I bought the bike new and have taken meticulous care of her. Then the SOB had the nerve to ask if I was going to buy a new bike! I kicked him in the nuts and spent the next two days in jail...just kidding. Dealer estimate also indicated my lower left frame section was bent...it isn't. Bike is being fully restored at an indy shop for less than $1,500. Just an FYI to all of you who have older, immaculate bikes and a sentimental attachment...some will stoop to just about anything to try and take her away and sell you a new one. Greedy bastards with no conscience whatsoever. Lookin' forward to riding again in a couple of weeks and staying off the front brake on slick mountain roads!
That sucks brother! Bought my 05 B new would be pissed if they ever considered it "totaled"
However,before I got the B I had a 05 VTX1300C and some douchbag waited til i was about 50 feet from her before she turned left in front of me KABOOM!
My brother ended up going to the garage to where it was towed to have a look at it..It wasen't in bad shape. Forks were good,wheels,even the hugely FUGLY exhaust was not damaged,and the little green lizzard totaled it..only had 8k on it.
I was really pissed,but it turned out ok coz I ended up getting the B

Glad YOU are good to go.thats what really matters!
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:25 PM   #10
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Besides the bike, whats the lesson learned that would have prevented the fall from happening in the first place?

Not trying to rile you up about you accident, it is hard enough recovering from the shock of going down, then the injury and the bike damage on top of it.

But walking away from it, what could have been done to prevent the fall from happening?

I ride one mountian road over and over here on Oahu, and it is a challenging road even with as many passes as I have made on this particular road. I've found that shaded spots where trees have dropped leaves and small purple fruit on the road can be like ice.

When it rains, the conditions deteriorate so rapidly that one pass made after the other can find oneself lowering speed, more back brake use and downshifts while the R's are dropped results in keeping off the front brake lever with too heavy of a hand.

I am no saint at riding, that being said I always remember there are 2 types of riders, those that have been down, and those that are going to go down.

That thought has saved my ass more than once when riding conditions are severe and rapidly deteriorating.

Once your back up on the road again, my wish for you is only see the bottoms of your feet on the blacktop!
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:57 PM   #11
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Looking back on it I made somewhat of a late decision to turn left into a scenic overlook in the fog to take a leak and the road was just wet enough to have a sheen to it...not throw up spray. Not sure if I hit oil or the road just hadn't been wet enough to be washed clean but regardless I definitley grabbed too much front brake while turning and going downhill....used up all my traction and went down in a split second. I had been riding for several hours and the conditions in the mountains cycled from dry to damp to slick several times depending on the elevation and I had been telling myself all afternoon to be smooth and take it easy. Just a brief moment of inattention is all it took! If the roads had been really soaked and washed off some I don't think it would have happened....I would have been going slower probably and traction would have been better. I ride in the rain frequently....this was different and I obviously underestimated the amount of traction a just barely wet road provides. Spontaneous decisions while riding are not good. Very thankful I wasn't hurt worse and I don't plan on making that mistake again....but we rarely plan on making mistakes do we. Appreciate the feedback!
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:09 PM   #12
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The same for me. I put myself in a situation where it was probable for someone to blind side me. In the future it'll pay to be more cautious in parking lot driving and not assume even the most simple rules will be followed. Keeping myself in the open as much as possible and not moving past areas with no line of sight even parking spaces that are empty. It seems like an obvious thing now and now I feel like a big knob, but for as long as I have been riding it wasn't something I'd experienced in this manner. So quite the expensive lesson learned and good for me. Just hope things I learn in the future don't hurt as much.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUDMAN View Post
Appreciate the feedback!
It's all good to anaylize.

keep in mind on a downhill, you've increased the weight load onto the front wheel by at least 35% if not more and I would think 50% would be closer to the equation.

While the tire is not straight on the road in a turn, as the path taken throws the tire into an off center direction or towards the side wall, the skin patch of the tire can be reduced, depending on how much of a downward slope the turn is and then the degree of the turn.

It is these factors that come into play, along with tire pressure too, that throws off our riding minds.

You advised you were hours into the ride, it is easy to get "into" the ride, but not "be in the ride" as our sensory perception gets put into over drive.

Your example is the same example of an incident that happened back in December here. The rider and passenger were not on a mountain road however. They overshot the entrance to a hotel on
the north shore, the operator grabbed too much brake on the front while the wheel was at a turning angle attempting to make a U turn.

Both the rider and passenger went down and the dresser slide into a golf cart on the side of the road where a maintenance guy was working.

The operator of the bike died within hours as a friend of ours was one of the first repsonders.

Our friend has had a bad time with what he saw and is now living with as his explanation of the operators physical condition was that of being similar to a gunshot wound to the head. No helmet! The passenger was the wife of the operator, she was critical but survived.

When the road has a light mist on it, as you pointed out that is the worst condition for the road to be in. If it was blacktop, depending on the age of the surface, oils tend to rise from the black top as your aware.

If the surface was in full sun and you made it minutes after the rain started, you can bet there was oil on the surface.

The other killer is the painted stripes seen on many roadways, in the rain, these surfaces are disasters for bikers waiting to happen.

Here, the road we ride on in the mountain area, the city installed a surface to prevent drifters from using the S's...which is a really big plus for us on 2 wheels...with the exception, they did not do all the S's but a few in between to discourage the drifters from being there doing their thing.

Where the heavy grit surface is, it is good fun to grab a handfull of throttle coming off the turn because with the VR double up traction is not a problem.

Rift, parking lots are another problem area for us on 2 wheels. You've heard that one about the left turn into a bikers path " I did not see him". it is worse in parking lots because the phone, the kids, the food, the item that was just bought, arguments about money etc while their minds are disengaged, their car is not.

Parking lots are slow speed kill zones always. I look for the best escape route because I keep on thinking, I have a target on my back and they are aiming for me, I have to escape now so no one gets me.

Yea, paranoia sets in and it can be a real friend when needed.

Slow down!
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Rich Moran View Post
It's all good to anaylize things things.

keep in mind on a downhill, you've increased th eweight load onto the front wheel by at least 35% is not more and I would think 50% would be closer to the equation. While the tire is not straight on the road, as the path taken a slwer speeds throws the tire into an off center direction or towards the side wall, the skin patch of the tire can be reduced, depending on how much of a downward slope the turn is and then the degree of the turn.

It is these factors that come into play, along with tire pressure too, that throws off our riding minds. You advised you were hours into the ride, it is easy to get "into" the ride, but not be in the ride as our sensory perception gets put into over drive.

Your example is the same example of an incident that happened back in December here. The rider and passenger were not on a mountain road however. They overshot the entrance to a hotel ont h enoprth shore, the operator grabbed too much brake on th efront while the wheel was at a turning angle.

Both the rider and passenger went down an dthe dresser slide into a golf cart on the side of the road where a maintenance guy was working.

The operator of the bike died within hours as a friend of ours was one of the first repsonders.

Our friend has had a bad time with what he saw and is now living with as his explanation of the operators physical condition was that of being similar to a gunshot wound to the head. No helmet! The passenger was the wife of the operator, she was critical but survived.

When the road has a light mist on it, as you pointed out that is the worst condition for the road to be in. If it was blacktop, depending on the age of the surface, oils tend to rise from the balck top. If the surface was in full sun and you made it minutes after the rain started, you can bet there was oil on the surface.

The other killer is the painted stripes seen on many roadways, in the rain, these surfaces are disasters for bikers waiting to happen.

Here, the road we ride on in the mountain area, the city installed a surface to prevent drifters from using the S's...which is a really big plus for us on 2 wheels...with the exception, they did not do all the S's but a few in between to discourage the drifters from being there doing there thing.

Where the heavy grit surface is, it is good fun to grab a handfull of throttle coming off the turn because with the VR double up traction is not a problem.

Rift, parking lots are another problem area for us on 2 wheels. You've heard that one about th eleft turn into a bikers path " I did not see him". it is worse in parking lots because the phone, thbe kids, the food, the item that was just bought, arguments about money etc while their minds are disengaged, their car is not.

Parking lots are slow speed zones always. I look for the best escape route becuase I keep on thinking, I have a target on my back and they are aiming for me, I have to escape now so no one gets me.

Yea, paranoia sets in and it can be a real friend when needed.

Slow down!
Great statement, may I also include Manhole/sewer covers into the mix of dangerous parts on the road. Here the "Tar Snakes" are not a ice like as other states I have been in, I believe they add something to the mixture to keep them that way, especially on our canyon roads that have a 1000' drop just inches away from the lane. I see many front brake falls in the canyons, especially downhill. we ride the canyons 1000's of miles a year, I never touch the front brakes, 1st we are traveling in 1st or 2nd gear on very curvy roads, not getting great Speed there to justify the braking power of the front, a combination of downshifting and rear braking keep the bikes upright and the few times it does get "Squirrelly" a rear tire slightly loosing grip for a millisecond is a much easier to correct then a front tire on a turn.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:41 PM   #15
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Great statement, may I also include Manhole/sewer covers into the mix of dangerous parts on the road. Here the "Tar Snakes" are not a ice like as other states I have been in, I believe they add something to the mixture to keep them that way, especially on our canyon roads that have a 1000' drop just inches away from the lane. I see many front brake falls in the canyons, especially downhill. we ride the canyons 1000's of miles a year, I never touch the front brakes, 1st we are traveling in 1st or 2nd gear on very curvy roads, not getting great Speed there to justify the braking power of the front, a combination of downshifting and rear braking keep the bikes upright and the few times it does get "Squirrelly" a rear tire slightly loosing grip for a millisecond is a much easier to correct then a front tire on a turn.
So right you are Lux, safe riding is no accident, takes attention all the time for all conditions you posted.

Still amazes me though on the mountain road we ride here to see the inline 4 crowd riding like the road is their personal speedway.

With the road more often than not being vacant, I am waiting to find a bike and the operator in the weeds down a 100 or 200 foot cliff as there are so many of them along Round Top.

Fun road to ride, but the danger remains there for those who make mistakes.
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