Motor Cycle (V Rod Specific) Corrosion Control - 1130cc.com: The #1 Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum
» Insurance
» Sponsors
Go Back   1130cc.com: The #1 Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum > V-ROD Discussions > V-ROD General
New User? Register - Forgot Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2012, 04:32 PM   #1
Rich Moran
Riding the good life
 
Rich Moran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,883
Images: 191
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Motor Cycle (V Rod Specific) Corrosion Control

As some here may be aware, I've been involved in the CPAC (corrosion prevention and control) industry for several years. over the last 14 years, heavy involvement with the US Army where CPAC services have been pulled annualy on thousands of pieces of equipment, and to date I would believe we've performed soemwhere in the neighborhood of about 170,000 + applications to gear located on Oahu.

Frankly, I know of no other services anywhere that have been performed to match what has been done in the volume & of the amount of pieces of equipment. I cannot be specific about numbers per years, nor the actual years of the treatment program as the cycle has gone some months without actually being performed due to the nature of DoD contracting. All pieces involved have had corrosion assessments performed over the years and what we've learned is when performed, there is for every dollar spent for treating the equipment, an 8 dollar cost avoidance for corrosion repair.

Whn factoring in the total count of equipment the savings of tax payer dollars by staving corrosion has I would believe equaled thus far somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 65 million at best guesstimate as those numbers rest within GAO.

With the purchase of my 02 VR new in September 2002, it made sense to start doing what we preached to everyone about corroison control.

At just under 90,000 miles and 10 years later, it made sense to find another VR where no corrosion control took place, a bike that came close to what would represent a control bike where zero rust prevention was employed. And as well, something the same year or as close as possible to 2002.

While at the dealership for new tire installation in May, there was a 03 there that when seen, it was obvious the owner did not care too much about what happened to the ride externally.

With that, we produced a power point for review of what happens if your in what the DoD says is a zone 4 level of corrosion activity of which Haweaii is. The images of what is hsown is of a 03 VR, these are not the best images as a cell phone camera was used. With the images however, you'll see it becomes apparent what happens if nothing is doen, where a bike may be located in a vocanic and sea water environment, basically DoD has determined our region as one of the worst in the world.

With this, 2 products have been in use, Salt Away when washing the bike and Rust COP sprayed annually and sometimes semi annually on parts that had an obnoxious corrosion issue.

If interested check it out here:

https://www.corrosioncops.com/upload...3_VRod__1_.pdf
__________________
Member Number 433 or there abouts...original old timer
Rich Moran is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-22-2012, 05:32 PM   #2
IGotcha
Registered Full
 
IGotcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 375
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
hey Rich... Me and my 'F' are heading to Oahu next month... When I land, we need to talk ;O}
IGotcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 09:19 PM   #3
Philthy
Registered Full
 
Philthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 9,332
Images: 1
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Very good presentation. Thanks.
__________________
The pilot is always the first person at the scene of the crash.
Philthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 09:51 PM   #4
mike_w
"Meanie"
 
mike_w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 428
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Thanks for the info. Looks like you just got another customer. I'll be giving you a call.
__________________
'02 VRSCA "VRUB"
'05 VRSCSE "XDEADV"
'07 VRSCX "VRSCX" (because NOWIFE was taken)

You know they are just like potato clips, you can't have just one.
mike_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 11:15 PM   #5
ion-man
Registered Full
 
ion-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,900
Images: 1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Great presentation. Amazing how much better your bike looks.

However, you may want to correct your spelling on page page 13 from Insure (issue an insurance policy) to Ensure (make sure something happens).

(I assure you, that's correct.)
__________________
Need help with your Kanoodle puzzle?
Fun with Friggin Magnets
ion-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 11:48 PM   #6
BT
Gone
 
BT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: OZ
Posts: 11,156
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Good stuff !!

Our bikes are a very prone to cancer Ive noticed.
BT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 06:14 AM   #7
Louis
Posting From The Pub
 
Louis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,838
Images: 3
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
How does all this compare to acf-50?
__________________
Louis

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://www.thegentlemansnapper.co.uk

Arnotts, D&D, SEPST, custom paint or all chrome according to mood, GRC seat, wave rotors, Muscle wheels, Burleigh bars, V-Gauge, assorted pretty bits.



2007 VRSC-AW (Fun).
2007 KTM 990 Adventure (Off Road and Touring).
2006 Triumph Daytona T955i (Evil).
2009 Fatboy (Heavily Tarted Up Show Pony).
2011 Bonneville (On long term loan).
1978 Triumph Bonneville Based Racer (Needs A Rebuild)
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 06:56 AM   #8
bogie
VRSCF
 
bogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 725
Images: 3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I was just about to ask the same as Louis re the ACF50 ...its one of the first things I did to my new bike when I got it last January in our lovely wet United Kingdom

its very popular over here with bikers that ride all year around, and seems to work well for an "amateur" applied solution
__________________
cheers
bogie
bogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 05:14 PM   #9
harleynurse
caferacer
 
harleynurse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 5,621
Images: 30
Feedback Score: 27 reviews
Oxidization sux. Thnxxx for the info.
__________________
cafe-racer ,LANE~SPLITTER. Century rider x2.
07 NRS~ California with over 50,000 miles.
07 NRS~ Nevada with over 50,000 miles (FOR SALE).
03VRSCA sold after 50,000 miles.
harleynurse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 07:55 PM   #10
darkdx
Registered Full
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 450
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
hmmm pretty cool stuff...Id have a heart attack if my bike looked like the untreated version!
darkdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 11:00 PM   #11
Rich Moran
Riding the good life
 
Rich Moran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,883
Images: 191
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by ion-man View Post
Great presentation. Amazing how much better your bike looks.

However, you may want to correct your spelling on page page 13 from Insure (issue an insurance policy) to Ensure (make sure something happens).

(I assure you, that's correct.)
Ensure, don't oldsters drink that stuff too?

Thanks for the tip, will pass that on for later work.

For ACF50 the quick answer is yes, the product works.

Be careful though when doing any comparison as there are some unique benefits that do not come from ACF50 where what was used in power point and what it attests to.

Since I cannot answer questions for ACF50 and what happens other than corrosion control I cannot make neither positive or negative comments.

But for brake surfaces, painting, & heat when used on the engine, what happens when the engine is started the first time after treatment, what's in the fumes and as well, can the bike stop by applying the brakes when required?

Hard to compare without testing and BTW, I ain't doing it casue 10 years is a helluva long time to do a test for something we do not market.

Last thing is that carries a ton of weight, DoD studies performed targeted select consumer off the shelf products, which CP 90 is. THey did not select ACF50 because it was not considered for what was required as ACF50 falls outside the scope of corrosion prevention for heavy equipment.

So the parameters of the test procedures determined what was to be done based on explanation by the manufacturer of what the products were used for.

If it was not meant for heavy equipment it was not selected.

Then along the way the MSDS had to pass, another criteria in the steps of approval for use upon tactical equipment.

Both US Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Division and US Army Tank and Automotive Command had conducted tests which culminated in CP-90 as the one to be used because of excellent results.

Sorry I can't give you more info about ASF50.
__________________
Member Number 433 or there abouts...original old timer
Rich Moran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 11:51 PM   #12
mike_w
"Meanie"
 
mike_w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 428
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Found it and picked up both CP50 and Salt Away. Will be using both this week.
__________________
'02 VRSCA "VRUB"
'05 VRSCSE "XDEADV"
'07 VRSCX "VRSCX" (because NOWIFE was taken)

You know they are just like potato clips, you can't have just one.
mike_w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 10:23 AM   #13
rc4man
EXCELSIOR
 
rc4man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Out there
Posts: 7,288
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Spent a few days in the Outer Banks in July and when I got home the bike was a mess. Had a real job to get it in shape again. Some corrosion inhibitor would have been the ticket.
Thanks Rich, I'll be looking for this stuff.
__________________
"V" Rod Forman, '04 Anodized "B", 50th B-day gift from wife. http://www.mem.com/Story.aspx?ID=2528706
rc4man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 02:14 PM   #14
Rich Moran
Riding the good life
 
Rich Moran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,883
Images: 191
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_w View Post
Found it and picked up both CP50 and Salt Away. Will be using both this week.
Mike, if you have any questions, let me know. BTW, I treat everythign on the bike that is made out of metal.

One other suggestion is to use one of those high speed blowers to blow all the water off the bike after washing. That helps eliminate water build up in the lower part of the rear shocks, inside the V of the engine ( Iusually straddle the bike and hold it against my right leg and lean it as far as possible, that helps the water that ponds there to fall away from the bike by the pull of gravity.

SOme folks have complained about sticky ignition switches. The manual says not to lube the lock area. I found by dressing th eend of the key with Rust COP/CP-90 and then insereting the key into the lock (do this a few times to be sure to get the tumblers lubed up) the lock will not stick.

One friend with a 03 had to replace his ignition switch because it was so bad, so if yoru lock is messed up this may or may not work. I might have caught mine early and have not had issues with it since being treated

I have to repeat about your brake system, be very careful with this after clean up and the first few miles, avoid power stops the best you possibly can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rc4man View Post
Spent a few days in the Outer Banks in July and when I got home the bike was a mess. Had a real job to get it in shape again. Some corrosion inhibitor would have been the ticket.
Thanks Rich, I'll be looking for this stuff.
Let me know if you have any problems finding and purchasing the products.

Afte rriding my bike on th eNorth Shore of oahu I used to freak out about all the salt and think the last thing I want to do when i get home is have to clean the bike. WIth the use of these products I slowly realized I could go 2, 3 and even 4 weeks with very little issues of corrosion.

The most problematic parts for corrosion with this CPAC system is the trun signal fastening assembly, the washer that acts like a spacer with the mirrors and also the handlebar controls, along
the edges had started coming apart from wind erosion and chemical contaminants.

We've discovered that galvanizing has a terrible problem due to mosit tropical winds and if that same though is held for aluminum that has been coated, the same can be true here.

If any road debris dings the coating and exposes the aluminum
the aluminum does protect itself with a molecular build up of aluminum oxides you cannot see. When one considers that aluminum that is used for aircraft is treated in a chromic acid bath, which causes the aluminum to oxide more, that micro oxidation at the surface allows the aircraft skin to battle corrosion for many years.

THe point here is on motor cycles, this is not done, so the only oxidation is what the aluminum produces on it's own and not with the use of etching compounds. Becuase of this, the corrosion attack becomes highly localized and at the point of metal exposure. Pitting develops rapidly as the aluminum under th ecoating cannot passivate properly so undercutting starts and that is those bubbles you see under the coating if you have this issue going on.

We do have primers that are water base that are used for etching compound for aluminum, stainless and galvanizing, no where near as hazardous as the chromic acid where one would have to suit up, wear respirators and gloves and when finished dispose of what was used in HAZMAT disposal which is very expensive.

If one were tp do this unprotected chances are you'd have a bizzare mind trip before you fall over foaming at the mouth...the acid is really nasty stuff.

The water based primer contains corrosion inhibitors, goes on clear and is a micro coat. The product is barely indistinguishable from a non coated surface. WIth the prime coat down, a secondary water based clear coat can be laid. While allowing each coat to dry, the third coat would be the factory original color if you not running the aluminum polished out.

WHile polished aluminum will be protected by CP-90, the white oxides of aluminum which are actually pits that have accelerated with corrosion may occur. If you are seeing darkening of polished aluminum, that is actually pits that have formed. This can be relieved with the use of 1000 grit wet paper, and then to bring
the lustre back use of DuPont orange # 2, followed by DuPont white # 2. Both of these fine products can be diluted with fresh water and work amazingly well to bring up the lustre and as well, aid in protecting the finish at hand.

I usually follow up with Bombs Away for a good long lasting finish that gets anywhere from a low of 4 months, typically in a hurry doing the work.

Or up to a year doing the work with power tools and have wheels of the bike on an elevated platform to polish the heck out of the magnesium rims.

We can do rims and other aluminum parts with the coatings as the fisnih is gloss clear, but have found out that is oil based cleaning compounds such as Gunk are used, Gunk will emulsify the coatings and that means the coating would have to be removed and then reapplied.

Regarding ACF50 as it is is designed for aluminum I cannot verify what it does for magnesium or how long it lasts.

All I know is when treating with Rust COP, then cleaned and the surface is polished as with the rims you've got a good sound system for protecting the rims for many months.

Then using Salt Away to wash, that will keep any salts from allowing water to accumulate as with salt, this accumulation of water is the first step for the start of corrosion, followed on by the salt fast tracking electrons over th esurface and then allowing deposition of oxides on the back of the salt.

I have heard many people say they won't ride roads where salt is used to melt snow. The white powder seen on the black top or concrete typically is salt if you live in areas where this practice is done.

This is where Salt Away works well for removing and cleaning the bike, car or whatever was used to drive over the roads that may be dry in some spots, wet in others, where the salt spray gets carried up onto the machine.
__________________
Member Number 433 or there abouts...original old timer
Rich Moran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 02:47 PM   #15
rc4man
EXCELSIOR
 
rc4man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Out there
Posts: 7,288
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Both places have online ordering but are there any standard chain resellers? Couldn't find a list on either website but haven't e-mailed them to ask.
__________________
"V" Rod Forman, '04 Anodized "B", 50th B-day gift from wife. http://www.mem.com/Story.aspx?ID=2528706
rc4man is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Forum Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum Kawasaki Ninja 250SL Forum