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Bulletproofing a Hi-Performance Revo

5K views 39 replies 19 participants last post by  swampboogiedoug 
#1 ·
Since my engine is going to get opened this week I would like to know your opinions regarding how to "Bulletproof" a hi-performance Revo. In my case I have a 1250 with stage 2 cams, Destroyer TB's, no air filter and for the moment a 25 hp NOS shot for the occassional drag strip visit.

The reson for the engine getting open is it had a spark plug failure and something is rattling inside, possibly a spark electrode or a foked up valve or something... Soooooo, any recommendations on mods that can be done while it's open to ensure "longevity" under some abuse will be greatly appreciated.... I'm :broke: but who knows, maybe I can rob a bank or something... :hidesbeh:


Now let me get my :coff:




:D
 
#3 ·
You should return it back to stock. Then send those destroyer TBs and NOS to me. I will dispose of them accordingly.:lick:
 
#15 ·
I guess you really are well hung!:hidesbeh:
 
#5 ·
How far open is it coming?

Some items that are worth it during a complete tear down, if you don't have them already:

  • Pinned main bearings
  • Crank brace (tear-down not needed, but easier since it's apart
  • V&H tool steel shift shaft (if it still exists)
  • Head studs (lots of opinions both ways on this
  • Oversize valves and ported heads (not really something for bulletproofing, but. . . :D )
 
#6 ·
Engine Brace is a must have with any NOS system unless you like spun bearings.
If you are pulling the heads off, I would do head work it would be a really nice kick in pants especially with those Stage II cams.
While the heads are off toss in some ARP head studs for added strength.
 
#7 ·
Listen to this man. He knows his stuff.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the replies guys, I just saw them!

So far the tore down will come to the heads, depending on the findings we'll go from there...really hope it doesnt need to go further... :hidesbeh:

-Sean, main Problem with the VH parts is they take forever to get them, but those sound good indeed!

- Scott thanks for your offer, will have it in mind.

So far a Couple Qs:

1) Does the heads need any further modification for ARP studs install? Any related threads?

2) The brace is installed via removal of the oil pan? No lower case splitting?

3) without incurring in bigger valves, is there any spring/valve upgrade available for the stock ones? Benefits of oversized ones? Best options like brands, etc?

Any other recommendations will be appreciated, thanks again! :notworth:
 
#13 ·
So far a Couple Qs:

1) Does the heads need any further modification for ARP studs install? Any related threads?
Shot me your email I can send the instructions no modifications need to install them what so ever.

2) The brace is installed via removal of the oil pan? No lower case splitting?
Again send me your email address I have detailed instructions.

3) without incurring in bigger valves, is there any spring/valve upgrade available for the stock ones? Benefits of oversized ones? Best options like brands, etc?
We sell only the best Bee-Hive Springs and retainers!

Any other recommendations will be appreciated, thanks again! :notworth:
 
#11 ·
Fabster,

You can do a lot to the engine.

The question is:
How much HP are you trying to get it, and then let that dicate what you need.

Also, take what it cost and how much you gain for that cost.

Play to pay...

Leaveit stock...LMAO
 
#14 ·
Rod: I'm tempted with bringing up the NOS to the 40 or 60 hp shot now that I'm at it or upgrading to a wet system and that will take it somewhere close to 200 hp mark while
Spraying, but the next immediate problem will be the clutch. I already have a slipper I never installed but I'll definitely need the $500 billet basket, and not sure if the slipper or even the AIM will hold satisfactorily.... Since my wallet is aching fighting to get both my bikes together ASAP (my wife's had a rear wheel/pulley failure), I think my best bet should be to stick to what I have and do whatever it needs to male the engine LAST or at least avoid failure as much as possible, probably having in mind those upgrades for the future BUT bulletproofing it NOW. :angeldev:


Santeg: billet pulley cover????

Scott: PM on it's way...


Again any details and ideas of what route should I go valve/spring-wise will be appreciated. I'm sure others will benefit too from the discussion.



;)
 
#17 ·
Nothing is a bullet proof, there is just too small bullets:D
 
#19 ·
Haven't been around in awhile. Broke a valve spring, almost ate a valve, bike has been down for over 3 weeks, severe depression, didn't feel like teasing myself by coming on the forum, should have it back in another day or two...
Sorry 'bout that Rick... Hmmmm, lots of people who said the Revo's are bulletproof? Too many of us with blown valves recently, uh??? I know they're not stock, but what's happening and what can be done to avoid it to happen again?!?! :banghead:

http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116690
 
#21 ·
Aftermarket valves and quality valve springs?

Do the bikes that are dropping valves have stage 2 cams with the stock valves/springs/retainers? I know he's persona non grata here now due to his disappearing act, but when I was discussing valvetrain options with Mike Jones in 2009, he mentioned that his milder cams were still pushing the limits of the stock valvetrain. Could the stage 2 units be just a a bit too much in hard riding?
 
#20 ·
Have Scott do the heads, and button it up with the best fasteners possible. I am still saving up for Scott to do the ones I got from you! Joe
 
#22 ·
Aftermarket +1MM valves, springs & retainers.

I believe all the parts were Ferrea - I know the retainers were. Need to take a run by them (since they're less than a mile from my house) and verify the springs were theirs.

Despite the "dislike" that Scott has for V&H, they've done more Revo head work than all others combined. I doubt they would skimp and put El Cheepo springs in.

At any rate - I had a clicking noise that was coming and going (of course, going whenever I went down to the stealership). Then the clicking went away, and I was getting a "popping" at WOT around 7,300-7,800. Figured I'd just wait until something broke (and it it damaged the piston, give me the opportunity to do something really stupid, like a BB).

It was probably the spring "binding" intermittently, and over time/stress - it just cut loose on me. Hung the valve open, no marks on the piston (at little scoring on the carbon, no marks on the metal).

TOTALLY MY BAD - should have pulled to cam covers off immediately. Actually, I was planning to drop it at the stealership for a lash - which would have caught the problem - but still would have been the end result $$-wise - pulling the heads and replacing the springs.

At any rate. On one hand, I wish I hadn't ever touched the heads, the whole job would be under warranty. OTOH - I love the way the bike runs. Having all the rubber motor mount parts replaced while it's out. Radiator replaced (warranty/leak). V&H essentially did a valve job with 1 replaced valve/retainer and all new springs, plus shipped me a set of new springs ($600), harley is getting me for 7 hours on the motor/head R&R.

So all told, it was a $1,600 OOOPS. Lucky I can afford it. The most frustrating part that $$ can't buy - is not having the bike for the last 3 weeks. It comes home today or tomorrow. I would have pulled the motor myself - but let HD do it out of laziness and the hope that they would find something to justify the 7 hours as a warranty claim. If my buddy was still service manager - it would have gone down that way.

Very little regrets I have on any of my mods ($$ aside - see sig - even then), I have a gorgeous bike, that runs fast, cruises reliably and shocks the hell at of the japper crowd I ride with.

Rick
 
#23 ·
In my case it's Stage 2 cams with stock valvetrain. It's still to be determined which kind of damage was done when it gets opened soon. Symptoms started before I found an unplugged injector, followed by out of nowhere stuttering the next ride that felt the same as when the injector was unplugged but this time it wasn't. While clearing codes and trying to diagnose at home the clacking sound started right upon igniting the motor. At the shop first thing that was found was a rear cylinder spark plug failure (broken ceramic isolator) and the internal electrode nowhere to be found, so it was either chewed inside or still playing with the pistons and internals. Will see soon if the clacking was the loose electrode and/or valve failure or something else...

Apparently both stock AND aftermarket valvetrains are failing on us under different circumstances, Rick's was normally aspirated street use, Karza's was... nevermind, Karza is in another league (LOL)... in Jan-Dirk's and Lane's case it was under boost at high RPM, and so on...

Jan-Dirk's thread:
http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159443

In my case I have nitrous installed but I honestly haven't used it as much as I woul've liked, only at the drag strip for maybe 7 passes in total and I hadn't use it for around 4 months before the failure happened so my guess is it didn't had to do with it, BUT I must admit I amuse myself for lot of passes shifting at 9K and 9.5K at the track (on regular fuel, no NOS) which may have been a factor in stressing the internals.

Rick, do you spend much time close to the limiter or where you hitting your bike hard at high RPMs when the failure showed up? I mean, you can hit it hard at the track but it's for some seconds, BUT at the street you risk to hit it for prolonged times before the limiter kicks :hitfan: Maybe some racing guys and motor builders can also give their insight here...

Thanks to all for your suggestions and experiences, it will only help us all at the end!
 
#24 ·
very interested in that since I ride mi bike hard on the back roads and will be installing cams soon.
 
#25 ·
heh, you wanna play....you gotta pay.
their's a reason that these are considered race cams.

would i go back, NEVER

The Stage II Cams with the right head work.. all I can say is, it will leave you breathless.
Open up at 4 or 5000 rpm's and the revolution kicks into badass mode, tuned right always, the sound of the motor thru the bub 7's at 7-9000rpms has that tune to it, like something that Mozart wrote.
This is not the fastest I rode, but the ever most pleasing and most enjoyable.
2yrs with the cams and i will open her up after August(if she takes me that far) for the valve lash.
or else I'll end up like Mr.Sick....since she's broke, might as well go Big Bore
 
#26 ·
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but VH uses the incorrect springs I have been trying to tell people this for well over a year now. Rick I like 95% of the guys over at VH but a couple in particular seem to think they know more about VRod valve train then myself and a couple truly dedicated individuals on this forum. Our bee-hive springs are the best springs out there, all that double spring bull shit is for the chickens. Lane can attest to our products among several hundred other people. Rick I am not going to start a pissing match but my head guy does laps around VH all day long.

Fab you will have zero issues with our springs and retainers! :)
 
#29 ·
Heads need to be done the right way with these engines.

I have seen many different heads with valve jobs in them that would make you sick.

This is what I have to say about this.

When doing the vavle and springs make sure that they do not grind down the top of the valves to get proper lash.

If they are doing this then send them back or ask for a new set of valves.

The Lash need to be done with the shims notthe valves.

out...
 
#31 ·
Thanks for your insight gentlemen! Waiting for the head gaskets to finally open the engine and really know what's the status of the internals.

Pat, I checked CHE's website and it's pretty impressive stuff they have there! :thumb:

10-4 for the moment! :cheers:
 
#32 ·
Fabster

??? With the NOS that your running I Hope you've been running a Higher Octane fuel to prevent your Pre-detination. If not that could be the cause of plug electrode failure..:2cents:
 
#33 ·
I forgot to update this thread. Finally the following where installed looking to reinforce the engine while the top was opened:

1) ARP 10mm head studs
2) Fitz Engine/crank brace and studs
3) Beehive springs/retainers
4) Throttle body blade shafts upgraded and reinforced by Fitzgerald Motorsports
5) Slipper clutch upgraded with red heavy springs

I guess what was only left was pinning bearings and billet pan and clutch basquet, but that's another $1K in parts only that I couldn't afford :broke:

While at it I also replaced the 2005 factory HD battery with a Ballistic Batteries Lithium 12 cell, only around 3lbs and 10 less than the stocker.

Thanks to Scott at Fitzgerald Motorsports who provided the engine parts overseas including the TB shafts upgrade service with a turnaround of about 3 days! :notworth: I know you're a busy man running your bussiness and taking care of your family, so thanks for your support.

Also a big thanks to everyone who gave their feedback an experience in this thread including some members who helped through PM who are not in this thread like Flying Taco, PatM, Vreelands, Grandpawgriz :thumb:


Let's see how long can it handle the little upgrade on the last pic.......... :diablo:

Sent from my Motorcycle iPad app
 
#36 ·
I guess what was only left was pinning bearings and billet pan and clutch basquet, but that's another $1K in parts only that I couldn't afford :broke:
:angeldev:planning on doing a group buy next month for our 6061 Billet Aluminum Oil Pan and you can bolt that on yourself during a routine oil change. :D
 
#34 ·
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