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Old 07-13-2016, 01:46 PM   #1
kntdrv
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When do I need to buy a Tuner?

Hello,
As some of you may know I have a 2013 VROD NRS with a CFR slip-on. Had the bike since June 1st and would like it to run smoother and eliminate some of the flat zones.

The question I have is:
If I'm doing no other changes and getting the bike tuned for the pipe Do I need to buy a Tuner or can a competent Technician flash the stock ECM? I'm wondering if a Dyno is the way to go....

Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:04 PM   #2
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Ideally tuners would work best for full system, with slip on, a good and competent technicians can wave their magic wand to fine tune the engine. But a pal of mine bought a tuner at 4 wheel online when he replaced his exhaust with a cobra slip on and aftermarket filter so I guess really depends what mods and future mods you are planning.
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Old 07-14-2016, 04:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdv-rider View Post
Ideally tuners would work best for full system, with slip on, a good and competent technicians can wave their magic wand to fine tune the engine. But a pal of mine bought a tuner at 4 wheel online when he replaced his exhaust with a cobra slip on and aftermarket filter so I guess really depends what mods and future mods you are planning.


Tuners are appropriate regardless of system type and components, "full" or not, (whatever that means). I consider the CFR a full system. And stock a full system, and all of them in fact. Regardless of how you see any modification, a tuner is absolutely necessary with EFI. The stock fuel management is fine but any tampering with intake or exhaust should be immediately followed with a re-tune, remap or whatever you choose. No exceptions. A too-lean of a tune is not a great gamble to take, nor at all necessary.
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:02 PM   #4
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I'm having a difficult time finding a qualified Technician who can tune a VROD. I may have to resort to a auto tuner and do it myself!
I'm liking the Thundermax with wide band O2 sensors. Can't be too difficult finding a map suitable for my application.
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Old 07-16-2016, 07:11 AM   #5
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Update….I've been in comms with Fuel Moto re a Tuner and I'm happy with their quick response to my questions. They have a few Tuners but want to know what my needs are.

What Tuner/Map do you guys have for your 2013 VROD NRS with an aftermarket pipe (mines a CFR) and stock Air filter? I'm just looking for a smoother response in the mid range rpm's suitable for 70% city 30% hi-way.

I'm liking the Thundermax with wide band O2 sensors but it may be over-kill for my needs and it's around $700USD plus shipping etc to Canada.

Not looking to do any "engine" mods in the near future.
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Old 07-17-2016, 08:37 AM   #6
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I assume you know your way around the bike and the tuning process if you're considering the Thundermax. I was also considering it but there are some mixed reviews on it. I almost pulled the trigger on the Daytona Twin Tec but it really is overkill for what I have. I have a micro tuner from Fuel Moto now and it works great for what it is, but I want an auto tuner. I was priced $800 for dyno time plus the price of a tuner from my local harley dealer. I have trust issues,,, so, I have decided to go with the Power Vision and auto tune. Not cheap but less expensive then the dyno and I can do it myself. Everyone seems to like the powervision, you could probably get away with the built in auto tune with stock 02 sensors, but very limited range in tuning.... just some food for thought...
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:23 PM   #7
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Moler,
Thanks for your input. I'm not familiar with the Powervision offering. There's so much out there these days. I've read mixed reviews about every auto tuner out there. What I like about the Thundermax is that it's been around for a while and there's seen success stories.

My local bike shop deals directly with Zipper's and has installed a few on VROD's with great success. One negative on my bike is that the O2 bungs are 12mm where the wide bands O2 sensors that come with the Thundermax are 18mm. Not a biggie…just more to consider.

I'll probably end up with the TMax vs the Dyno...
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:39 PM   #8
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If you can get the zippers unit at your local shop then the CS should be good. You'll be able to talk to someone face to face. I have no experience with the ThunderMax, just what I've read..... there are mixed reviews, you're going to get that with anything though. I also have a Cobra FI2000 that I purchased from a member here, haven't used it. Probably end up selling it again, mixed reviews on it as well. I just want auto tune with ability to adjust timing as well. That's why I'm going PV. All the best....
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:52 PM   #9
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Update…
Ordered the Tundermax with wideband O2 sensors. Had to order a pair of 18mm bungs to replace the stock 12mm on my 2013.
Local bike shop said bungs are a simple replacement. I feel good about them cause they've done a few Tundermax installs on VRODs with good results.
I'll update after my first ride…..
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:46 PM   #10
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Without starting a new 'do i need a tuner' thread, my son-in-law believes that that my 2005A had the ECM flashed at some point. I bought it used with a SE Air Filter and a CFR 2-1 exhaust.

It runs fantastic, but there is always the thought of 'can it run smoother and more efficient'?

So, he suggested that if I go the route of 'wanting' a tuner, to look at a TTS. Anyone else using one on an '05ish model? What other ones are you all using for the older VRods? Do I really need one since it is running well and I dont anticipate making any mechanical changes to it.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:12 PM   #11
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laformula1,

My bike also has a CFR short pipe. It's my understanding these pipes are one of the more difficult ones to tune. I ended up getting a SESTP and Dyno done to my bike and it now has very good/smooth response from idle to redline. The best runs were done topless with a K&N Hi-Flow air filter. I don't plan on doing any more engine mods.

If you're bike's running good now and you're happy with it…why mess around?

I'm sure other's will give you their opinion(s) shortly….
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Old 10-04-2016, 06:45 AM   #12
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If familiar with modern fuel injection, keep in mind that these bike have an antiquated system that is marginal at best. There are significant improvements that can be made but you touched on the significant issue of unskilled tuners. Unfortunately, in motorcycle land we have mostly ignorant tuners using cheap inertia dynos tuning solely by throwing full throttle runs and just giving the rest of the map a WAG. If you want a real tune take it to a car shop familiar with EFI tuning and skip the bike shop.
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:23 PM   #13
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Your butt is not a dyno, when you feel a problem in your butt its real bad.
Days of tunning by ear are long gone.
Get people who know

Think about this at 6000 RPM you have 50 spark events per second or power strokes.
The most power is made when it all goes right everytime.
I read that your motor has to have about 3 seconds of misfire to feel or hear it.
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Old 10-06-2016, 04:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kntdrv View Post
laformula1,

My bike also has a CFR short pipe. It's my understanding these pipes are one of the more difficult ones to tune. I ended up getting a SESTP and Dyno done to my bike and it now has very good/smooth response from idle to redline. The best runs were done topless with a K&N Hi-Flow air filter. I don't plan on doing any more engine mods.

If you're bike's running good now and you're happy with it…why mess around?

I'm sure other's will give you their opinion(s) shortly….
The CFR was purpose built for the Revo, designed, tested and sold by a V-Rod owner, for the V- Rod only. IMO, it does the best job for the street. I don't know about it being difficult to tune but will only say a "competent" mechanic is key to any tune.
Due to different changes at different times, we've had the bike on the dyno 3 times, the CFR always tunes easy enough IMO. I think a lot of people get confused with the "butterfly" chatter. The butterflys will dance at idle and a lot of people attempt to tune it out. Won't happen.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinOaks View Post
. I think a lot of people get confused with the "butterfly" chatter. The butterflys will dance at idle and a lot of people attempt to tune it out. Won't happen.
Butterfly Chatter eh? I like that.

Old school carb: Jet for full throttle. Make it "feel" good everywhere else and tune out popping.
New school: Tune every throttle position and every rpm cell. It's a computer and the days of tuning by feel are forever gone.

While one pipe will make power differently than another, the idea that one is more difficult to tune is absurd.
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