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Power Vision Auto Tune is now a reality

17K views 133 replies 25 participants last post by  rdscustoms 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Brilliant!

Unfortunately the V-Rod already has a SEPST and the Softail doesn't really need such a sophisticated answer, but for anyone wanting to get their bike running right this really looks the canine's gonads...
 
#3 ·
Very nice, finally no computer needed at all. Before you still needed to put your data log in to the computer software to calculate proper changes and than back to the PV than flashed to the ECM. Now all that is done by the PV. I think this is the best and easiest tuning solution available now, pricey though.
 
#5 ·
I don't mind using a computer - what I like is the combo of autotuning and an ECM flash. Before your choices were aftermarket ECM (too big a change for my taste), autotuned piggy back controller (another thing to go wrong) or manual tuning (hard work).

This is the best of all worlds.
 
#6 ·
I have a Power Vision for my Road Glide... now I have to find a windows machine so I can get the update and try out the auto tune.
 
#8 ·
If order, what exactly do I need? I get stuff from the US and have it shipped to Portugal via the UK, and that takes forever, so finding you don't have a bit you need is a bit of a bugger...

I have a 2009 Softail. I also have two wideband sensors attached to Deutch connectors from my Twinscan kit. I do want to do wideband...
 
#7 ·
Kurt,
Can you please start a thread if you do this.
Sounds interesting....

Thanks for the link.
 
#9 ·
You just need a Power Vision. Nothing else is needed. Then you'll have download the update if it isn't in the new one.

It works with the standard and wideband sensors. I'll probably get some wideband at some point for the Glide.
 
#13 ·
Unfortunately I do not see the advantage of doing the "Basic" version with the OEM narrowbands other than viewing a wider starting range. The Basic will still maintain the same 14.7 AFR that is tuned for by the factory. Not exactly what you want for power tuning or cool running engines. It does look good on paper though. ;)
 
#12 ·
Trying to find someone locally who has a spare laptop I can borrow. I only have a Mac at home. I can't wait to try it out.
 
#14 ·
Ok, please forgive the dumb questions in advance:

First, are all wideband O2 sensors one size fits all? i.e. will the "wideband" sensors fit on a 2012 Muscle, or do you need to do something special for the red-headed step child?

Next, do you have to leave the PowerVision on the bike? I'm a little confused how this works-- do you hook it up, go for a ride, and then take it off or does it stay there forever-- mind that I'd simply like to "tune and forget"-- I really don't have any interest in continually playing with the tune on the bike. I'd like to tune for max performance in the real world (i.e. not max numbers on a dyno).

Is there a procedure for this to go through all of the performance envelopes, i.e. open/closed loop, wot, etc? after you install the AutoTune? How would you know when you have a "good" data sample? A ten minute ride? a quick blast to max rpm in every gear? Two weeks of data sampling?

Finally, how would this compare to the more traditional approach of a tuner using a TTS Mastertune? Especialy if I have no intention of changing the bike out (except for cams when it's off of warrenty).

Oh-- would it work with cams? I know the PC-V doesn't play nice.

Fwiw, I'm only looking at a Tab pipe with 1 3/4" baffle and the amsoil filter with topless as my setup.

Thanks all-- and I again apologize if these are obvious questions, but I think that the autotune function may make this into something different than it was?

R.
 
#15 ·
Part II: After trying to make sense of this on the DynoJet website, I understand that I'd have to get 18mm O2 ports welded in place of the stock 12mm ports on my exhaust, and that I'd have to disable Closed Loop functioning.

How do you do that? (Or does the PV magically do it for you), and what is the downside of doing so?

Thanks, and again apologies-- I's trying to make myself smart on this since this may be the direction I want to go instead of the TTS.

R.
 
#16 ·
I can't answer all of your questions. Yes, to do datalogging, you have to have the PV on the bike. It's small enough to fit in your pocket and comes with a long cable. From what I read, at least 5 minutes of riding. I plan on taking my though some urban stop and go, some wide open freeway on-ramps, and some general cruising for about a half hour to see what it learns. I'll then let it apply the changes to my map and flash the ECM.

I've had a slight pinging issue on my 103 at 80-100% throttle particularly in the upper gears. I stopped at Fuel Moto last week while I was on a trip, and Jamie tweaked the map I was running. There was a slight decrease in the pinging, but my gas mileage went from 42 mpg to 48 mpg on the trip home.

I have no other knowledge on this thing, so I can't help you with your questions.
 
#17 ·
Thinking on this, one other question--

How does the PV know what AFR to tune? In simple terms, how does it know if you want it to bias towards power or fuel efficiency (i.e. running lean to make the EPA happy)?

Thanks--

R.

PS: I'm trying to get through some of the information on DynoJet's website-- dry stuff. It looks like you definitely have to get new O2 bungs welded-- the AutoTune wideband O2 sensors are 18mm vice the later model bikes 12mm. Great. If I go this way, at least I figured that out before I sent the pipes off to get ceramic coated!
 
#19 ·
The ECM contains a target AFR table. I assume one edits that and the PV tunes to it (any other way would be stupid, surely?).

When did the sensors go from 18mm to 12mm? My 2007 V-Rod with D&D Fatcat for a 2008 bike is 18mm.... What's my 2009 Softail?
 
#18 ·
The other thing about pv is that it doesn't need to stay on the bike permanently. Once you go through the auto tuning and get to a point you like you can quit flash the ECM and take the pv off. I like it on there it provides additional gauges and info while the bike is running. But some don't like anything on their bars at all and it is nice to be able to leave your tuner at home and only use it when you change aspects of the bike. Wide band sensors are recommended but a 14.3 afr while not giving you the biggest power possible isn't going to endanger the bike so if you just want to make sure you don't burn up a piston every time you change something and avoid the dyno time charges it works well.
 
#20 ·
flybigjet - there is a AFR table in the software that you can adjust to set your target AFR if desired. When you enable Auto tune pro it automatically sets up the current tune to target 13.0. Once you are happy with your tune and Auto tune is no longer making large changes to the VE table you can then go back in and set the AFR table to whatever value you want and it will adjust the VE table accordingly to achieve this.

Also when you enable Autotune a table will come up on the PV screen that shows you RPM vs TP and will show you the hit counts. Basically you want to try to "fill" in each cell with around 20 hits or so and then you know that this cell has been calculated. If you can ride in a manner that fills all cells in a single ride you can be assured of a complete tune.
 
#23 ·
Rift - Sounds like you got it down. Change those values to work with a Vrod and you should be good to go.

LL Kool - If you are using Auto Tune Basic then your stock sensors are only accurate around stoich (14.64 for gas). So what you are doing is "fixing" the VE tables so that they coincide to stoich. So yes, while you are Auto tuning you will be running your bike leaner than optimal. Once you have adjusted your VE table to match stoich you can then go in, adjust your AFR table back to the richer settings if desired and turn Auto tune off and you should be good to go. Ideally you would run Auto tune Pro and therefore you could run around at a richer setting while learning. Also, if your current tune is closer to the 13:1 range like you stated then that Auto tune will learn that much faster. Hope this makes sense.
 
#29 ·
LL Kool - If you are using Auto Tune Basic then your stock sensors are only accurate around stoich (14.64 for gas). So what you are doing is "fixing" the VE tables so that they coincide to stoich. So yes, while you are Auto tuning you will be running your bike leaner than optimal. Once you have adjusted your VE table to match stoich you can then go in, adjust your AFR table back to the richer settings if desired and turn Auto tune off and you should be good to go. Ideally you would run Auto tune Pro and therefore you could run around at a richer setting while learning. Also, if your current tune is closer to the 13:1 range like you stated then that Auto tune will learn that much faster. Hope this makes sense.
Now I'm confused. So I would Auto Tune, then set the figures back to where I started? So what would I be gaining? I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer...

So what it sounds like is I should get some Wideband 02 sensors, and then Auto tune off my current map to gain a real benefit. Do I have to get the wideband controller with the PV, or can I just install the new sensors and run it?
 
#26 ·
Apologies for maybe asking the obvious, but.....

If you have a newer HD (i.e. a 2012 F), and it has the new (smaller) sensors-- I get that you have the 18mm O2 sensors for "Pro mode" to work. So here's the question-- do you remove the stock 12mm sensors, weld in a larger bung, install the new 18mm ones, plug them into the oem harness and you're good to go? Or, do you remove the stock sensors, cap the hole, weld in new bungs, and leave the stock wiring twisting in the breeze? Or finally, do you leave the stock sensors completely alone, weld in a new set of larger bungs and run with four O2 sensors.

You can see the confusion.

Next question-- Does the AutoTune kit from DJ come with "plug and play" sensors, or am I going to have to be creative?

This would be MUCH easier if HD used wideband sensors!

R.
 
#27 ·
Also, I have Bosch wide band sensors from a Twinscan, with Deutch connectors on the end...

I wish someone would tell me what I actually need, because so long as it is guesswork i am deffo not buying. And if it it is PV and a whole Autotune kit, I'm still probably not buying,
 
#28 ·
Since I'm going to do the whole "topless, filter, pipes" thing this winter, I'm definitely interested. BUT, like Louis said, I need to know exactly what's required to make this work.

A few other questions:

Will this work for SE Stage II cams? (after-warranty project)

And the biggie-- in looking for real-world performance and drivability (i.e. not a one-time pull on a dyno for max numbers), which is going to work better with topless, filter, pipes (and eventually) cams?

1. PV w/ AutoTune and wideband O2 sensors.

2. TTS MasterTune and a dyno tune by someone who actually knows how to use the software.

Like I said previously, once I get it set, I'm done. I've no interest in change-tune-tweak-chang-tune-tweak,etc. Been there, done that.

Thanks! i'm really interested to hear these answers.

R.
 
#39 ·
Well I just ordered a Power Vision for my '13 but can any 2012-13 owners confirm if there are any other tunes preloaded on it than the two tunes on the site? I know these things are still new but I figured there would at least be a handfull more generic tunes available.
 
#42 ·
Louis, you can... it has all the cells for rpm and throttle position that you are used to. You can set individual values. You connect to your computer, use the software and reflash.
 
#43 ·
And it then tunes to that AFR map? Great, just what I want. However, the V-Rod has a SEPST and I've just bought a very cheap PCV for the Softail so I shall put the dosh towards some proper suspension for the Fatboy...
 
#44 ·
The weather went crappy here this weekend, but next week I'm going to let it Auto tune and see what happens.
 
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