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Old 03-27-2017, 10:27 AM   #1
bro.betterley
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Velocity Stacks and Stage 2

Ok before you tell me to search I have already read for hours on the topic.

Im opening this topic again for 2 reasons, first I cant seem to find a clear answer, second most posts on the topic are several years old.

I recently purchased a 2013 muscle with 3800 miles, previous owner did the stage 2 roughly 200 miles ago confirmed by lancaster harley davidson before I purchased it.

Set up is as follows: Stage 2 cams, screaming eagle tuner,53mm throttle body, short stacks, modified air box using templates TOP ON, K&N air filter, vance and hines 2into1 competition exhaust

Im not concerned about max HP although the extra is kindly received but im willing to leave some HP on the table if I can gain low and mid power, i would have bought the bike with out the cams.

First Question is Short Stacks or Factory Uneven Stacks


Second Question
is if I switch out the stacks should i take it to veerlands and have it tuned or buy a daytona tech autotune

I called veerlands to talk about my questions and the person i talked to really wouldnt answer me just said bring it and we will put it on the dyno, wouldnt even say if i should bring the old stacks
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:56 AM   #2
stever975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bro.betterley View Post
...
...
I recently purchased a 2013 muscle with 3800 miles, previous owner did the stage 2 roughly 200 miles ago confirmed by lancaster harley davidson before I purchased it.

Set up is as follows: Stage 2 cams, screaming eagle tuner,53mm throttle body, short stacks, modified air box using templates TOP ON, K&N air filter, vance and hines 2into1 competition exhaust...
...
First Question is Short Stacks or Factory Uneven Stacks
Short stacks are best for peak HP & torque at high RPM. The OEM short/tall setup gives a flatter torque curve over a wider RPM range than both tall or both short stacks with some drop in peak HP & torque.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bro.betterley View Post

Second Question
is if I switch out the stacks should i take it to veerlands and have it tuned or buy a daytona tech autotune....
As has been mentioned in several other posts on the forum, changing the velocity stack length changes the VE (volumetric efficiency or air pumping characteristics) of the engine so the amount of fuel required at various loads and RPMs will change so yes, you need to have the ECM recalibrated.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:26 PM   #3
bro.betterley
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Has anybody tried using two of the factory rear stacks
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:12 PM   #4
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i have been experimenting with different length a dia stacks on my vrods.firstly the daytona twin tec is the way to go.with the se cams and long stacks it flattens out earlier than the short stacks but the short stacks loose low end torque.what ive ended up with is the short stacks and made alloy risers which slip over the short stacks .ive increased the inside dia of the risers to 59 mm and made them around
30 mm longer inside over the short stacks.this retains the velocity of the air flow but adds a plenum effect to the stack .this as such gives me the top end and retains the torque of the long stacks.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:50 PM   #5
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Has anybody tried using two of the factory rear stacks
I believe the mounting holes are in different places so you can't mix them up. I might be wrong but I seem to recall being confused the first time I tried to reinstall the stacks as to why they wouldn't fit.
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:32 AM   #6
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It would be easier to advise if you stated exactly what the goal is. Toying with the stacks is high level advanced seeking the last little bit, and your dyno question raises the question if you are ready for that. I don't know them, but agree with Veerlands assessment.

What you are describing for mods already done appear to fly in the face of the stated desire for low end power. Confusing.
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:50 AM   #7
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It would be easier to advise if you stated exactly what the goal is. Toying with the stacks is high level advanced seeking the last little bit, and your dyno question raises the question if you are ready for that. I don't know them, but agree with Veerlands assessment.

What you are describing for mods already done appear to fly in the face of the stated desire for low end power. Confusing.
My goal is to get the bike running right, occasionally requires throttle on start up, surging when cruising at 4500rpms in 2nd gear.

As far as the question on stacks, I didn't realize my question wasn't clear. Which configuration do those with first hand experience prefer. Even I can share what i have read, but have no first hand experience.

Im not looking for every ounce of top end hp, from all my reading thats what the short stacks do raise the power band and maximize hp at the expense of some torque.

If I had a choice while I'm getting it tuned, i would prefer a gain in torque over top end hp.

And the mods were already done when i bought the bike, the flaws in the tune were not notice because it was bellow freezing in PA when i bought it, so i only road up the street and back.
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Old 03-29-2017, 04:04 PM   #8
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Makes a strong case for the auto tuner. Then you can try other set ups and see what
works best.
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bro.betterley View Post
My goal is to get the bike running right, occasionally requires throttle on start up, surging when cruising at 4500rpms in 2nd gear.

As far as the question on stacks, I didn't realize my question wasn't clear. Which configuration do those with first hand experience prefer. Even I can share what i have read, but have no first hand experience.

Im not looking for every ounce of top end hp, from all my reading thats what the short stacks do raise the power band and maximize hp at the expense of some torque.

If I had a choice while I'm getting it tuned, i would prefer a gain in torque over top end hp.

And the mods were already done when i bought the bike, the flaws in the tune were not notice because it was bellow freezing in PA when i bought it, so i only road up the street and back.

That considered: You have about the worst 2-1 pipe on the market for low/midrange power. It has far too large of primary pipes for street use and is really only suited to really big kitted bikes or drag racing, or maybe both. You best gain at this point would be to use a suitable pipe like the Akropovich.

Regarding velocity stacks, the OE configuration is an exceptional one for street use. You may move the power around a bit with changing stacks, but the changes won't be significant and almost any change you make within the confines of your air filter lid will most likely reduce low/midrange power.

Regarding tune. IMO, and based on years reading this forum, you can be about 95% certain that your tune is crap. Sorry guys, but someone actually doing a proper tune with proper equipment is very rare around here. Dynojet has a pretty good system these days that is incorporated with their later model load cell dynos. It will give a pretty good tune over the full range of your map. Contact Dynojet and they can fill you in. If I had to tune again without my outstanding dyno guy available, that is what I would use.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:07 PM   #10
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I talked to dyno jet earlier today and im not sure what your recommending from them
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:44 PM   #11
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see these guys. They use a load cell dyno and work closely with Dynojet. Whatever you do, do not use a shop with an inertia dyno.
https://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-28221-dyno-tuning.html
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:59 PM   #12
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I have good results with my motohooligan stack,they are equal length and a little longer than the short stacks but wider,didn't lose too much low end..pulls very hard over the entire power curve
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:50 AM   #13
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I have good results with my motohooligan stack,they are equal length and a little longer than the short stacks but wider,didn't lose too much low end..pulls very hard over the entire power curve
That's a typical result. Some gains up top to be had, but at the expense of losing some low and mid. Altering stack height is a great way to move power where you want it, but I've not seen a setup that improves average hp or tq over stock.
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:49 AM   #14
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The stock 1250 intake cam timing was altered from the 1130's for more low and mid torque to pull the heavy fat 240 tire better. Since those were removed and S/E stage 2 cams installed the engine is now leaning more towards high mid to top power leaving that low end a little flat. Without spending a lot of money on another pipe and from what I've learned here I would ditch the short stacks, install the stock unequal length and if it doesn't have it already install the V&H quiet baffle for more back pressure on that open race pipe, check adjustment of your throttle plates, idle output to the EFI and have it tuned with the SERT - either install a tune for your popular setup or do the Dyno like MIAtlanta said, It will pull real strong lower and sooner where you want it.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by streetrodracer View Post
The stock 1250 intake cam timing was altered from the 1130's for more low and mid torque to pull the heavy fat 240 tire better. Since those were removed and S/E stage 2 cams installed the engine is now leaning more towards high mid to top power leaving that low end a little flat. Without spending a lot of money on another pipe and from what I've learned here I would ditch the short stacks, install the stock unequal length and if it doesn't have it already install the V&H quiet baffle for more back pressure on that open race pipe, check adjustment of your throttle
plates, idle output to the EFI and have it tuned with the SERT - either install a tune for your popular setup or do the Dyno like MIAtlanta said, It will pull real strong lower and sooner where you want it.
I installed the Vance & Hines baffle, would packing the muffler also help with low end by causing back pressure?
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