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Old 01-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #16
Ernie82
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.......
Some people believe that the guys building the engine on the H-D line were actually Porsche employees. When I toured the factory in 2007 they wore H-D apparel and I did not see any Porsche logos.

Nice car BTW.
So in HD's financial statements they disclose the existence of a Joint venture in the footnotes to the financials. The Joint venture is with Porsche. What does it really mean? It exists in the KC factory, staffed by HD union employees, maybe Porsche contributes to the engineering tweaks made over the years, maybe not. Instead of HD just paying Porsche for the consulting work they did when making the VR1000 durable, Porsche took an ownership interest in the project.

The facts above are just that, facts disclosed by HD, in filings made with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) a US government regulatory agency. It is not marketing hype.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:43 PM   #17
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Me too - plus a 911 C4S

I like the car better.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ernie82 View Post
So in HD's financial statements they disclose the existence of a Joint venture in the footnotes to the financials. The Joint venture is with Porsche. What does it really mean? It exists in the KC factory, staffed by HD union employees, maybe Porsche contributes to the engineering tweaks made over the years, maybe not. Instead of HD just paying Porsche for the consulting work they did when making the VR1000 durable, Porsche took an ownership interest in the project...
You read way too much into a footnote. The Joint Venture was setup in 1997 and ended in 2003. It was to source and assemble powertrain components i.e. design and build the powerplant manufacturing process. Once the growing pains of the new assembly was complete the venture was dissolved. The footnote in 2004 annual report http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...DLifrX5mOKQCvg clearly states that this joint venture ended by January 2004.

Quote:
18 June 1997
Harley-Davidson and Porsche Set Up Joint Venture


MILWAUKEE, June 18 -- Harley-Davidson Motor Company
of Milwaukee, Wis. and Dr. Ing. h.c.F. Porsche AG of Stuttgart,
Germany have formed a joint venture to source and assemble powertrain components for use in potential new motorcycle products.

For the world's largest manufacturer of sports cars and the premier motorcycle manufacturer, this joint undertaking represents the continuation of a relationship that extends back to the 1970s.
The joint venture plans to operate out of one of Harley-Davidson's U.S. manufacturing facilities. Total investment by each party over the life of the joint venture is forecast to be less than $10 million. The joint venture is scheduled to end approximately five years after the start of production, with the first production of the potential new products being years in the future.

Harley-Davidson Motor Company President and COO Jeff Bleustein said, "While we are excited to be working with Porsche on this new venture, it is important to keep it in perspective. Harley-Davidson will invest less than $10 million in the venture over several years, but will invest approximately $200 million in capital expenditures in 1997 alone."

"Porsche's considerable skills in engine emission compliance make them a great partner for Harley-Davidson," Bleustein added.

In its most recent complete fiscal year (1996), the Harley-Davidson Motor Company sold 118,771 motorcycles and achieved net sales of $1,531 billion. The profit for the year after tax was $166 million.

Harley-Davidson Motor Company, the only major American-based motorcycle manufacturer, produces heavyweight motorcycles and a complete line of motorcycle parts and accessories.

SOURCE Harley-Davidson, Inc.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:06 AM   #19
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You read way too much into a footnote. The Joint Venture was setup in 1997 and ended in 2003. It was to source and assemble powertrain components i.e. design and build the powerplant manufacturing process. Once the growing pains of the new assembly was complete the venture was dissolved. The footnote in 2004 annual report http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...DLifrX5mOKQCvg clearly states that this joint venture ended by January 2004.
I never said it was ongoing only that it happened, which some people on this forum tend to deny. I don't think I read too far into into the text, its seems pretty blunt and direct. It covers up to the 2004 model year of the V-Rod.

Here is an excerpt from and link to the the document I referenced:


HARLEY-DAVIDSON, INC.

NOTES TO CONSOLIDATED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS



1. Summary of significant accounting policies



Principles of consolidation and basis of presentation - The consolidated financial statements include the accounts of Harley-Davidson, Inc. and all of its subsidiaries (the Company), including the accounts of the groups of companies doing business as Harley-Davidson Motor Company (HDMC), Buell Motorcycle Company (BMC) and Harley-Davidson Financial Services (HDFS).



All of the Company’s subsidiaries are wholly owned and are included in the consolidated financial statements. Prior to January 2004, the Company participated in a joint venture with Porsche AG, of which the Company owned a 51% share. The accounts of the joint venture with Porsche AG were included in the Company’s 2003 and 2002 consolidated financial statements, adjusted to reflect Porsche AG’s interest in operating results and net assets. In January 2004, the Company increased its ownership share to 100% by purchasing Porsche AG’s 49% interest in the joint venture. See Note 3 for additional detail.

3. Acquisition



On January 1, 2004 the Company acquired the remaining interest in its joint venture with Porsche AG, of which the Company previously owned a 51% share. The purchase price for the remaining interest in the joint venture was approximately $9.5 million. The acquisition was funded with cash on hand. Goodwill of $4.1 million has been recorded under the Motorcycles segment as a result of this transaction.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...-1781_110k.htm

It happened and it is disclosed public in a regulatory filing. Nothing that the naysayers can say to dismiss it or minimize it. HD partnered with Porsche.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:38 PM   #20
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Me too - plus a 911 C4S

Wow, thats scary. Other than the red interior, I have the exact same combination. My 09 Boxster S even has the same 19" Carrera II wheels.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:07 AM   #21
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Well if you watch "Birth of the VROD" then you be told that the Digger prototype took the engine from the VR1000 (which was designed by Harley-Davidson's skunkworks) and plugged it into a bike. They liked it and took the engine to Porsche and with some Harley-Davidson engineers hardened the engine and made it less expensive.

At best it was a collaboration with Porsche. Porsche did allot of good work on the engine including increasing the displacement from 1000cc to 1130cc and making it damn near bullet proof. After over ~500 hours they disconnected it from the test stand.

So technically, Porsche did not design the Revolution. The 60 degree liquid cooled V-twin was designed by H-D, handed over to Porsche for improvement and handed back to H-D for building and installing on VRSC.

Some people believe that the guys building the engine on the H-D line were actually Porsche employees. When I toured the factory in 2007 they wore H-D apparel and I did not see any Porsche logos.

Nice car BTW.
Save your breathe Ken. You have to understand that for some reason, they badly need it to be a Porsche and will preach a ground-up design till death do them part.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:22 AM   #22
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Porsche to the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 01-06-2013, 07:42 AM   #23
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Haven't been on this site in a while...not since I bought my other toy. In fact, you can see my old girl parked squarely behind my new one. Still, I can't wait until spring to drive/ride both!
My wife has a red '02 S model. Loves that freakin' car. It's funny, she has owned it since new(wow, 10 years now!), and the top has NEVER been up. Her rule is it's a drop top, so the top stays dropped, period.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:34 PM   #24
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Porsche to the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dude looks like a lady....
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:40 PM   #25
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dude looks like a lady....

Sexy as.........


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Old 01-06-2013, 03:50 PM   #26
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Boxter: The ultimate rolling billboard saying: "I can't afford a proper Porsche".

I tried to get my wife to consider buying one so she looked up the test drive on Top Gear. After the statement above on their show, I couldn't even get her to test drive one, so she bought a miata.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:28 PM   #27
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Boxter: The ultimate rolling billboard saying: "I can't afford a proper Porsche".

I tried to get my wife to consider buying one so she looked up the test drive on Top Gear. After the statement above on their show, I couldn't even get her to test drive one, so she bought a miata.
Hey, if you are going to diss a ride, you need to know how to spell it at least..... :-)

And, I have watched Top Gear for the 10 years it has been on, and it was most likely Jeremy Clarkson that said that. He hates all Porsche products....every single one of them......even the hot ones like the GT3 and 997 Turbo.

It's a real shame she accepted the opinion of one car show and bought a Miata.....instead of a Boxster....really?
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:48 AM   #28
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Hey, if you are going to diss a ride, you need to know how to spell it at least..... :-)

And, I have watched Top Gear for the 10 years it has been on, and it was most likely Jeremy Clarkson that said that. He hates all Porsche products....every single one of them......even the hot ones like the GT3 and 997 Turbo.

It's a real shame she accepted the opinion of one car show and bought a Miata.....instead of a Boxster....really?
Any misspelling is a dis all its own.

Don't blame me; I actually agree that the Porch Boxter is amongst the finest chick cars ever built. If I was a chick it would be at, or near, the top of my list. She was looking for the perfect specimen on which to place her vanity tag (GIRLEY) and I did my best to convince her that the Boxter was better suited than the far more track worthy Miata. She would have none of it and said the Porch simply didn't have enough nuts to earn her tag.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta View Post
Any misspelling is a dis all its own.

Don't blame me; I actually agree that the Porch Boxter is amongst the finest chick cars ever built. If I was a chick it would be at, or near, the top of my list. She was looking for the perfect specimen on which to place her vanity tag (GIRLEY) and I did my best to convince her that the Boxter was better suited than the far more track worthy Miata. She would have none of it and said the Porch simply didn't have enough nuts to earn her tag.
I'll bet she drives an A model V-Rod also.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta View Post
Any misspelling is a dis all its own.

Don't blame me; I actually agree that the Porch Boxter is amongst the finest chick cars ever built. If I was a chick it would be at, or near, the top of my list. She was looking for the perfect specimen on which to place her vanity tag (GIRLEY) and I did my best to convince her that the Boxter was better suited than the far more track worthy Miata. She would have none of it and said the Porch simply didn't have enough nuts to earn her tag.
I gotta say though, the Miata scores pretty high on the Fun-Per-Dollar scale.
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