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Old 12-13-2012, 11:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by FastVRJohnny View Post
You can find them for 6-7, while the motor work to get you to the 1190 is going to cost 5-8 grand easy, considering EBR machines their own parts. Getting the race suspension parts, brakes will be another 3-4. You might as well buy a Panigale or a used EBR race bike.
Used race bike? You better have your machinist on speed-dial.

An off the shelf Panigale specs out fabulously but a couple of years of refinement may be needed to find out how many will grenade like certain low mile press bikes.

If you're cutting me a $20k budget for a new Ducati I'll take that underused 1125R and hit the street. With $15000 spare change I can upgrade anything my meager talent or aging body finds inadequate.

Isn't that one of the most awesome things about motorcycles? They're so fungible! From Road Rods to No Limits monster sport-nudes even in our little V Rod ghetto everyone can have a one of a kind expression of freedom.

My bike! Made by me, for me, to suite my taste, skill and needs!
I need to go soak my swollen ego now.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:38 AM   #47
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I'm scratching my head over Louis contention that the Rotax engine in the 1125/1190 is stale technologically. Compared to what? From what I can see the only major change Ducati made to bring us the Panigale was to dump the timing belts for timing chains. The rest falls into the normal tuning and tweaking that goes on year after year on all engine designs. Aside from that, the desmo valve gear pre-dates WWII and was used by Mercedes in some 1950s GP engines. That's state of the art? Desmo valve gear was a crutch for weak valve spring steel. It isn't necessary today. The finger follower set up in the heads of that Rotax/Buell engine are the state of the art, and aside from Buell is used only by BMW in the K1200/K1300 engine family and the S1000RR. The K1600 reverted to sized buckets, meaning no shims, you swap the whole bucket if a clearance needs adjustment. Everyone else is still using shim under bucket like the V-Rod uses. Louis calls that a Cosworth design but it dates to the early 1900s and Peugeot, and again in early Moto Guzzi racing singles circa 1924.
Unlike BMW, Rotax/Buell made designed their valve train so changing shims can be accomplished without draining any coolant or removing the cams. It is a very clever design. A plate is loosened allowing the fingers to be slid out from above their valves so the shim can be accessed with the cam still in place. Nice. BMWs take on finger followers is much less maintenance friendly.
Rotax also put the cam chains for each cylinder on opposite sides of the engine, opposite the side of the crank the con-rod rides in order to keep the cam drive and overall engine width narrow. A lot of forward thinking went into the Rotax/Buell engine. Tell us again Louis what engine has a more advanced architecture. I don't see any.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:44 AM   #48
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Cheap left over 1125 vs nose bleed expensive 1190? I defy any street rider to use everything the 1125 has on the street. If you think you are going to go faster on your favorite canyon road on the 1190 you are deluding yourself. Buy the 1125 and use the money saved on some well chosen upgrades to the suspension and dyno tuning what you have. There is more capability in that 1125 than any rider can use fully on public roads. You need a race track to exploit the difference between the 1125 and the 1190, and even then few riders are that good. Most of us would circulate the track with the same lap times on either bike.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:06 AM   #49
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I'm scratching my head over Louis contention that the Rotax engine in the 1125/1190 is stale technologically. Compared to what? From what I can see the only major change Ducati made to bring us the Panigale was to dump the timing belts for timing chains. The rest falls into the normal tuning and tweaking that goes on year after year on all engine designs. Aside from that, the desmo valve gear pre-dates WWII and was used by Mercedes in some 1950s GP engines. That's state of the art? Desmo valve gear was a crutch for weak valve spring steel. It isn't necessary today. The finger follower set up in the heads of that Rotax/Buell engine are the state of the art, and aside from Buell is used only by BMW in the K1200/K1300 engine family and the S1000RR. The K1600 reverted to sized buckets, meaning no shims, you swap the whole bucket if a clearance needs adjustment. Everyone else is still using shim under bucket like the V-Rod uses. Louis calls that a Cosworth design but it dates to the early 1900s and Peugeot, and again in early Moto Guzzi racing singles circa 1924.
Unlike BMW, Rotax/Buell made designed their valve train so changing shims can be accomplished without draining any coolant or removing the cams. It is a very clever design. A plate is loosened allowing the fingers to be slid out from above their valves so the shim can be accessed with the cam still in place. Nice. BMWs take on finger followers is much less maintenance friendly.
Rotax also put the cam chains for each cylinder on opposite sides of the engine, opposite the side of the crank the con-rod rides in order to keep the cam drive and overall engine width narrow. A lot of forward thinking went into the Rotax/Buell engine. Tell us again Louis what engine has a more advanced architecture. I don't see any.
LOL! I've asked him that a few times myself. I've quit.

You make great points about when and where all this "tech" originated and how long it has been used. I've said it many times. The Revo falls into that category so why all the fuss over who did what? Nothing much is new, nothing much is unique anymore and most all is a slight variation of previously used designs. What gets lost most of the time is the "reliability" factor. There are radical / race applications and then there are street applications. Short term/long term. The 2 get often get layered. The Ducs and Rotax are not the most reliable or durable. It's a trade-off. Always is.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:09 AM   #50
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I dont even know where to start here.

Its the holidays, I'm out of this.
I didn't know wal-mart sold motorcycle engines.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:57 AM   #51
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Nope. Ain't happening.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:10 PM   #52
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I didn't know wal-mart sold motorcycle engines.
It was hypothetical. You don't have to look hard to find the issues with that waste of the Earth's precious resources. That motor is a turd. Go on any Buell forum and see how many issues that big ol' steaming heap of a turd pile engine has.

...as for my other Buells, they had a lot of chincy crap go bad too. Erik Buell designs GREAT looking and riding bikes. If he could get QUALITY up to the level of their performance, well, he would have a winner.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:57 AM   #53
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It was hypothetical. .
You're kiddin'!
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:15 AM   #54
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you're kiddin'!
:d
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:35 AM   #55
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I visited his shop with few friends last year. He personally gave us a little tour (we couldn't really go in the back cause they were working on some top secret sh!t) and we talked .....He mentioned about having three models up his sleeve.....
Waiting.....
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:41 AM   #56
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It was hypothetical. You don't have to look hard to find the issues with that waste of the Earth's precious resources. That motor is a turd. Go on any Buell forum and see how many issues that big ol' steaming heap of a turd pile engine has.

...as for my other Buells, they had a lot of chincy crap go bad too. Erik Buell designs GREAT looking and riding bikes. If he could get QUALITY up to the level of their performance, well, he would have a winner.
How many of these so-called problems are the result of owner abuse? I read accounts on this very site of all the flaws in the V-Rod that somehow don't seem to exist on my own two bikes. There will be a minority of owners of any product who do not have a good result, and they will populate the threads of discussion boards will all kinds of complaints. Meanwhile, an awful lot of us enjoy our bikes, have few if any problems and therefore nothing to write about. We're out riding instead. I would take a lot of what you read on discussion boards under advisement.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:47 AM   #57
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Custom: Bott XR-1

Looks kinda like a Harley XR1200, right? It’s not. That bike makes 85bhp and weighs 573lbs. This bike makes 100bhp and weighs 374lbs. That’s because it’s a Buell motor, wheels, brakes and suspension housed in a custom steel spine chassis. The Bott XR-1 is going to rip.
The XR-1 is the product of Spain’s Bottpower, maker of that impressively intricate steel trellis-framed Moto2 racer and previously a girder front end CBR954RR. The project’s been in the works since last year, when a customer commissioned the firm to build him a Buell street tracker.
“Tt took a lot of time to make it, mainly because we did it thinking in building several units, not just one bike,” Bott’s David Sanchez tells us. “We plan to start selling the kit soon, and we are working on some more special parts and options for this bike.”


The chassis is impressively simple. Simply a steel tube connecting the swingarm pivot to the head stock. Unlike standard Buell’s, the fuel is housed in a traditional tank.

Since the stock swingarm is retained, so is the standard Buell shock position and belt drive. Basically, this thing could quite easily rolled out of the old Buell factory.
“The front fork and 8 pistons brake caliper are from a Buell 1125,” explains David. “Front master cylinder and clutch lever are from ISR (including the push buttons). The bike aslo has a Motogadget display, and an Easton handlebar. Rear shock is an Íhlins from the Buell 1125 race kit.”

The oil cooler is tucked away behind slats in the carbon number board, next to the dinky projector lamps.

A tidy carbon seat/tail/number board completes the incredibly clean package. It appears to be supported by a small aluminum subframe.


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Old 12-17-2012, 11:51 AM   #58
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Wow, I like that. Pretty cool how he did the fuel cell.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:48 PM   #59
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How many of these so-called problems are the result of owner abuse? I read accounts on this very site of all the flaws in the V-Rod that somehow don't seem to exist on my own two bikes. There will be a minority of owners of any product who do not have a good result, and they will populate the threads of discussion boards will all kinds of complaints. Meanwhile, an awful lot of us enjoy our bikes, have few if any problems and therefore nothing to write about. We're out riding instead. I would take a lot of what you read on discussion boards under advisement.
Absolutely....but I was not solely referring to that which I've read on message boards alone. I have had two different Buell XB models....a 2003 XB9r and a 2007 XB12s. They were not track bikes or drag bikes and used for pleasure and work transportation. Both had issues dealing with heat and heat degradation due to terrible air cooling to the rear cylinder and a cheap ass elbow on the oil line....and a failed fuel injector solenoid and a fried ignition coil....to name a few things on BOTH bikes. Heck, rocker gaskets were part of my regular maitenance! My first bike was a 1998 1200 XLH. I beat the living holy hell out of that bike and learned my own maintenance along the way.....and never EVER had even a hiccup. Basically the same motor too.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:52 PM   #60
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I like the idea but how the details are executed is everything. One thing I do not like is a fork mounted oil cooler, both from a steering inertia standpoint and because it is vulnerable in even a minor crash.
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