What eBay is for... - Page 3 - 1130cc.com: The #1 Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum
» Insurance
» Sponsors
Go Back   1130cc.com: The #1 Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum > V-ROD Discussions > V-ROD General
New User? Register - Forgot Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-16-2012, 02:28 AM   #31
Louis
Posting From The Pub
 
Louis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,838
Images: 3
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vambo View Post
They can think it, they can dream it, they can know it, shit it and eat it............but this is HD. The customer base, the faithful's wants and desires and most importantly the bottom line is what determines what they build. Sad but true. It's amazing the V made it out of the board room. It really is.
The whole point about the V-Rod was that it was not really aimed at the Harley faithful, it was supposed to attract a whole new set of buyers. Which it would have done if it had launched with 130BHP and weighed it at 520lbs - it would have been in comparative tests with sports bikes and sports tourers, and all the non Harley buyers outside the US would have heard of it.

With 115BHP and 650lbs it was simply too slow to be seen as anything more than a better Harley, and as soon as people saw the Harley name they lost interest and turned the page. I well remember reading the original tests in the UK - it was amusing to see that Harley had made a bike that was not a total POS, but it was way too heavy for the power and the price was a joke, so I promptly forgot it even existed until five years later when I was in a Harley shop idly considering a toy for posing about on.

So, Harley made a Harley for people who don't like Harleys but then, in my opinion, screwed up, by failing to realise that outside the Harley world 650lb is too heavy and 115BHP is not enough. They could easily have made it 130BHP and 520lb, and they'd have sold them in huge numbers all over the world.
__________________
Louis

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://www.thegentlemansnapper.co.uk

Arnotts, D&D, SEPST, custom paint or all chrome according to mood, GRC seat, wave rotors, Muscle wheels, Burleigh bars, V-Gauge, assorted pretty bits.



2007 VRSC-AW (Fun).
2007 KTM 990 Adventure (Off Road and Touring).
2006 Triumph Daytona T955i (Evil).
2009 Fatboy (Heavily Tarted Up Show Pony).
2011 Bonneville (On long term loan).
1978 Triumph Bonneville Based Racer (Needs A Rebuild)
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:43 AM   #32
Vambo
Banned
 
Vambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,891
Feedback Score: 21 reviews
Louis, this argument is old and tired. You have your view of what it should have been, I think they did a great job creating a true cruiser.

But since you insist on throwing these numbers around and "speculating" as to the effect they might have had. Keep in mind the V-Rod holds it's own and compares just fine, if not superior to most of the competitions cruisers out there. I'm talking true cruisers Louie, so I don't want to hear about the $20K Diavel sports bike with all it's great attributes. I'm talking cruisers. The V-Rod is respectable and more than competitive for that "MARKET". You really think a few pounds and a few more horsies would have made all that much difference? Check the paltry sales on the V-Max my friend. The Max is superior by far and very hard to beat in performance, yet it sits and gets dusty. Numbers don't lie.

The V-Rod sells mainly on it's looks, make no mistake. Even you. The performance is a huge draw for sure but "looks" sell HD"s.
Vambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 03:52 AM   #33
Vambo
Banned
 
Vambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,891
Feedback Score: 21 reviews
Also, Willie G. went thru great pains in an attempt to maintain as much as humanly possible the HD look, sound and "feel". Were he not interested in that the engine would have taken a much different look altogether. So you can assume the bike was built to attract younger buyers and that may have no doubt been a project goal but Willie had a much broader scope in mind. Like the future - we'll see.
Besides that I see the youngest crowd ever on traditional HD's. In fact on baggers, never before have I seen the streets dominated by 30 somethings on RG's.
Vambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:09 AM   #34
Louis
Posting From The Pub
 
Louis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,838
Images: 3
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vambo View Post
Louis, this argument is old and tired. You have your view of what it should have been, I think they did a great job creating a true cruiser.

But since you insist on throwing these numbers around and "speculating" as to the effect they might have had. Keep in mind the V-Rod holds it's own and compares just fine, if not superior to most of the competitions cruisers out there. I'm talking true cruisers Louie, so I don't want to hear about the $20K Diavel sports bike with all it's great attributes. I'm talking cruisers. The V-Rod is respectable and more than competitive for that "MARKET". You really think a few pounds and a few more horsies would have made all that much difference? Check the paltry sales on the V-Max my friend. The Max is superior by far and very hard to beat in performance, yet it sits and gets dusty. Numbers don't lie.

The V-Rod sells mainly on it's looks, make no mistake. Even you. The performance is a huge draw for sure but "looks" sell HD"s.
You keep missing the point. The V-Rod was quick for a cruiser. But only Americans (and the occasional oddbal like me) want cruisers, and Harley had the American market covered already (remember, we are talking 12 years ago here).

You mention the Diavel, and it is a case in point. Ducati make sports bikes, the way Harley make cruisers. But by making something that is nearly a cruiser they have a whole new bunch of people looking at their bikes. Had the V-Rod been lighter and faster, both easy to do, they could have managed the same with the V-Rod. Just as Ducati have made people who would never have considered a Ducati look twice, so Harley could have made people who would never consider a Harley look twice. But because it was still much slower and much heavier than a "standard" bike, only people who knew they wanted a cruiser ever even noticed it.

The V-Rod was supposed to find Harley a new market - people who didn't like Harleys. But because it was still so Harley like, it has ended up appealing to a niche market of people who like Harleys but don't want to go that slow.

As for your comment in the other message about keeping the Harley look - you could take that bike down to 520lb and up to 130BHP without changing the look in any way whatsoever, although I still think the efforts to hide the fact it is water cooled are pathetic and self defeating.
__________________
Louis

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://www.thegentlemansnapper.co.uk

Arnotts, D&D, SEPST, custom paint or all chrome according to mood, GRC seat, wave rotors, Muscle wheels, Burleigh bars, V-Gauge, assorted pretty bits.



2007 VRSC-AW (Fun).
2007 KTM 990 Adventure (Off Road and Touring).
2006 Triumph Daytona T955i (Evil).
2009 Fatboy (Heavily Tarted Up Show Pony).
2011 Bonneville (On long term loan).
1978 Triumph Bonneville Based Racer (Needs A Rebuild)
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:17 AM   #35
BT
I lift heavy things.
 
BT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Planet Australia
Posts: 11,149
Images: 15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
I still think the efforts to hide the fact it is water cooled are pathetic and self defeating.
Its hidden is it ?
BT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:19 AM   #36
Louis
Posting From The Pub
 
Louis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,838
Images: 3
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tony View Post
Its hidden is it ?
Yes - lots of engine finning and radiator hidden in a shroud that tries to look like a bit off one of their fat arsed baggers.

Here you go (God, can you imagine hauling all that lard around with the wheezy gutless air-cooled motor?):

__________________
Louis

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://www.thegentlemansnapper.co.uk

Arnotts, D&D, SEPST, custom paint or all chrome according to mood, GRC seat, wave rotors, Muscle wheels, Burleigh bars, V-Gauge, assorted pretty bits.



2007 VRSC-AW (Fun).
2007 KTM 990 Adventure (Off Road and Touring).
2006 Triumph Daytona T955i (Evil).
2009 Fatboy (Heavily Tarted Up Show Pony).
2011 Bonneville (On long term loan).
1978 Triumph Bonneville Based Racer (Needs A Rebuild)
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:43 AM   #37
Vambo
Banned
 
Vambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,891
Feedback Score: 21 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tony View Post
Its hidden is it ?
I don't get that one either. Bizarre.
Vambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:50 AM   #38
Vambo
Banned
 
Vambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,891
Feedback Score: 21 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
You keep missing the point. The V-Rod was quick for a cruiser. But only Americans (and the occasional oddbal like me) want cruisers, and Harley had the American market covered already (remember, we are talking 12 years ago here).

You mention the Diavel, and it is a case in point. Ducati make sports bikes, the way Harley make cruisers. But by making something that is nearly a cruiser they have a whole new bunch of people looking at their bikes. Had the V-Rod been lighter and faster, both easy to do, they could have managed the same with the V-Rod. Just as Ducati have made people who would never have considered a Ducati look twice, so Harley could have made people who would never consider a Harley look twice. But because it was still much slower and much heavier than a "standard" bike, only people who knew they wanted a cruiser ever even noticed it.

The V-Rod was supposed to find Harley a new market - people who didn't like Harleys. But because it was still so Harley like, it has ended up appealing to a niche market of people who like Harleys but don't want to go that slow.

As for your comment in the other message about keeping the Harley look - you could take that bike down to 520lb and up to 130BHP without changing the look in any way whatsoever, although I still think the efforts to hide the fact it is water cooled are pathetic and self defeating.
Jesus crimeny Louis, are you that dim ? Even at 500 some pounds and 130HP you still have a relatively uncompetitive bike in the real world of fast production bikes. PERIOD. Get the fock over it already. Hell, my scoot is well under stock weight with some nice internal goodies, probably close to tour "vaunted specs" and it ain't no damn Busa killer. Not even close. Kapaesh?
The point is, it would need to be close to 180-200HP and 500# to really compete in that market and draw the "bragging rights" crowd in.
Vambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 05:01 AM   #39
Louis
Posting From The Pub
 
Louis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 7,838
Images: 3
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vambo View Post
Jesus crimeny Louis, are you that dim ? Even at 500 some pounds and 130HP you still have a relatively uncompetitive bike in the real world of fast production bikes. PERIOD. Get the fock over it already. Hell, my scoot is well under stock weight with some nice internal goodies, probably close to tour "vaunted specs" and it ain't no damn Busa killer. Not even close. Kapaesh?
The point is, it would need to be close to 180-200HP and 500# to really compete in that market and draw the "bragging rights" crowd in.
in 2001 130BHP and 520lbs would have been fine. Again, you are stuck in the ghetto of American performance cruiser thinking. Nobody wants a V-Max. It is a bike aimed entirely at the American market, everyone else thinks it is a fat, heavy joke, and you Americans don't seem to be buying it either.
__________________
Louis

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://www.thegentlemansnapper.co.uk

Arnotts, D&D, SEPST, custom paint or all chrome according to mood, GRC seat, wave rotors, Muscle wheels, Burleigh bars, V-Gauge, assorted pretty bits.



2007 VRSC-AW (Fun).
2007 KTM 990 Adventure (Off Road and Touring).
2006 Triumph Daytona T955i (Evil).
2009 Fatboy (Heavily Tarted Up Show Pony).
2011 Bonneville (On long term loan).
1978 Triumph Bonneville Based Racer (Needs A Rebuild)
Louis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 05:30 AM   #40
Vambo
Banned
 
Vambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,891
Feedback Score: 21 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
Nobody wants a V-Max. even with it's 200 HP and superior handling!!!.
So you finally get it? Bravo!
Vambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 05:41 AM   #41
stomper
REVOLUTION !!!
 
stomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Posts: 19,639
Images: 37
Feedback Score: 17 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
in 2001 130BHP and 520lbs would have been fine. Again, you are stuck in the ghetto of American performance cruiser thinking. Nobody wants a V-Max. It is a bike aimed entirely at the American market, everyone else thinks it is a fat, heavy joke, and you Americans don't seem to be buying it either.
Well said Louis - and he still doesn't get it !!
__________________
4 Play 4 Ever
Brian Raguso
1975 - 2007
stomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 06:09 AM   #42
Vambo
Banned
 
Vambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14,891
Feedback Score: 21 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by stomper View Post
Well said Louis - and he still doesn't get it !!


I just love it when the outsiders know better. You're outside the forest as is Louie. I am surrounded by the US market every day, all day! I'm sure the view from Portugal is different. Case in point.


Now, you wanna bitch? This is a big heavy bloke with huge, useless displacement on a total pig. But at least they didn't hide that bigazz radiator ay Loiugi?

Vambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 07:26 AM   #43
dig10
Registered Full
 
dig10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Perth WA Australia
Posts: 583
Images: 4
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Now see what u started David..
__________________
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear

1ATF Nui Dat Vietnam 69-70
dig10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 07:50 AM   #44
PD87
Registered Full
 
PD87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,219
Images: 55
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
I was gonna say this post made a sharp turn!
PD87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:56 AM   #45
FastVRJohnny
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Waukesha and Land O Lakes, WI USA
Posts: 2,209
Images: 13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie82 View Post
Sport bikes sell when they are competitive. Period, end of story.

No one buys a slow race bike. The Buell always was inadequate due to the extremely heavy Sportster engine it was saddled with. In 2008 Buell dropped Harley's engine, and began to make some headway, they had some type of a reflash to the ECM in the first model year. In 2009 the finally 'had it right', even gaining accolades in the Motorcycle press, the new CEO from Johnson Controls made an accounting decision and closed Buell right when it had something to offer.
Not true, Buell never dropped the aircooled bikes. Up until the end, they offered the Lighting, Uly and Firebolt using the Thunderstorm motor bought from HD. They added the 1125's in the R and CR.

These pics were from one the final production days of Buell Motorcycle Company.





FastVRJohnny is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum