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6K views 96 replies 22 participants last post by  Vambo 
#1 ·
buying the single Best Issue of Cycle World ever printed!!!

You know the one? The one with the ONLY TRUE VROD Featured in it.



 

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#3 ·
Still needs paint....
 
#6 ·
Ooh, Triumph Daytona too!

Actually, if that is 2002, the Daytona of that year was a bit of a woofer.
 
#17 ·
I can help here!

Get a test pot of back denim paint then paint the bike on those pages with a fine brush of course... Then its a true v rod!

Book value will increase 10 fold!
 
#18 ·
The A - What Was.

It was truly a work of art, no doubt. It still holds a bit of nostalgia for me. But like all relationships between great art and artists the best is always yet to come. Yet to be drawn or even imagined when that article was written. Yet to know the depth of imagination and creativity that HD could eventually produce. Who knew then? Who knew what paint would do, what heights the V-Rod would reach?

and then it happened:

Enter the CVO's, the SE's and those gawdamn gorgeous paint schemes.
Enter tons of chrome
Enter the choice of color
Enter the R with optional ergonomics and more nimbleness and handling on those demanding California valleys.
Enter the D with optional foot placement, the 5gl tank, tire choices
Enter more HP yet
Enter the 1250

And then it happened, enter the DX which brought it all together and saved the Revo line, saved the V-Rod from the A's eventual fate!!!!
We'll stop there. Tony, take over.

Yes, the A was a ground breaker, especially for HD. But we have all moved on, it's been 10 years. The model A is appropriately named. It is reminiscent of and will forever be linked to the famous Henry Fords model A as the beginning of what eventually became greatness!
 
#19 ·
It was truly a work of art, no doubt. It still holds a bit of nostalgia for me. But like all relationships between great art and artists the best is always yet to come. Yet to be drawn or even imagined when that article was written. Yet to know the depth of imagination and creativity that HD could eventually produce. Who knew then? Who knew what paint would do, what heights the V-Rod would reach?

and then it happened:

Enter the CVO's, the SE's and those gawdamn gorgeous paint schemes.
Enter tons of chrome
Enter the choice of color
Enter the R with optional ergonomics and more nimbleness and handling on those demanding California valleys.
Enter the D with optional foot placement, the 5gl tank, tire choices
Enter more HP yet
Enter the 1250

And then it happened, enter the DX which brought it all together and saved the Revo line, saved the V-Rod from the A's eventual fate!!!!
We'll stop there. Tony, take over.

Yes, the A was a ground breaker, especially for HD. But we have all moved on, it's been 10 years. The model A is appropriately named. It is reminiscent of and will forever be linked to the famous Henry Fords model A as the beginning of what eventually became greatness!
Brought tears to my eyes......
 
#23 ·
Louis - well said. I am sure someone will slam you for not kneeling and crossing yourself in front of the almighty bar and shield.

My take away is the people in product design just don't think along the lines of being competitive from a functional standpoint.
 
#25 ·
Louis - well said. I am sure someone will slam you for not kneeling and crossing yourself in front of the almighty bar and shield.

My take away is the people in product design just don't think along the lines of being competitive from a functional standpoint.
They can think it, they can dream it, they can know it, shit it and eat it............but this is HD. The customer base, the faithful's wants and desires and most importantly the bottom line is what determines what they build. Sad but true. It's amazing the V made it out of the board room. It really is.
 
#26 ·
Of course people want more power, better handling, lighter, etc...besides all the haters (typical FAT, HD AIRHEAD DIRTBAGZ, so many people love the look of the VROD, Especially the DX line. I let a couple of HA fruitcakes ride my DX, they were talking a little smack before the ride, when they got back (I wasn't planning on getting it back) they couldn't believe the power & handling.
 
#32 ·
Louis, this argument is old and tired. You have your view of what it should have been, I think they did a great job creating a true cruiser.

But since you insist on throwing these numbers around and "speculating" as to the effect they might have had. Keep in mind the V-Rod holds it's own and compares just fine, if not superior to most of the competitions cruisers out there. I'm talking true cruisers Louie, so I don't want to hear about the $20K Diavel sports bike with all it's great attributes. I'm talking cruisers. The V-Rod is respectable and more than competitive for that "MARKET". You really think a few pounds and a few more horsies would have made all that much difference? Check the paltry sales on the V-Max my friend. The Max is superior by far and very hard to beat in performance, yet it sits and gets dusty. Numbers don't lie.

The V-Rod sells mainly on it's looks, make no mistake. Even you. The performance is a huge draw for sure but "looks" sell HD"s.
 
#34 ·
You keep missing the point. The V-Rod was quick for a cruiser. But only Americans (and the occasional oddbal like me) want cruisers, and Harley had the American market covered already (remember, we are talking 12 years ago here).

You mention the Diavel, and it is a case in point. Ducati make sports bikes, the way Harley make cruisers. But by making something that is nearly a cruiser they have a whole new bunch of people looking at their bikes. Had the V-Rod been lighter and faster, both easy to do, they could have managed the same with the V-Rod. Just as Ducati have made people who would never have considered a Ducati look twice, so Harley could have made people who would never consider a Harley look twice. But because it was still much slower and much heavier than a "standard" bike, only people who knew they wanted a cruiser ever even noticed it.

The V-Rod was supposed to find Harley a new market - people who didn't like Harleys. But because it was still so Harley like, it has ended up appealing to a niche market of people who like Harleys but don't want to go that slow.

As for your comment in the other message about keeping the Harley look - you could take that bike down to 520lb and up to 130BHP without changing the look in any way whatsoever, although I still think the efforts to hide the fact it is water cooled are pathetic and self defeating.
 
#33 ·
Also, Willie G. went thru great pains in an attempt to maintain as much as humanly possible the HD look, sound and "feel". Were he not interested in that the engine would have taken a much different look altogether. So you can assume the bike was built to attract younger buyers and that may have no doubt been a project goal but Willie had a much broader scope in mind. Like the future - we'll see.
Besides that I see the youngest crowd ever on traditional HD's. In fact on baggers, never before have I seen the streets dominated by 30 somethings on RG's.
 
#46 ·
I understand both sides of your debate.

To paraphrase Louis who says he would have liked a better performing bike.

To paraphrase Vambo says HD didn't have to do better from a performance perspective to sell VRODS. (NOT SURE I GOT IT RIGHT)

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS TO BOTH OF YOU:

Would it have been more expensive to produce a 520lb bike in 2002, that is only 75lbs or 12.5% than what was released.

Would it have really been more expensive to add ram air or some other performance enhancing feature, or combination thereof, to get another 20 horses out of this engine? Why an 1130 to begin with? Why not the 1250?

If HD would have built a better VROD from the very beginning, would they have attracted more guys like me. Guys that were ready to finally give up a sport bike but did not want a 65hp bike?

In all fairness and as VAMBO as stated many times, it is a miracle we got the VROD at all. I get that, but if you are going to market, wouldn't you want a PRODUCT that appeals to as many people as possible?
 
#54 ·
How many of you use the 125 it has now????

I understand both sides of your debate.

To paraphrase Louis who says he would have liked a better performing bike.

To paraphrase Vambo says HD didn't have to do better from a performance perspective to sell VRODS. (NOT SURE I GOT IT RIGHT)

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS TO BOTH OF YOU:

Would it have been more expensive to produce a 520lb bike in 2002, that is only 75lbs or 12.5% than what was released.

Would it have really been more expensive to add ram air or some other performance enhancing feature, or combination thereof, to get another 20 horses out of this engine? Why an 1130 to begin with? Why not the 1250?

If HD would have built a better VROD from the very beginning, would they have attracted more guys like me. Guys that were ready to finally give up a sport bike but did not want a 65hp bike?
In all fairness and as VAMBO as stated many times, it is a miracle we got the VROD at all. I get that, but if you are going to market, wouldn't you want a PRODUCT that appeals to as many people as possible?
All I am saying is it is damn respectable as is. Sure a lot of us want more power eventually, in fact we all want more of everything. Guys on Busa'a eventually ask for more, that's why we have 200HP factory bikes now. My point was that the V is as advertised, built as and sold as a cruiser. In that regard, it's very competitive, In fact, tops in my book(YOU ALL bought what was advertised - PERIOD! If you're unhappy, to each his own) .
My 2nd point is that comparisons to high HP, 50 degree sports bikes is just ludicrous. Stop already.

That 520# thing is an utterly ridiculous goal for not only this bike in particular but for a "cruiser" in general, that's what a Busa weighs in at -/+, a freakin' sports bike with weight conscious designers. And you can bet your azz Ernie, that if it weighed 520 in 2002, the hair splittin' whiners would want 475# now. Kapeash, get my point? And would another 20HP really satisfy this discussion? Seriously? It's irrelevant. Real speed guys do not buy the V, and another 20 wouldn't entice them. 50-60 maybe. And again we would be listening to why didn't they do 160 instead of 140, or 170 instead of 150! How many of you use the 125 it has now???? ......exactly!

It's not exactly easy to get really big HP and reliability/durability from a V-Twin (as in factory models). The Revo is both, and also exhibits great behavior on the street thru the whole range. I'm sure there was compromises in there to reach those goals.
 
#59 ·
All I am saying is it is damn respectable as is. Sure a lot of us want more power eventually, in fact we all want more of everything. Guys on Busa'a eventually ask for more, that's why we have 200HP factory bikes now. My point was that the V is as advertised, built as and sold as a cruiser. In that regard, it's very competitive, In fact, tops in my book(YOU ALL bought what was advertised - PERIOD! If you're unhappy, to each his own) .
My 2nd point is that comparisons to high HP, 50 degree sports bikes is just ludicrous. Stop already.

That 520# thing is an utterly ridiculous goal for not only this bike in particular but for a "cruiser" in general, that's what a Busa weighs in at -/+, a freakin' sports bike with weight conscious designers. And you can bet your azz Ernie, that if it weighed 520 in 2002, the hair splittin' whiners would want 475# now. Kapeash, get my point? And would another 20HP really satisfy this discussion? Seriously? It's irrelevant. Real speed guys do not buy the V, and another 20 wouldn't entice them. 50-60 maybe. And again we would be listening to why didn't they do 160 instead of 140, or 170 instead of 150! How many of you use the 125 it has now???? ......exactly!

It's not exactly easy to get really big HP and reliability/durability from a V-Twin (as in factory models). The Revo is both, and also exhibits great behavior on the street thru the whole range. I'm sure there was compromises in there to reach those goals.
Vambo you made some good points about human nature.

Consider this, in 02 other liter bikes & liter plus bikes were putting out more HP than the VROD and weighed less. While a tremendous departure from what Harley had ever built and released, it was great but could have been better. The fact that it wasn't is clearly reflected in our resale values before the recession.

Look at the Honda 2013 thread here on the forum, people, including myself, are voicing the same opinion about the the new CB1100F, it could have been better.

The point is criticizing the VROD's shortcomings it not an anti Harley thing, rather a simple statement of fact, no matter who makes it.
 
#82 ·
Vambo you made some good points about human nature.

Consider this, in 02 other liter bikes & liter plus bikes were putting out more HP than the VROD and weighed less. While a tremendous departure from what Harley had ever built and released, it was great but could have been better. The fact that it wasn't is clearly reflected in our resale values before the recession.

Look at the Honda 2013 thread here on the forum, people, including myself, are voicing the same opinion about the the new CB1100F, it could have been better.

The point is criticizing the VROD's shortcomings it not an anti Harley thing, rather a simple statement of fact, no matter who makes it.
Ernie, the V-max also suffers from weak sales, in fact much worse that the V. Being such a huge conglomerate affords Yamaha the luxury of keeping it in the line-up all these years. But it's not a true sports bike and it sits in favor of the sports bikes even though it boast incredible amounts of HP and handles well also. HP people buy sports bikes, the V sells on looks. But sure, every bike built will have someone who thinks it can be better, that's why we mod isn't it?
And I never took the criticism as an anti HD thing I just think any shortcomings as you call it are subjective..
 
#52 ·
In 2002 I was happily riding a Yamaha FZ-1 that did everything extremely well. In the context of its contemporaries it was the finest motorcycle I have owned.



Then magazine articles like this one started coming out hyping this revolutionary bike from Harley-Davidson. The looks got my attention and the positive reviews set the hook.

I waited a few months for the $10,000 dealer markup that was going on to fade away, sold the FZ-1, and picked up a new V-Rod for $16995.

That I was disappointed is an understatement. I'd gone from one of the best bikes on the market (and that only cost $6100) to one I couldn't ride 90 miles without having to search for gas, but by that time my ass was so sore from the crappy seat I couldn't wait to get off it anyway.

In cross winds the solid disc wheels wouldn't let air through and, where most bikes would simply lean into the wind, I'd get blown around. If I got passed by a semi on the interstate the front end would wobble like mad.

Within months I'd put up with enough and dumped the bike at a loss.

I remember articles going into detail about how HD went to great lengths to ensure they kept the Harley traditions with the VRSCA but they clearly missed the mark. The V-Rod was ostracized by their normal customer base. Case at point: http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171336

To say that the V-Rod was good enough and some kind of miracle that it was ever built is bullshit. It was and is still an overpriced, substandard motorcycle. Explaining that away because its a "cruiser" is nonsense.

Conversely, if you look at my (and a lot of other new '02 owner's complaints) weight and horsepower were not among them. It would have been great if these things had the handling to back up the engine but for me the other shortcomings made it a non-issue.
 
#58 ·
In 2002 I was happily riding a Yamaha FZ-1 that did everything extremely well. In the context of its contemporaries it was the finest motorcycle I have owned.


.............................

To say that the V-Rod was good enough and some kind of miracle that it was ever built is bullshit. It was and is still an overpriced, substandard motorcycle. Explaining that away because its a "cruiser" is nonsense.

Conversely, if you look at my (and a lot of other new '02 owner's complaints) weight and horsepower were not among them. It would have been great if these things had the handling to back up the engine but for me the other shortcomings made it a non-issue.
I agree, I was also disapointed, I think we both had better rides before the VROD.

The FZ1's were great in 02 with carburetors and are much better now due to EFI.

Whatever shortcommings the bike has, VAMBO is correct, it was a miracle that the MOCO ever produced this bike. For HD it was high speed and they needed Porche's help to make it feasible.

Weight was always an issue for me. SEE NEXT POST
 
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