Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner

Stage II Cams Driveability Review

89K views 216 replies 61 participants last post by  TwinOaks 
#1 ·
I've been searching for a review of the driveability of the Screamin Eagle cams to no avail. I've seen the dyno sheets and they're very impressive, but we don't ride our bikes on the dyno.

IF YOU OWN THESE CAMS, please comment on the street-ability of your bike now vs stock cams:

Is it hard to start?
Does it pull better down low, mid range, upper RPM?
Does it run rough?
Does it stall?
Does it suck gas?
Is it noisy?
Does it run hotter?
Is it smooth?
Is it a mistake for the commuter to use these cams?
Are they worth the money ($400 + install + dyno tune) to you?
 
#118 ·
Ok. I'm convinced. Since I'm going to get the bike dyno tuned with TAB's, TTS MasterTune and Amsoil filter/topless, I might as well do the cams while i'm at it.

Especially since I have two buddys with V-Rods (an A and my old R)-- if I get the cams done and "forget" to mention that to them, it might make for an interesting afternoon when we all go to ride. Watching my buddy's "WTF? Factor" makes it worth it right there. :D

I found the kit online tonight for $399 plus shipping, or I can buy the cams and gaskets seperately for $350. Anyone have any suggestions on the best place (i.e. cheapest) to pick these up?

TIA.

R.
 
#120 ·
Yup, ask for Elvis @ Hales HD when you are ordering your cams. He'll take care of you.
 
#122 ·
Ok-- one other question.....

Is there any reason to buy the SE kit in its entirety? I already have a new Amsoil hi-flow filter and will be staying with the stock velocity stacks (as recommended for street riding). From what I can see, all I really need are the cams and the gasket kit and I found the part numbers for them:

1x 17010-01K $51.04
1x 17473-09 $143.88
1x 17470-09 $154.37

Total: $349.29

Am I missing something?

TIA

R.
 
#123 ·
The different velocity stacs gives you even more HP on the top end when tuned properly. The stock unequal length velocity stacs are designed for the unequal length in the stock exhaust. Almost anyone that has tested them on the dyno have seen the shorter velocity stacs provide more power than the stockers, in my personal experience I saw a difference of 5-6 hp while tuning with the different stacs. I know some will say the opposite but the people with the highestnhp numbers after SE2 cams installed have used the shorter ones... IMHO installing cams and leaving the stock stacs is leaving them short of their full potential... :coff:
 
#126 ·
Ok, now color me confused. From what I've read (and read, and read, and read) here, using the shorter stacks will improve top end-- but at the expense of the lower end and the best combination for "streetability" was the cams with the stock stacks. I believe one of the quotes were actually to "throw the shorter stacks in the trash", or somesuch. My bike isn't a track nor drag bike, but mostly a "go downtown or go play in the twisties" bike so that was the direction I'd planned on. Bottom line is that I'd like the improvement from the SE cams, but don't want to affect the lower end since that's where the bike is used a fair bit of the time.

Am I incorrect on this?

Thanks!

R.
 
#124 ·
Paying it forward

If Your looking for the cheapest way to do this I'll Ship you the un-used un-opened Cam cover Gasket I got with my kit..I used my original. :deal:
Plus Ill ship you the stacks if you want them. I'm using the 58mm Destroyer stacks
 
#127 ·
I'm with ya fly. I have read and read. Hell, I've seen dyno sheets on here supporting both arguments!! Although, yesterday I was at my dealership and we were talking about all this. The v rod guys in the back agreed that using the shorter ones would be a mistake. When I told them that I wanted to send my stock ones to Fitzgerald to get bored to 58, they were concerned about how much mat'l would be left after the bore. I will keep ya posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com App
 
#129 ·
This is making me do the wacky-- I finally make a decision, and then some other tidbit comes out that messes with my mind. Repeat as required.

Bottom line. I want the bike to behave normally down low. I don't care about top end power (other than to blow the doors off my other unsuspecting V-Rod buddys), but like the idea of using the SE Stage II cams to "wake up" the motor. The bike will never see a track or drag strip. From what I've read, using the cams and the stock stacks (not interested in larger injectors, tb or boring out stacks) is the best "street" combination.

Am I completely off base here?

TIA.

R.
 
#147 ·
What you just described is my set up. Stock stacks, cams & 2:1 exhaust. The bike runs GREAT.
 
#138 ·
Does anyone make/sell metal stacks, same length as stock, that are already bored to 58? Wouldn't the metal be better than the plastic. Or is that overkill?
Vance and Hines makes alluminum stacs both 53 and 58mm but iMHO it would be overkill since they don't provide a performance improvement over the plastic ones from what I've seen around. They're also a little different in the top portion which means the bike might need to get retuned after installing them. Any change you make to the airflow tract of the engine will change the AFR in some way or another.

This is making me do the wacky-- I finally make a decision, and then some other tidbit comes out that messes with my mind. Repeat as required.

Bottom line. I want the bike to behave normally down low. I don't care about top end power (other than to blow the doors off my other unsuspecting V-Rod buddys), but like the idea of using the SE Stage II cams to "wake up" the motor. The bike will never see a track or drag strip. From what I've read, using the cams and the stock stacks (not interested in larger injectors, tb or boring out stacks) is the best "street" combination.

Am I completely off base here?

TIA.

R.
As I've stated before, if properly tuned the bike will not loose any performance in the lower range but gain in the mid-upper range, it'll definitely wake up the motor. Fact is, that some people tune their bikes at wide open throttle, get their highest hp numbers, print the graph and send the happy customer home, forgetting to tune the bike in the lower/mid range which is where people ride 90% of the time, thus leaving the bike poorly tuned in the 0-4,500 rpm before the cams "kick in" and giving the false impression of a lack of performance in the lower range. I state this form personal experience too since my bike ran like :stac: below 4,500 rpms the first time it came out of the dyno, took it back and it was retuned and now runs like a champ from stop to redline. The main thing here is:

1) WHO DOES THE INSTALL
2) WHO TUNES THE BIKE AFTERWARDS

Even most Harley dealers dont know crap about Vrod engines, as some members here can share and testify, including member Vrunner79 who had quite an ordeal whith his cams install/tune... Your best bet is to have it done in a dealer with previous experience on this kind of install or even better if it's a dealer that especializes on Vrods. Depending on your location some members here can suggest you some dealers.


I can only relate to you my experience. Have 09 DX,topless, SE cam kit w/ air filter, V&H comp 2/1, H-D SEPST dyno tuned with stock unequal stacks. Quite satisfied with result, idle to appx 4500 rpm felt like stock set up, above that what I noticed most over stock cams was it went to redline quicker. Tried short stacks about 1 month later, only noticeable change to me was instead of hitting hard at 4500 rpm it came on closer to 5000. All else seemed about the same. All subjective as I do not feel the couple of horsepower that may be left on the table is worth the cost of dyno time on a street bike. I will say that my involvement with motorcycles for the last 38 years ( certified H-D factory school grad, 10 years as mechanic at H-D dealership, X/L altered dragracer and builder and test pilot for more configurations of large displacement H-D engines than I care to count) gives some validity to my findings. I chose unequal length stacks as most of my riding is in the 4000 to 6000 rpm range. Try to keep in mind that reponses you get come from a wide range of variability from your conditions. Read as much as possible, look for trends and trust your judgement. Good luck.

Agree with most of what you stated. I wouldnt pay to dyno again if I had to after swapping stacs, BUT the change in behavior in the rpm range tells you something, and the only way to take advantage of that swap is to retune afterwards, otherwise you're only altering the AFR values and obviously the motor will not run properly or optimaly. People think that dynos or custom tuning are only to brag about the hp numbers squeezed but it's an empirical way to monitor how the motor is runing and how it react to different changes. My statements are from personal experience too and I'm just trying to share them that's all, I have no 50 year Harley expertise or anything but have seen the results right in front of me at the dyno and the street.

Again, regardless of the stacs used the cams are a great mod if installed and tuned properly, but IMHO and as confirmed by members here who are real experts, the unequal length stacs are for the stock unequal length exhaust, just think about Destroyers that comes with equal length stacs and it comes with equal length exhaust from the factory.
 
#139 ·
As I stated in my PMs,I might be able to share mine but I'm not sure if it'll work since my bike has no air filter and that changes the tune completely. If a swap from a regular to a high flow filter requieres a retune, imagine the difference compared with having no filter! Also, any details on the tuner you're using? I have the old SERT, which uses different file types than the SEST
 
#134 ·
I can only relate to you my experience. Have 09 DX,topless, SE cam kit w/ air filter, V&H comp 2/1, H-D SEPST dyno tuned with stock unequal stacks. Quite satisfied with result, idle to appx 4500 rpm felt like stock set up, above that what I noticed most over stock cams was it went to redline quicker. Tried short stacks about 1 month later, only noticeable change to me was instead of hitting hard at 4500 rpm it came on closer to 5000. All else seemed about the same. All subjective as I do not feel the couple of horsepower that may be left on the table is worth the cost of dyno time on a street bike. I will say that my involvement with motorcycles for the last 38 years ( certified H-D factory school grad, 10 years as mechanic at H-D dealership, X/L altered dragracer and builder and test pilot for more configurations of large displacement H-D engines than I care to count) gives some validity to my findings. I chose unequal length stacks as most of my riding is in the 4000 to 6000 rpm range. Try to keep in mind that reponses you get come from a wide range of variability from your conditions. Read as much as possible, look for trends and trust your judgement. Good luck.
 
#136 ·
All subjective as I do not feel the couple of horsepower that may be left on the table is worth the cost of dyno time on a street bike
i disagree with you on that commit,
the whole idea of doing a dyno is to get the motor to run as happy(perfect) as you can, and the ONLY way of doing so is to give it to a professional to dial in the VE's and AFR.
I am sorry but dyno's are not about the numbers.
its about a healthy running motor.
you should know this
 
#140 ·
Fab Is right, I did have a ordeal with the tune on my cams. the HD tech got overly cocky on tuning cams that he's never done before and after I reached out to Vreelands HD and we figured out what the problem was, the HD tech STILL wouldn't listen. All mighty HD service techs know everything and the customer knows nothing. I would do the cams again if I pick up another V-Rod but moral of the story. IF you chose to have a HD dealer install / tune them make sure they have prior experience. Don't let yours be a "test monkey"
 
#148 ·
came in late on this

Consider the shaft up grade regardless of TB size. If your working with Scott on your TB it's already there so do it before the shaft breaks. I got lucky on my destroyer and no parts went through the motor. Only had about 50 passes on factory 58MM destroyer TB when shaft failed. Scott made new shafts and hand fitted plates to my TB. Bike picked up a little after Scotts repair!
 
#149 ·
If you live at higher elevations, you might consider this:

"The three main factors determining cylinder pressure are the compression ratio modified by camshaft duration and altitude. Higher altitudes lower atmospheric pressure because there is not as much air. Therefore, less air results in less compression. As a generalization, the higher the altitude the less camshaft duration is necessary. This does not apply to visiting higher altitudes as cam duration reduction is not possible without replacing the camshaft. Less duration is necessary when living and riding at higher altitudes most of the time. Increasing cylinder pressure results from more compression and less cam duration. Conversely, a decreased cylinder pressure is the result of less compression and more cam duration."

From "Donny's Unauthorized Technical Guide to Harley Davidson 1936 to Present"
 
#151 ·
Quick note on the 58mm tb. I drag raced and worked with 1500 hp nitrous motors for many years and been to engine dynos many times and test and tunes sessions 100s of times at the track trying different combos. We all know (most on here at least) The motor will only suck in as much air as the combo will pull in and let out unless some type of forced injection is used. That being said if the combo is correct from hd with the 53mm tb when the motors stock then if you add cams and a pipe and porting and surface the head to bump compression and airbox mods it should pull more top end hp with the 58mm tb no doubt if dialed in correctly as it would be a slight restriction with 53mm tb unless the 53 is more than needed for a factory motor. Whoever somehow lost hp doesn't make sense if the combo is dialed in as again the motors not gonna pull in less air with the bigger tb but it may lose some low end torque and run slower at the track but should still make as much or more top end hp. If your running slower with more hp you need to change your gearing to be up more in the higher rpm range.
 
#153 ·
Just wondering if people are putting thousands of miles of street riding on SE Pro Stage 2 cams and noticed that valve clearances close up faster than typical of the stock cams or how much tappet noise they experience. I liked the power delivery of those cams, but if you read my experiences with them, I had major problems with them the way I ride, which is fast back road running. Curious what others have experienced. I miss the way they made power.
 
#154 ·
No issues here with the power they make... I have 7000 miles on mine & it's all good.
 
#155 ·
I love the extra power with the head work and 58 tbs but it does change the low speed cruising characteristics. The bike likes higher RPMs and a lower gear when cruising at lower speeds. I've made the adjustment and all is well but it does change the driving characteristics of the bike. The cam chatter is a bit more but does not bother me and I don't think is as bad as what some might say. What I do like is the exhaust note with the cams. Sounds like a cammed big block V8 at idle. Starting the 1130 motor does take a bit more juice with the ported and modded heads I have but is no problem. If you have a 1250 or stock heads on an 1130 you should be fine as there is a compression release built in. The motor runs no hotter. I consider it an upgrade that is worth the cost. Best HP for the money.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top