I know this is very subjective but i want to hear your thoughts on which way i should go to make some more power. I have an 02 with V-Modded Se slip ons, with the SE air fliter and the flash that comes with getting the SE slip on's. I have a 28T pulley, running topless and am looking for more ponies.

Ive read about the PCIII, Race Tuner and a little about the Techlusion TFI BOX . Some questions are........how hard is it to use each one of these? Installation.....easy hard??? Do i need to have it dyno right after installing ? I know very little about any one of them and have hesitated becasue of that but it is now time for me to learn! I see that John is getting 117hp and that looks good. Im curious how much you got from adding the PCIII. Im currently getting 109.3. Is it likely to get another 8 or so HP just from tuning from any of the above choices.

Thanks in advance!

Since the ONLY way you are going to get that last few HP out of your bike is to dyno tune it you should use the Race Tuner. The only reason to get the PCIII would be to take advantage of maps that have already been done for combinations that are radically different from the Harley SE Combos. Your setup is very close to the SE setup, that's why you are getting 109.3 already. Using the Race Tuner will allow you to adjust for the 28T pulley, maintain good driveability, make maximum HP and still get reasonable fuel economy. A properly tuned V-Rod in your configuration should get between 37 - 40 MPG (depending upon riding style) and make 115 - 118 HP.

The only down side, there aren't as many techs up to speed on the RT as there are on the PCIII (at least that seems to be the consensus, my experience has been that if they are good on the V-Rod then they prefer the RT).

Oh, I almost forgot, you asked about easy...... If it was easy then you would have a lot of 115+ HP V-Rods out there. None of the fine tuning is easy with any of these products. The level of ease is also relative to your technical skills. For me the RT is easy, for many it's beyond them.

I guess i should ask who makes the Race Tuner? AND how exactly does this work copaired to the others?

Also ............ what other way is there to make HP without using the above mentioned products. (while keeping the motor general stock form)

CW-VRod, the race tuner is genuine HD. That is why it can be a very powerful tool. It does not have to fool the control module it can actually re-program the module with new data.


Max

What they said!:cool:

Just read this thread ...........

I have an '4 VRSCB with V-Mod SE slip ons, K&N filter and the HD race tuner. I get 107.9 rwhp and 73.4 rwtq according to the dyno at dealer where I purchased the bike. After reading this thread, it's obivous my tech is lacking either in knowledge or the correct attitude.
I do have the abilty to understand the race tuner software (I've been an IT manager for some time now) and plan on becoming my own 'expert' this winter.

I'm glad I found this thread. You guys are wealth of information.

Max, great forum!:plause

All,
Go here (http://www.v-rodforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44) to read the excellent "sticky" from Mark on the "verbology" of the EFI system and those products that can influence the fuel injection system. I will copy the sticky over to this forum as well as it is an excellent high performance reference!

Mike
:biker:

I don't like my pcIIIr.Going to get race tuner over the winter.More tuning can be done w/the tuner.

I am pretty sure that the boys at my HD dealer dont have much experience with the V-rod and the Race Tuner!! Is there anyway you can relay settings over the web and we can just use them?? I really dont understand what is involved with the Race Tuner but if that is possible I would be all over that!! Dyno Days are coming up and I want to lay down some sweet numbers!! So far I have the V-mod mufflers in a box......My bike is at RMDBillet so I havent been able to work on it. What else should I be looking at for performance items?? Are there any HD's that I should be worrying about that might put more ponies then me?? I dont know what kind of #'s 1550's put down??

Bartels,
I ran against a friend of mine that has a new '03 ElectraGlide standard that has 103" kit, ThunderCones and various other trick stuff. He is the type of person that has to have the throttle twisted to the max ALL the time. It's amazing he is still alive. Anyway, I smoked him with my V-Rod. Standing still or from a roll, he didn't have a prayer. He came running to me at a gas station (go figure?) and he said he couldn't believe how quick my bike was. I really did feel good about that. He couldn't believe how close to stock I was with just V-Modded pipes, SE air cleaner and the race tuner software. I think the real trick is that this bike was dialed in on a dyno. I'm so happy!!!
Fred
Just watch out for those pesky new ('04) R1 Yamahas. 180 hp an a little more than 300 lbs.! Yikes!

Does anyone know where a good dealer (close to Sioux Falls, South Dakota) that would be able to help my dyno my bike and get it tuned in with the Race Tuner??

try J&L harley right in souix falls they might be able to help, where abouts in the dakotas u at i lived in souix foo for a while:icon_mrgr or you could drive the extra 3 or so hours to Fargo Hd i know they can help you

J&L is where I bought my bike. After talking to the Parts guys about the race tuner and the performance side..... I am not in that big of a hurry to let them mess around on the dyno with it! Maybe I should talk to the service side before I totally rule them out???

The 'virtual girls' are awesome! Especially the brunette!!!! Momma!

I have the RT in a box pending in tank pump replacement at dealer. Still the question remains are there any posts where you can get different calibrations for the RT. I will not have V-Mods. TurboTecs, D+D, or maybe Supertrapp. Are there better starting points than software provided in the CD.
If I sound ignorant maybe it is because I am about 1/3 through the RT manual. I need the most info possible since for the time being I don't have a reliable tuner I can trust.
RT seems easy on paper (.pdf I should say) but it may become difficult in practice, I think.

Hello all,
New to this forum, but appreciate the wealth of knowledge and experience here. Saves us all some headache and time. I too am debating this issue, and am wondering if the R/T is tunable for someone without a dyno. It doesnt seem so, and I have no faith in my dealers techs. V-Mod has a custom map for the PC3R for the setup I am planning on... will that be adequate? My goal is better sound, and NO power loss. More power will of course be appreciated. :banghead




'03 stock, stock, stock.

Welcome, Greg. What set up are you planning?

Val

Thanks for the reply Val,
I was leaning towards Steves stage 2 package, which is SE V-mods, PC3R, SE air filter, 28 t pulley, speedo recalibrator, and topless. Steve has a custom map for the PC with this setup, and I think he has done a lot of dyno time. I love the look of the 2-1 setups, and I guess this is why I am still holding out on this change. Want to get the most bang for the buck, of course, but want to retain driveability and reliability. So far though, I love the bike... any problems I have had have been from ham handed mechanics.:blahblah:

enough rambling. Thanks again
Greg

'03 stock, stock, stock (still)

Steve is coming out with some stainless steel (lighter!) 2 into 1 pipes this winter. You might wait... I'm betting he will have a 'package' that does it all.

I saw that post and am looking forward to the results. I wont be ready to do all the mods until about Feb anyway, so maybe that is fate? Steve was planning these earlier, but there wer complications. I access the internet from work, so MP3's are filtered and I have not heard the sound file for the Supertrapps. If anyone has a .wav file of their STs I would love to hear them, or even Kaz's Turbotechs. I have a feeling that Steves will be similar. He had said something about the current setups being too $$$$$ ro too much like a big twin for the V-rod.

Greg

I have a video doing a burnout with the ST's and my old setup but can't post it!:( Maybe John or someone else has a copy to post or e-mail me and I can send it that way!:cool:

Greg687

Go to this link and go to the last file it is a ST sound file.

http://www.v-mod.com/media/

Thanks Frank,
Problem is, I can't access MP3 files from here. (stupid filters)
I even have Kaz's video, but no sound with it :confused: so this might just be my penalty for using work to get on line.

:confused: Every one I ask makes the face and on questioning they seem to know less theory than I do about the RT and I am going on 3/4 of the 123 page pdf. This has to be a bad sign.
It does not seem like Rocket Science. Actually the RT seems quite user friendly. It WILL be more difficult in practice, I know! The stealer does not have a dyno. I can do it somewhere else but do you think I can make the tune myself with very little experience (cars) and with the help of a non RT oriented dyno tech (they do PC3 all the time).

The face I see in the stealer? This one! Bad sign or what?

Hey!!! I have seen that very face over here!

:rofl3:

Ok, queston is, does the R/T 'require' a dyno to tune it? Are there pre-made maps (ala PC3) that can be used until I can get on a dyno? Seems to me that for the average joe (me) without a dyno, without good stealer support, that the PC3 (or other such animal) is the way to go. Please, enlighten me if I am wrong. I can't wait to perk up my baby's sound!

It really depends on how much your configuration deviates from the HD SE parts. The RT comes with maps for both SE pipes as a starting point. Be forewarned that the publicly available PCIIIr maps have met with limited success with many on this forum (others have no problems). EITHER one needs a final dyno tune to make sure everything's OK :2cents

Thanks MJW930,
I guess more homework is in order. I have a friend that is pretty good with the PC, but I don't know of any one in my area (far west TX) that has the RT. I love the idea of the adjustability the RT has. Never an easy answer when $$$ and HP are involved. (sigh)

I believe having a dyno is a big timesaving convenience. The reading of my RT manual tells me that you can strap a computer onto the back of the bike and data log some runs (identical to making the various dyno pulls).

The graphs should give you a decent idea of what your fuel/air ratio is doing. Pushing it up or down in the RT is easy. Then another run on the street (sorry, I meant to say closed circuit track) can be logged to verify the results. That is how the tuner was setup to work, the instructions step you thru these procedures. You may need to try it a few time to gain a little experience.

The RT claims to have a limited range of adjustability to protect you from tuning it down (or up) to a truly dangerous level for the engine. If that's any consolation... That doesn't mean that over a long time of running too lean, you wont destroy your engine, because you can. It means that your next immediate run during testing won't endanger your engine

The RT certainly can provide you with the power and versatility to get your EFI dialed in very tightly. All of that should be possible without ever rolling your bike onto a dyno. Share your graphs on this forum and the V-Twin EFI forum and you will get some good advice from the people who have a depth of knowledge and experience tuning with the RT.

But you gotta make yourself comfortable that you can do this first. If you don't like your results, you can always flash back to your current baseline, and go find that far away dyno...

Orest,

The biggest drawback of not tuning on a dyno is the lack of any exhaust gas analysis. Strapping a computer onto the bike and logging data runs will tell you what the ECM is doing but it won't give you exhaust gas analysis. The AFR it records is the target number it reads from its tables, not what is actually coming out the pipe.

There is a way to convert the raw data into simulations. These simulations will report calculated HP and 1/4 mile runs. By tweaking setting you can use these as baselines but the process is tedious at best.

The best use of data logging is to record what's happening and what parts of the maps are being accessed during specific types of riding. Lets say, for example, that you're getting a stumble around 3500 rpm at partial throttle. You can strap on the RT and go for a ride to recreate the event. You then review the logged data for the time, RPM or speed that the problem occurred and find out what the areas of the map the system was in and what values seem the be out of line. You might find that the system is detecting knock and retarding the timing. You could then back off the timing in that area of the program, download the update and go for another ride. Race teams would use this to pull real time data on areas where they are having trouble such as 3rd gear shift point, deceleration into turn 4, etc.......

Orest,
Your really not all that far from me. Who do you use for a tuner / Dyno? I havent really heard much about the shops in my area and wouldnt mind heading north for a dyno.

Thanks

R&R Cycle is were I plan on going here in Manchester, NH.

http://www.rrcycles.biz/

They have a great reputation for dyno tuning, although their rep has been made primarily on the Power Commander product which they sell.

I just got past my 1000 mile break in just in time for the riding weather to get cold. I'm currently running V-Mods, K&N Filter, still got the top on, and '04 RT with the SE map found on the CD. My plan was trailer-in during the winter, when they have more time then they know what to do with, and work with their tuner -- kinda run what I know about the RT with the years of experience that their dyno guy has tuning race and chopper engines.

My wife has MoCo connections and every once in a while I run into the factory area rep during social events. I was thinking of phoning him to ask him which dealers in our area have top-notch RT tuners (stay tuned). Every dealer in my area has renovated or moved to a newly built enormous facility, but I never inquired about their capabilities because my timing for a Dyno was mid winter.

Thanks............Keep me posted if you will!

I was thinking doing the same..........over the winter get dyno with a RT.

I jsut noticed your Rt107 sign on your avatar.

I was on Rt 107 a week ago yesterday! Took it from the intersection of 108 up to RT 28 then up to alton and over to laconia. Great ride! Came up from just north of Boston and never hit a highway!!!!! Tons of bikes out that day.........im sure this week was wayyyyyyyy different (very cold/windy here)

That was a freak day... 72 degrees, bright sunshine. You were on the best stretch of NH 107: between Rt 4 and Rt 28 (where you turned right to go to Alton Bay). That section rolls thru some big hills with sharp curves in every mile.

The next part that you missed continues rolling over big hills. There are many more vista views, the road stretches out much longer without crossing other roads or towns, and the curves are less twisty. We always make a point of either returning from or going to Laconia on 107.

You got a chance to experience first-hand that New Hampshire is the state with the highest per capita motorcycle ownership in the nation. Did you stop in to Merideth HD (just north Weir's Beach, Laconia)? My wife hung out there that afternoon, said that the parking lot looked like a giant bikers festival.

Tomorrows forecast looks more like December. My wife is however optimistic that we will get another day of warm weather to ride in before the winter blows in.

http://www.nanovia.com/9nov03.jpg

Keep in-touch (my email appears below), it would be great to connect with a V-Rod or two. I'm typically the only one. There are thousands of miles of well maintained yellow strippers up here and the regular residents of this state are used to sharing the roads with thousands of bikers.

I'll post the results of "known good" HD RT locations as soon as I get a chance to meet up with the rep.