After reading numerous posts on other forums and interjecting what turned out to be false information due to my lack of understanding and my now first hand experience with the HD kit I think a post to clarify the issue might help answer some questions and resolve some misinformation.

Aftermarket 28T pulleys offered by TurboTec and Mainstreet (V-Mod) consist of only the actual pulley. The HD kit consists of a pulley, output flange, shorter belt and assorted nuts and bolts. The difference may not seem significant but read on. ;)

All pulleys consist of 2 basic parts, the 3 point flange that attach's to the transmission output shaft and the actual pulley itself. Here's where the difference comes in. The Harley 28T pulley has a smaller inside diameter thus requiring a smaller flange. The aftermarket pulleys are machined to retain the 30T's inside diameter meaning you can use the flange already installed on the bike. Here's where the major difference in the installation lies.

To install the HD kit you must remove the flange which is press fit onto the output shaft. To do this requires some tools and/or tool fabrication that many of us may not have at our disposal. The 2 major tools are a 30mm thin wall socket (or a thick wall socket ground down to 39.6mm outside diameter) a 3 arm gear puller and some mechanism to prevent the flange from turning as you remove and install the nut which is torqued to 118 ft-lbs.

To install the aftermarket pulleys all that's required is to remove the 3 16mm bolts holding the pulley on and reinstall them with the new pulley.

For those who either do not have the tools at their disposal or are considering switching between pulleys when they plan a long ride the factory kit IS NOT for you. My suggestion would be to buy the aftermarket pulley and if there's an issue with the belt tension buy a belt for the '04 VRSC's.

Average installation time:

Aftermarket = 20 - 30 minutes
HD kit = 45 minutes - ???? depending on tool availability

Thanks for listening :)

Mark

Support the Little guy who made the first one anyways.Sam at Tubo Tec USA!;)

I never thought I'd say this but I should have listened to you from the start. :notworthy

For a guy who was contemplating which side of the cliff to jump off of... (H/D kit or Aftermarket) I am SO glad I read this post.

I literally had my finger over the enter button yesterday to order the 28 tooth pulley from Hale's (yes they are now available to Internet purchase rather than just "in store purchase only.") Looks like I will spend the little extra scratch and get the Turbo Tec one.

Kaz, you referenced me to Sam at Cycle Dynamics once before (1-602-242-6099), is there a code word or phrase to receive the :notworthy "I know Kaz" discount?!?!?!!:D

Mike

Can someone post the HD part number for the '04 belt only?

Listening to you guys, I too will order the Turbo Tec product. Or can the Turbo Tec people also sell me the shorter belt? I like the idea of a kit, I get the impression that for the easy change option, a new belt and pulley from the after market shop of your choice is all that is needed?

mjw930: I understand the desire for swapping, but wouldn't that mean that in one of those configurations the spedo and odo would be off...? Does anyone know what the "mph delta" would be?

I'm in a peculiar postion, I took the bike down to the point of removing the stock flange awaiting the arrival of a package from Hales today. Luckilly I didn't remove the flange because the parts won't be here till Tuesday :( Not Hales fault just the way Fedex ground works. So now I've put the bike back together again so I can ride it today and tomorrow but I'm on the fence whether I should return the HD kit and order an aftermarket pulley...... Anyone know what a drive belt costs?

Via (a real name would be nice)

I have the new version of the Race Tuner. All I need to do is reload my map and tell it I have the 28T. The adjustment is 7%.

Mark

The part # for the 2004 belt is 40105-04. Chicago HD lists the belt as $207 discounted to $165.60

Thanks Don,

Damn, the belt alone is $207 MSRP. That means the pulley and flange are only another $40 :confused: (you must have been on the ChicagoHD site the same time I was, I might not buy from them but I sure use that parts lookup page alot :) )

I guess I'll keep the HD kit, I have all the tools now so I can always go back if I want, just buy another washer and nut (one time use).

Thanks again,
Mark

Mark,
Any idea why the nut is good for one use only?

Here's another random thought, Do the holes on the 2 flanges match up and is the difference in the inside diameter small enough to machine the Harley 28T pulley to fit the 30T flange?

If the answer is yes and yes then I might just have a firend machine the inside of the 28T so I don't have to remove the flange and can switch off as needed.

If the answer is yes and no then maybe machining a collar that slips inside the 30T to make up the slack?

If the answer is no and no then I guess I'll get some use out of the tools I bought/fabbed for this project :rolleyes:

Originally posted by djoyce
Mark,
Any idea why the nut is good for one use only?

Other than the manual saying it's one use only I can only guess that because of the high torque values and small thickness they are worried about thread fatigue.

What do you give up at cruising speed on the highway when you switch to the 28T? Is there that much of a desire to swap back for those long trips?

I doub't they would as the flange is made to fit somewhat snug to the pulley. There was a lot of slack in the mounting holes but that would make it very easy to get off center.

Originally posted by Via VRSCA
What do you give up at cruising speed on the highway when you switch to the 28T? Is there that much of a desire to swap back for those long trips?

Orest,

There's lots of threads on this on various forums but the bottom line is about 300 rpm more with the 28T in 5th gear.

I think that I'll go to the 28T and probably just stay with it. With the quality of the secondary roads in NH, I find myself jump'n on the expressway only for the few times that I'm in a hurry...

...I try to not be in a hurry to get anywhere when I'm on the bike.

Originally posted by djoyce
I doub't they would as the flange is made to fit somewhat snug to the pulley. There was a lot of slack in the mounting holes but that would make it very easy to get off center.

Yes, I saw that. This looks like another engineering exercise gone amiss by HD. If they would have simply made the 30T wall thickness more they could have used the same flange for either pulley. How that they have 28T's in the US and 30T's in the rest of the world they have to keep an inventory of 2 different flanges as well as the extra casting (the unit looks cast, if it's forged then the price goes up even more). Doesn't sound like much to us but when you add up the cost over 10000+ bikes a year it's a significant savings.

If you can't tell I'm an engineering manager and I spend almost as much time directing my engineers to look at the whole picture as I do actually designing stuff :eek:

Originally posted by mjw930
If you can't tell I'm an engineering manager and I spend almost as much time directing my engineers to look at the whole picture as I do actually designing stuff :eek:

Please see if you can infiltrate the MoCo and get them straightened out.

Yep, this has been all over the Yahoo message board! Really makes me happy I did the Turbo Tec pulley almost a year ago!


John

Once again it's that CASH THING!You must bring it to a dealer to have it installed or pay the bucks for your own special tool!:rolleyes: MOCO is pretty smart that everything"well almost" they make after market need the dealership to install correctly! :cool:

This has been asked before and we have a smaller group here but ..... How many people have needed the extenders with the 28T and the stock belt?

Mark I did not need the extenders but mine was right at the end of the adjustment.


Max

Mine too!:cool:

Has anyone running the 28T with the 02-03 belt had a problem with belt failure? Just curious as the 28T is actually smaller than the 5" radius that the MoCo recomends.

Belt noise seems to be the biggest complaint. But you are correct that the belt is being bent farther then it was originaly intended.

Max

My belt made all kinds of noise in stock configuration, after going to the HD pulley kit noise has dropped to zero. Go figure, difference in belt composition mabey?:confused:

It might be, I think belt alignment makes a big difference as well and since the adjusters seem a little sloppy or less then exact it may just be that they got the rear wheel in perfect alignment.


Max

They would be "me" Max, thanks for the compliment;) Seriously though, has anyone noticed the difference in the recommended belt tension between the owners manual and the service manual? Service calls for 6mm at 10lbs owners calls for 7.9 to 9.5 at 10lbs. Typos? or is belt adjustment not as critical with the Revolution motor as it was with the Evo.

How tight was the hub on the trans shaft when you installed your pulley. Were you able to get it loose with a regular puller?

Max

The hub came right off with my $10 harmonic balancer puller. not too much effort required. The hard part was getting the flange nut off, that took a 3 foot cheater and some tool fab to keep the flange from turning.

Thanks I was curios how tight they were.

So,
Bottom line at the bottom of the thread....
Get the Turbo Tec 28 Tooth Pulley here. (http://www.v-mod.com/shop/viewCategory.asp?CID=103,145)

And there is really no need for a new shorter belt or axle extenders.

Right?!

Mike

Not quite right Mike.
Steve doesn't carry Sam's Pulley any longer. Why it's still on his site, I don't know. I have a hunch if you ordered it from him, you would get the V-Mod pulley. Order the Turbo Tec pulley here! (http://www.turbotecusa.com/index.html) . And you probably won't need a shorter belt. You can always just use the axle extenders if you have to.

http://www.turbotecusa.com/images/vrod-28t_big.jpg


John

Mike the turbo tec is the 10 to 1 favorite, I purchased the HD kit when I purchased the bike, just another item on a long list of extras, not because I thought it was a better product. The group seems to agree that the pulley is the only thing you would need. The only other issue to consider is that the Turbo Tec is aluminum and the HD is cast iron so wear issues may come into play but I bet those are many miles down the road.

Has anyone gotten the V-Mod pulley? Is there a great deal of difference? I know the original idea belongs to Sam at TurboTec, but for the same price PLUS axle extenders from MSM... Chopper Steve might get my business?!??!

Mike:confused:

Mike, I just sent you a PM.


John

Called cycle dynamics and talked directly to Sam. What a great guy! They are currently in the process of machineing more of their "world famous" 28 tooth pulleys, so If you are in the market, call now!! I got my name on the first one available! I asked for my SuperKaz discount, and he told me that the price just doubbled? WTF is up with that?!?!?:laugh:

Mike

P.S. This thread ought to be a sticky!

Mike,
I could have told you NOT to mention Kaz! After all Sam had to put up with him during the NOS install! No wonder you got charged double. Did Sam say how long it would be?

John

Order is at the machinist right now, but he didn't want to be nailed down to a date. He asked when I needed it by (probably thought I was headed for Daytona!) but I told him ASAP. He sounded a bit relieved! I feel very good about this purchase!

Scout

So I guess I need to look into the speedo re-calibrator? Or will the PCIIIr work? Somehow I don't think the PCIIIr matter too much in this application?!?!:confused:

The PCIIIr will NOT adjust the speedo. You need one of three options: Race Tuner (B version), HD flash (33241-04 or 33243-04) or one of the two re-calibrators.


John

I'm Sam's V-rod Protégé!:rolleyes: Now if I can only get in the 9's I'll be somebody!;)

As per Mike's (Scout) suggestion I copied the first post into a closed, sticky thread for reference and edited the name of this thread to refer to the discussion.

I agree that the information is valuable and shouldn't get lost as this section fills up but I hate to "sticky" long, active threads so I created a clone :sinister:

Now I'm Really confused!:confused:

Just keep on posting and ignore me. ;)

You Gotta it Bro!;)

The easy switch thing is one reason why I went to the aftermarket. While I do have the needed tools to perform the switch, I thought it was possible I'd switch back & forth and thought it was easier.

Another big reason is performance. The aftermarket ones are aluminum, while it may not last as long as the HD steel ones will it's a lot lighter, a whole lot lighter. This is reduced rotational inertia, which translates into increased accelleration. How much? I don't know. FYI: the HD 30T is 3.26lbs and the V-Mod 29T is 1.26lbs. That's big.

I did find that I'm all the way out on the adjusters and I swear I can feel the difference in handling, bike feels longer. I've got an '04 belt on order.

FYI: the TT 28T was a lot more expensive to me, I could have had the HD kit for ~$160, TT's was $220 + a belt. Not only would I prefer to support the guy who did the initial R&D, but I think it's a better solution.

Robin, you said earlier you could feel NO difference?!?

John

Originally posted by Ketsugo
Robin, you said earlier you could feel NO difference?!?

John

Huhh?

Find it, as I recall I said something to the effect of "you'll call me crazy, but I swear I can feel the difference pushing the rear wheel all the way out made"

or something along those lines.

You stated on the other forum you could feel NO difference.

John

Originally posted by Ketsugo
You stated on the other forum you could feel NO difference.

John

having trouble with reading comprehension again?

Are you going make me look it up?

John

My mistake, I misread your post over there. You stated,


And call me crazy, but I swear I can feel the handling difference pushing the wheel all the way back makes.





John

d'oh




What's the story behind the pic in your sig?

Just found it on the web, with a google pic search.

M Maxx....so your saying an 04 belt with a V MOd pulley is the best way to go in your opinion?? I see you say a 29t belt rather than the 28t is this correct?

I don't want axle extenders I want the OEM fit finish if all possible

That is a huge weight difference your right of unsprung weight

I guess after I will need to go to the dealer for a re cal on the speedo maybe a quick flash

I'm running the TT 28T. ~500 mi so far.

I really like the way the bike feels with the 28T. Huge improvement over the 30T

Today just put the Avon 200 on.

Will know more after the weekend.

Still running 03 belt (04 was on backorder, it'll be here wed.)
I'm at the end of the adusters and it's a tad on the loose side.

Originally posted by VRODScout
Called cycle dynamics and talked directly to Sam. What a great guy! They are currently in the process of machining more of their "world famous" 28 tooth pulleys, so If you are in the market, call now!! I got my name on the first one available! I asked for my SuperKaz discount, and he told me that the price just doubled? WTF is up with that?!?!?:laugh:

Mike

John Terranova, Sam's brother, emailed me today, Monday 27 OCT and the TurboTec pulleys are back from the CNC guys! Should be to me within the week! I'm a happy boy!:D

Mike:cool:

Originally posted by VRODScout
John Terranova, Sam's brother, emailed me today, Monday 27 OCT and the TurboTec pulleys are back from the CNC guys! Should be to me within the week! I'm a happy boy!:D

Mike:cool:

Your SLUG is gonna become a ROCKET!:moped


John

It has been a long time from the last post. BUT, I did buy the HD kit but will use only the belt. Ordered a TT 28t because of the ease to change back to a 30t but more so because it is much lighter.
Question is; when and if I were to use the 30t again, will I need to use my old belt or will the '04 belt fit with the 30t?

You will need your old belt, the new belt will be too short. Also, make note of the orientation of the belts. Once they are run in they should not be reversed. Kind of like radial tires ;)

mjw930 :D Thank you very much! Very helpful, and not just because of this particular reply. Your other posts have made my learning curve much steeper. At some point one should be thankful and this seems like a good time.

This also goes for Max, Danii, Kaz, Ketsugo, Val, MRKING, and many others in this and other forums.

:cool: This forum stuff is soooo very cool!

OK , here we go again............
I did a search and I could not come up with this answer.
If I need axle extenders , which are better ???
Mainstreet
TurboTec
They are about the same price.
Thanks for any opinions on the quality or ease of use or are they just the same piece/material ?
Thanks ,
BobT
EDIT: I purchased the 28 tooth from a forum member and I currently have a 29 tooth that I love , but the belt is sort of at its' limit .So I was looking to get the extenders for when I want to go with a little bottom end.I will switch back and forth as my ride to work is 69 miles each way. Ok ? That should help.
Thanks again .
BobT

Bob T... I installed the Turbo tec on mine without the axles extenders with no problem, oh ya and love it!!!!!!

OK , here we go again............
I did a search and I could not come up with this answer.
If I need axle extenders , which are better ???
Mainstreet
TurboTec
They are about the same price.
Thanks for any opinions on the quality or ease of use or are they just the same piece/material ?
Thanks ,
BobT
If you got it from the group buy,then it is natural to go with Sam's.
V-mod has 2 different styles.

The part # for the 2004 belt is 40105-04. Chicago HD lists the belt as $207 discounted to $165.60
Jeez, I just paid 170 pounds for a belt from the dealer, that's $289!!!!!!!
We get ripped of soooo bad over here. :sad:
Anyone seen an offset pulley for a 240 wheel advertised yet?