Just got my bike off the dyno & have lost 18hp!
3 weeks ago with an SE pipe, stage 1 download & topless she pulled 110.2 & 76.7ft/lbs. We then fitted a 240 wheel kit, BUB cone exhaust & a PC111 expecting to gain another 3 to 5 hp.

What we got was 92.2hp & 70.2ft/lbs!!!

We spent hours running the bike on a dynojet rig, the guy with the rig is a much respected road race tuner & dynojet agent & I have been an amatuer tuner & bike builder for 30 years. So you can assume we tried every configuration of the obvious; belt tension, tyre pressure, suspension etc.

No luck, we called dynojet who told us that they had seen large power losses with wide tyres due to tyre construction & contact area with the roller.

I find this hard to believe, but have no other explanation. The bike runs really sweet & I've just hammered it up my favourite hill & it feels really powerfull.

So if anyone has any valid opinion on the width & construction of the tyre causing such a problem, please let me know.

If it is true, does anyone want to buy a wide wheel kit!

Paul.

Just got my bike off the dyno & have lost 18hp!
3 weeks ago with an SE pipe, stage 1 download & topless she pulled 110.2 & 76.7ft/lbs. We then fitted a 240 wheel kit, BUB cone exhaust & a PC111 expecting to gain another 3 to 5 hp.

What we got was 92.2hp & 70.2ft/lbs!!!

We spent hours running the bike on a dynojet rig, the guy with the rig is a much respected road race tuner & dynojet agent & I have been an amatuer tuner & bike builder for 30 years. So you can assume we tried every configuration of the obvious; belt tension, tyre pressure, suspension etc.

No luck, we called dynojet who told us that they had seen large power losses with wide tyres due to tyre construction & contact area with the roller.

I find this hard to believe, but have no other explanation. The bike runs really sweet & I've just hammered it up my favourite hill & it feels really powerfull.

So if anyone has any valid opinion on the width & construction of the tyre causing such a problem, please let me know.

If it is true, does anyone want to buy a wide wheel kit!

Paul.


It's the Bubs bub! That is the standard result with Bubs or Sampson's. They are huge power robbers.


John

Paul I would like to tell you it's your wide wheel kit and buy it cheap but what John says is typical of the Bub pipe.

Max

Was it on the exact same dyno ?
Different dyno produce different results!
Even the same type dyno in different locations.
Even different users can vary output.(some) :soapbox:
BobT

We Tune A Lot Of Drag Bikes With 25 Inch Tires
On The Dyno Jet 250 With Out Any Problems
Other Than To Much Power At Once Smokes
Them. It Is Not Your Wide Tire Kit!

BUB pipes are rare over here so they have no reputation, I did have to panel beat the damn thing to get it to fit though!
Are these pipes a well known piece of crap over there? On the face of it, in comparison to the SE pipe it looks like it would breathe freely, even though the BUB pipes are a different lengths.
Suppose I'd better put the SE back on, disconnect the PC & see what it reads. I hope you guy's are right 'cos the wheels sure look sweet.
Thanks,
Paul.

We Tune A Lot Of Drag Bikes With 25 Inch Tires
On The Dyno Jet 250 With Out Any Problems
Other Than To Much Power At Once Smokes
Them. It Is Not Your Wide Tire Kit!
Thanks Rick, that gives me confidence, I'll try the SE again.
Paul.

BUB pipes are rare over here so they have no reputation, I did have to panel beat the damn thing to get it to fit though!
Are these pipes a well known piece of crap over there? On the face of it, in comparison to the SE pipe it looks like it would breathe freely, even though the BUB pipes are a different lengths.
Suppose I'd better put the SE back on, disconnect the PC & see what it reads. I hope you guy's are right 'cos the wheels sure look sweet.
Thanks,
Paul.

Paul, it's the pipes, no doubt about it! And yes they have a deserved reputation for being crap. You can still use the PCIIIr as there is a map for your set-up, plus some dyno time can squeeze out a couple of extra ponies.


John

Ditch the Bub's

It's probably the bubs but the wheel/tire package can also rob HP if the combination weighs more than the stock setup. You're measuring rear wheel hp using an inertial dyno. It measures the amount of energy needed to accelerate a known mass, the roller. If you add more mass to the package then the engine has to accelerate the wheel/tire combo in addition to the roller. It isn't going to give you an 18 hp loss, more likely 2 or 3 hp. The again, if you have forged wheels then the combination of the lighter wheel and the heavier tire should cancel out.

Put the SE's back on, remove the PCIII and take a baseline to see exactly how much power the 250 is robbing. That will tell you what the Bubs did. When you're dealing with unknown upgrades you need to change one thing at a time, but you knew that ;)

BTW, it's the Bubs, they're crap :yak:

Thanks for all the input guy's, I think you are right, only the pipe could make this much difference. I'm gonna put the SE back on in the morning & see what the output is.
If it is the BUB am I allowed to lynch them, horse theft is a hanging offence over there isn't it?
I will report back.
Paul.

Only in Texas... :laugh:


Thanks for all the input guy's, I think you are right, only the pipe could make this much difference. I'm gonna put the SE back on in the morning & see what the output is.
If it is the BUB am I allowed to lynch them, horse theft is a hanging offence over there isn't it?
I will report back.
Paul.

Excellent, will George W do it personally & can I watch?
Took her out on the freeway last night & nailed it, she goes flat at about 7 grand where previously I used to get shot from a cannon when she came on cam.
Slept on it & decided what to do, gonna refit the SE just to check & then we will make a pipe that works.
I have some shots of Kaz's bike, does anyone else have any pics of pipes that work so I can get an idea of a starting point for length & diameter?
Also whats the message on 2 into 1 as opposed to twin pipes?
If you can help my mail address is Ppaulvrod@aol.com
Thanx all,
Paul.

Paul,
Relax my Friend!
I have made 190+ with my Rick's 240 Setup on. So No !It's those Sorry A$$ Pipes! :chair: Try any of the Top 3 2 into 1 Pipes- 1st.TT, 2nd.ST, 3rd.JM.If Your Tuner is as Good as you say get a HD Race Tuner and really TUNE Your Bike! :thumb:

Can you flame the Bubs? Hell yeah!
Can I help? Plis? Huh?

Kaz we here in the tropics may be trying the JM vs ST on a same dyno, both stock bikes. I'll offer him some $$ just to have him dyno mine then put the ST on mine then dyno again, see what happens, if diff of 1hp either way I'll keep the JM for looks but if much more diff on my disadvantage I'll switch. Guy still needs some convincing. I don't get it they're just POS metal pieces you put on and take off see what happens. So possesive about material $hit. We could do it the other way around I don't care. Just a fricking motorcycle. What I know for sure is I'm really sorry for african paul's results.

So Bubs for V-Rod :chair: :spank: and :alien: you! :broke: An 18hp loss is just insane. Is that really typical? I mean the huge amount lost.

While they work good on the traditional V-Twins such as the Evolution motors and the Twin Cam's, the Bub's, from all I have read (I am in the market for a VRSCA...leaving to check out a new 03 for $15,300 US in a minute) they are hindering V-Rod performance. i heard that they sound great, and in my opinion look sweet too, but they are killing the performance. I think H-D and Porsche already did a nice job on the motor to get the numbes they get stock so maybe some real hard earned $$$ aside from the usual Harley-Tax (Air cleaner/pipes/download), is the only real way to gain some HP.

I personally cannot afford to dyno every other week so personally, I will likely go with a similar setup to your original with the 16ga SE's, prolly the race tuner (maybe that or the SE stage 1 download), and a lid mod like Ketsugo uses. When i get my V-Rod, it will be my daily rider, my chopper, and my tourer all in one since my income only allows for one bike at a time.

Later,
Gary

PS

It's amazing how popular this bike is over sea's and the luke warm "general Harley Crowd" reaction to this bike. I think it is the coolest looking and most attractive bike any manufacturer has made in a long time! It's the bike I wish they made 5 yrs ago when I got my old Sportster. Then again, wherever I have seen the V-rod parked, even next to the choppers, the VROD seems to get equal or more time from passers by. Just a sweet bike all around...stock or heavily customized.

Hello my colonial buddies,
Guess what, re-fitted the SE this morning, stuck it on the roller & hey presto! all my power back!
The exact drop was from 110.2 to 92.2!!!
When I was looking to buy the BUB they were all over me like a rash, when it didn't fit & I e-mailed them for advice they totally ignored me. Now I find that their pipe is the peice of crap it looked to be when I took it out of the box, I could weld better with a zippo!
'Every ounce of power the vrod can deliver' their ad says, my arse!!!

Now I'm gonna send them the dyno print outs & demand my money back, it aint right taking advantage of a poor deluded limey.

I am a bulldog & they will feel my bite!

Feel much better now.

Please tell me what TT, ST & JM stand for.

Thanks for listening,

Paul.

Paul,
I never would have guessed the pipes were the problem. ;)


John

Paul,
I never would have guessed the pipes were the problem. ;)


John


Punk!! :laugh:

TT Turbo tecs ST super traps JM Joker machine? If i'm wrong someone will correct me!

You are absolutely right!

I still don't know what IMHO, LOL, and BTW mean :laugh: .

I'm very sorry for the BUB a$$holes. Let's not stop flaming themJM, ever! Get one of the three belowJM. Just my opinionJM so look aroundJM. Hope this helpsJM. :laugh:

The TT are said to be the best power producers by several but only Kaz has them here, he has tried everything and he is reliable, most was done on a modified motorcycle though. He has also told us they sound great. I would rank them third in looks. No heat shields.

The ST seem to be the proven power king on a mostly stock V-Rod. There is evidence to that effect on side by side comparisons that did not include TT or JM exhaust. I think they look better than the TT. If you get a Power Commander there are starter maps available for download.

The JM I have are actually pretty cool. Lots of power. Most of all so very smooth. I think that not having heard the TT mine certainly sound better than the ST and I think also look much better also. If the TT are louder then beware cause the JM give me tinnitus if I use the little dicky helmet. I always wear a full face. I'm trying to build a custom map for them. So far it's running better than after last dyno session. No heat shields but those are like saddlebags and windshields. Added weight :2cents: .

You'll see there are many different opinions. It all depends on your style. If you go with any of the three above you'll be just fine in the power dept. I would rather see people getting something besides ST which are more commonplace. If I were just selfish it would be the other way around. I don't know about the TT's but I'd also like to see more people with my setup just because they'll be glad they did. Before I gave them some elbow grease I was really worried. After I gave them the first polishing they went back to chrome looking. When very hot they'll turn a bit yellow hue but mirror like, so very cool I believe.

The only way I see me switching is if others were so much powerful and this seems very improbable, one or two more hp will not be woth the switch, not because of the money, I just really like'em. Only one person here can help this now and it's Vinny upgrading from ST to TT on same bike. I gotta see that one :lick: cause he's smart too and will make the most of them.

When I'm through with mine I'm flying over to kick some TT buttJM ;) :diablo: . :hitfan:
Except for Kaz where the plutonium will come in handy.

You'll Need It Brother! :diablo:

eduarprmd....... If you read Paul's last post I answered his question. I been reading your quest for HP. I started with a set of $50.00 ebay stock pipes modded them myself installed the pcr3 down loaded the -20 map and 114.7 HP its easy with the right parts and a little home work.

:stooge:

VrodG said it the right way. It's like a quest but to experiment really. I'm always trying to see why yes and why not. I could already have my much imagined V-Rod. I don't care for that. Motorcycles are rather cheap (no huge money) devices compared to other forms of motor'sports', that's not the problem. They are just THE best kind, regardless of cost.

What is it? Topless, Race Tuner, TurboTecs, Two conic filters instead of the usual, 58mm TB's, I'd use Zippers "streetable" cams, Zippers or Steve's big bore kit with Dyer's rods, 10 plate clutch, those wires supposed to give you 1hp, different plugs, and even if fugly a turbo cause I've done nitrous and hate it in the street, it's like another hardon but she left :mad: . There's other stuff I do not care much about except brakes which I already got because of the importance in fun and in safety. I could do all that.

What? Get the phone and call saying I'm Mr Dickinson Fittipaldy :lick: and get me the store? Live without it because of a damn BB install? I've seen it many times and still looks stupid on the outside so I'm not going to be that guy, I'm riding mine until I break it, maybe soon, then I HAVE to leave it, then I'll do something more radical. Get what Kaz says because I trust him? And I do, but no. V-Mods? Hell no, and all over again, hell no. It's been tested until I already know what people are going to say before they do. I'd rather spend money and time having fun with mineJM ;) even if it means buying two or three different brand exhaustsJM to try for myself. Anything as long as I do not leave it there for longJM. I need another VRSCA V-Rod for that. Black of course noJM, something else, TT or ST maybe. Being a test mule for Terry Components unit? That would be fun, like John is doing. I'm doing it with the JM and fun it is. V-Mod is going to test them or so they say.

I'll race whoevers gzillion hp anytime, dynos can mislead and I have tiny 110.9hp :rolleyes: on a proflow, unless I tell you my dynojet numbers :rolleyes: , then you don't wanna race :tmbsdow: . Just for fun :thumb: . Will I hurt if I loose and I won't? No. But I WILL get the beers as promised. Maybe before we race, loosen up some. I don't need any.

Paul, just get something that looks good for your bike and adds hp. Want the easy way? Get a PCIII and whatever has maps for it. :slap:

:blahblah:

Paul, everyone has a different opinion about what works for them. If you have your stock pipes you should remove the inner baffle yourself, and do another run on the dyno and I think you will surprise yourself and others. Until proven wrong, the best bang for buck is: stock pipes with the inner baffle removed, se air cleaner, pc3 and topless. As mentioned above, 114-115 easy hp and I got 84 tq. Total investment for me was $100 for pc3 and se air cleaner, which actually pays for itself as you just clean them instead of replacing.
Just my .02

Thanks for all the input.
I had a look at the pipes on the net. I'm sure the ST works they have a good rep over here, but I don't like the fat can look & it seems a bit expensive for a half system. The TT & the JM are very similar designs so there can't be a lot in it for road use. I've decided to try the JM 'cos stainless is good for the UK weather & I ride every day. The other factor was that the JM appears to be slightly upswept & should give better ground clearance. My SE is ground right through the outer skin already so a bit more lean angle will suit me fine.
Should take about 2 weeks to get the pipe & tune it in, I will definitely post the results.
Paul. :notworth:

Hi Derek, do you have any instruction on how to remove the inner baffle from the stock pipes? I would like to make it a project of mine. Also, where can I find a SE air cleaner, what is a PC3, and can I go to a dealer for a dyno run?

Thanks in advance

Thanks for all the input.
I had a look at the pipes on the net. I'm sure the ST works they have a good rep over here, but I don't like the fat can look & it seems a bit expensive for a half system. The TT & the JM are very similar designs so there can't be a lot in it for road use. I've decided to try the JM 'cos stainless is good for the UK weather & I ride every day. The other factor was that the JM appears to be slightly upswept & should give better ground clearance. My SE is ground right through the outer skin already so a bit more lean angle will suit me fine.
Should take about 2 weeks to get the pipe & tune it in, I will definitely post the results.
Paul. :notworth:

BTW - Paul, What is all that crap on your motor in your avatar?!

Trott,
give me a call at 830 3722497. I will walk you through it.

BTW - Paul, What is all that crap on your motor in your avatar?!
Hi,
Blood, my own.
We use it a lot here in the UK to stop corrosion.
Paul. :rofl:

Did ya do a Fabio"Hit a Duck with your head"? :eek:

Did ya do a Fabio"Hit a Duck with your head"? :eek:
Naah, my flugal valve was leaking in those damn BUB's, 18 horses bled to death that night.
Paul. :rofl:

Derek.... mind if you get 2 phone calls???

Thanks
Greg

P.S. sounds like its a good do-it-yourself topic.

No worries Greg.
Cheers Derek

I still don't know what IMHO, LOL, and BTW mean :laugh: .

Eduardo, not sure if you were kidding or not, but:

IMHO= In My Honest Opinion
LOL= Lots of Laughs
BTW= By The Way

Have a good one...

-Bry

Eduardo, not sure if you were kidding or not, but:

IMHO= In My Honest Opinion
LOL= Lots of Laughs
BTW= By The Way

Have a good one...

-Bry
Or

LOL = Laugh Out Loud ;)

Or

LOL = Laugh Out Loud ;)

Yep, your right. Thanks! :thumb:

-Bry

And IRL= in real life
LMAO =laughing my a$$ off
ROFLMAO =rolling on floor etcetc etc.
STFU= Shut the &*^$ up

you will get the hang of it..

Know when My 02 (PC3 w/recommended map, V-Mods, SE Air) was dyno'd just after an 03 with Samsons, the diff was I had 16HP+ and 6 ftlb+, so 18 doesn't sound out of the question (his Samson's at least had baffles).

Anyone getting the JM will probably like.
My right ear hurts form riding with the dicky helmet today.

My friend just installed the ST's a couple of days ago. But today I got to actually ride it. I came over and he just handed me the keys :thumb: . As part of the trial and error thing I'm with the unchanged map for the stock V-Rod with the 16ga (V&H).

No racin today :sad: but mine is definitely much faster at this point in time, that is an easy and confident assesment, piece of a fricking cake right on assesment. Took it to a close by long stretch of asphalt often raced on so I know the place and how things should come at you.

I have the air filter and his does not. I'm topless and his is not. I had the SE flash, now better with the RT but shitty map no tune, unmodified for several days now so seat of the pants for this setup dialed in me already, but he has all stock EFI software. He has the end cap on with I don't know how many disks that some guys at US mainland tuning center reccomended. HM people or something like that, I don't really know but Jesus does it still sound weird to me. To him also, as he admitted himself with the face when I was leaving, "that one sounds better" (referring to the JM, in spanish).

It may need all that and maybe his will become faster than mine, right now a long way, mine was faster without the RT as well. We will see, literally. I sure wish his new bike is faster than hell with what he will do to it cause mine sure has the MF devil in her :diablo: .

I had them side by side, swapped them several times and I still cannot get comfortable with the looks but I'll say again if these ST things turn out to give 3-4hp more I may give them a try. I handed him MY keys and told him to please let satan loose :twisted: , give it some heat but he didn't wanna :tmbsdow: . I thought he needed the 28t and stupid me it is an 04 :laugh: .

I keep telling him to run it like Kaz says and I'll convince him. Get the most info possible with the best reccs. He said he tried it open and seemed less powerful :confused: . All this uncertainties and he has a dyno on his backyard. He did not even test a baseline, just put them on. No time, customers motorcycles first was the excuse :rolleyes: .

Just no Techlusion :yak: or oxygenated race gas :barf: . He's waiting on the RT and the Sunday thing may become a reality pretty soon.

Eddie,
He's a Moron if he think it makes more power with them on!How long has he been doing this? :rolleyes: No Baseline! :tmbsdow: I think you need to box up your bike and come spend a few days down here and I'll get you on Track! :bash:

No, no! This is like one of those redneck jokes :sinister: . He may be a moron if he has a dyno and does not do a baseline first. He may be a moron if you have a dyno and do not strap it on and do some testing with a "tuneable exhaust". For all I know anyone buying an orange colored V-Rod may be a moron. Better still you may be a moron if you are Willie G and allow this orange POS to actually happen. Where's the pride? NY Mike can do whatever to the V-Rod because he paid for it but the MoCo :2cents: . I keep on learning things :hmm: . JC!

Maybe I cannot discern well just because mine is louder, maybe the low handlebar makes it somehow feel faster, but no, it is noticeably slower. I can chew gum and walk at the same time without getting dizzy or confused. He's used to sluggish HD's and he got me 9hp just two days ago on my crappy Sportster.

I want to tinker with it myself, not just have this or any other mechanic F'k it up at least until I'm done with the software. I do not want it dyno tuned until I have exhausted my patience or break it, then a big bore. I guess I can have it dyno tuned and still tinker with it but it's like when someone tells you the movie before you see it. Except XXX movies where you just know she did everyone :laugh: .

I'm not allowing any pea brain nobody from nowhere here or there tell me what to do with it if he will not discuss it with me respectfuly, no lies. I'd rather keep my 110hp and my man's pride intact. Charge me whatever but do not be bossing me around with any Dick's dyno even if he's called free willy, noble or not.

I think the guy is just totally uninformed about the V-Rod. Unlike us of course, we know everything :rolleyes: ! My name is Tony Montana and I'm king of the world ;) . Tony, he's better than Batman, said "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie", THAT is for the wife if you're so inclined. Not me, I'm really going to try if possible to make this 04 with ST's fast as possible if he allows some reccs from this forum. THE BEST! You F'k with us you F'kng with the best. He's a moron if he does not. I don't think he is but really don't care enough to worry. He got the sound right. I just care that he seems like a honest and responsible person with work, family AND has a dyno :mrgr: .

AfricanPaul will have one of the best looking bikes on this site, that's for sure.

:hyper:

No, no! This is like one of those redneck jokes :sinister: . He may be a moron if he has a dyno and does not do a baseline first. He may be a moron if you have a dyno and do not strap it on and do some testing with a "tuneable exhaust". For all I know anyone buying an orange colored V-Rod may be a moron. Better still you may be a moron if you are Willie G and allow this orange POS to actually happen. Where's the pride? NY Mike can do whatever to the V-Rod because he paid for it but the MoCo :2cents: . I keep on learning things :hmm: . JC!

Maybe I cannot discern well just because mine is louder, maybe the low handlebar makes it somehow feel faster, but no, it is noticeably slower. I can chew gum and walk at the same time without getting dizzy or confused. He's used to sluggish HD's and he got me 9hp just two days ago on my crappy Sportster.

I want to tinker with it myself, not just have this or any other mechanic F'k it up at least until I'm done with the software. I do not want it dyno tuned until I have exhausted my patience or break it, then a big bore. I guess I can have it dyno tuned and still tinker with it but it's like when someone tells you the movie before you see it. Except XXX movies where you just know she did everyone :laugh: .

I'm not allowing any pea brain nobody from nowhere here or there tell me what to do with it if he will not discuss it with me respectfuly, no lies. I'd rather keep my 110hp and my man's pride intact. Charge me whatever but do not be bossing me around with any Dick's dyno even if he's called free willy, noble or not.

I think the guy is just totally uninformed about the V-Rod. Unlike us of course, we know everything :rolleyes: ! My name is Tony Montana and I'm king of the world ;) . Tony, he's better than Batman, said "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie", THAT is for the wife if you're so inclined. Not me, I'm really going to try if possible to make this 04 with ST's fast as possible if he allows some reccs from this forum. THE BEST! You F'k with us you F'kng with the best. He's a moron if he does not. I don't think he is but really don't care enough to worry. He got the sound right. I just care that he seems like a honest and responsible person with work, family AND has a dyno :mrgr: .

AfricanPaul will have one of the best looking bikes on this site, that's for sure.

:hyper:

Why thank you kind Sir!
Tell you what ladies, we got a saying here in God's country; 'when the start flag drops, the bullshit stops'.
I can't wait to get home at night to see what you guy's come up with next, excellent stuff!
Cheers,
Paul. :diablo: :rofl:

This is so cool. Isn't it :sinister: ?
I have like 10 people to see at the office today, and 23 inpatient, half in ICU and can't get away from reading the posts. Now I'm feeling irresponsible so see ya! Back to work :sad: . I really really do not like office days :yak: .

... Back to work :sad: . I really really do not like office days :yak: .

Dam, 'work' always gets in the way! :bash: :rofl: :laugh:

This is so cool. Isn't it :sinister: ?
I have like 10 people to see at the office today, and 23 inpatient, half in ICU and can't get away from reading the posts. Now I'm feeling irresponsible so see ya! Back to work :sad: . I really really do not like office days :yak: .
Speakin of the office I just got a major promotion today :thumb: so I'm gonna treat myself big time, & while I'm at it I will do every one a favour by clearing the pipe (exhaust pipe that is!) induced mist around the TT v JM issue.
I ordered the JM which will arrive in 5 weeks, why so long I dunno :sad: they must be makin them to order, anyway nice, helpful people.

Now get this, I ordered the TT from a guy called Johnny Turbo out in the desert somewheres, again good guy, this will be shipped in 7 days. :laugh:

I will create fuel maps for both ( or if anyone has one? hint, hint), use the stainless pipe for the street (our weather is crap) & use whichever one gives the best result when I compete in the European Super Twins comp. later this year. :ride:

Eduardo, I've been trying to send you some pics of my bike but they keep coming back to me, is your mailbox full?

What else could it be, looking at the size of his mails ;)

Paul,
Thats Great!Did you tell'm"Turbo Tec USA" I referd ya for a Super Kaz Discount! :thumb:

Paul,
Thats Great!Did you tell'm"Turbo Tec USA" I referd ya for a Super Kaz Discount! :thumb:
Thanx Kaz, I didn't but I will. :)

This be short!
All right! Envy :mrgr: .
Cool! Can't do if no tuner! I don't have one.
Dev a map with same guy same dyno same procedure two diff pipes. Science.
Swear on mom if very good diff with TT will try myself but still need s'more pics. Maybe pics of your's with both.

If it is the BUB am I allowed to lynch them, horse theft is a hanging offence over there isn't it?
I will report back.
Paul.
HEY! Watch it with the horse comments!!!! :mrgr:

Samsons sound great but suck the life out of your bike
16 gauge double barrel aren't much more than stock and you feed the machine
What do you guys / gals think about D & D?

Hey Scott,
I just got a set of slightly used D&D slip ons. I do really like them a lot, but for the full retail price you could get a nice 2-1. The slip ons have a great sound, open up the rear of the bike some, and look good. A great option if you can find a deal, but $469 for slip ons???? The Cary Faas 2-1 is the same price, and for just a bit, you could hook up with Kazs group buy on Turbo tecs. Heck Super trapps are pnly 100 more. I got mine for $250, which was worth it.

scottcritt get Turbo Tecs if power is what you want. I think better overall for the street are JM and ST. We need more people with TT, D&D, or JM for feedback.

Greg, you are going to have to change the "'03 stock, stock, stock" signature.