I have had a stalling problem with my rod since day1.Right off idle.Hot or cold.I had the recall done the other day and it did not cure the problem.Like I said I fired the dealer I was using for my service work.This morning on the way to the new dealer the bike stalled at take-off from a light and would not restart.The battery was too weak to spin it fast enough.I had the bike towed to the new dealer and the charging system was checked.NPF.Battery was the culprit.New battery and 200 tire were installed.As I was describing my previous repairs and displeasure with the other dealer the SM suggested that the battery could have been causing my stalling due to a bad internal connection.A resistance problem.Riding in alot of stop&go traffic home it did not stall once.Also when scanned there were no codes,history or current.I've seen batterys in cars cause problems with ECMs.Could this be true with my problem?




Elrod on the V-Rod :hmm:

In theory a bad battery could pull the voltage down below 12 volts even with the bike running and cause the ECM to shut down or cause reduced fuel pressure, etc, etc.... Without a voltage meter on the bike it's a guess unless the bike never stalls agains ;)

The rod fired up immiediatly this morning,no tender on the battery at all.I 'm going cruizing in a while.I was also told that the fuel flange replacement is not a true recall and that it is more for a power loss(engine shut-down)at heavy accel.before the rev limiter.Other info from harley reads for a smoother idle and enhanced performance.Not a saftey issue.Most owners say that it cures stalling.




Elrod on the V-Rod

ElrodontheV-Rod I truthfully haven't heard of the fuel flange fixing anything more then the at speed drivability issue around 5,000 rpm. Your dealer is correct that a poor battery can cause a stalling condition on any electronic ignition system that uses a PCM. If system voltage drops below 8.6 volts for just a second then the system simply shuts down. It is typical to see bad battery's test in the 10 volt range if they have a cell problem so with lights and any other accessories running it is not hard with a bad battery to surge the system low for a second.

I will go one step further on the idle issue with the fuel flange. I did an injector cleaning on my bike about a month ago and found that the bike would idle fine with the pressure as low as 30psi on my charge cylinder. Normal pressure for the system is 55-62psi.

Max

I have ridden about 150 miles since the new battery.Today I tried every chance I got to snap the throttle off idle.No stalling so far.It fires up instantly.Never did that before :cool:



Elrod on the V-Rod

FYI--My battery was dead on arrival from the dealer. I bought the bike out of town and trailored it home. When I got there the battery was dead. :bash:

After I charged it up over night everything worked fine--never any stalling though

I had the same problem MrBill. I was forced to trailer it home from the dealer, and when I got it home and fired it up, nothing happened. I had to trickle charge it overnight, and then it started up fine the next day. I haven't had a problem with the battery or starting since (and I haven't put any sort of charger on it), so I'm guessing it was just sitting around for months before I bought it. (2003 that I bought in November).

I have an 03 V-Rod with 3400 miles on it. I purchased it last May and began to notice that while approaching a stop the RPM's would drop and sometimes the bike would stall. The frequency in which this happened increased so while the bike was in the dealer for the 1000 mile service I spoke to the service manager. He claimed this was normal and to not blip the throttle during downshifts while coming to a stop. As I'm rolling to a stop, if I just pull in the clutch the bike will usually drop RPM's to below 1000 and just stall while I'm sitting at the light. If I keep the RPM's up to around 1500 - 2000 manually with the clutch in as I'm rolling to a stop the bike will not stall. Once stopped however if I let the bike idle at ~1000 RPM 8 of of 10 times it will stall. Needless to say, this is very annoying. I've never had a problem with the bike starting, the battery seems to be strong although I've never checked it on a voltmeter. Any help would be appreciated.

DMF stalling is not normal no matter what you do short of letting the clutch out and killing the engine. If you could supply us with any modifications you are running, exhaust intake flashes etc.

Max

I picked up my bike from my nearest dealer last April it stalled twice on the way home. I phones them up and gave them both barrels and made sure my greivance was logged. They said to bring it back and they would put it through a diagnostic. I waited until the first 1000 mile service before I did take it back. It stalled several more times up until then. On my way to the service it stalled in first gear while doing a U turn. It chugged violently to a halt mid stream and I dropped the bike damaging the air cowl on the right side, the grip, wing mirror, exhaust, exhaust cover and pegs. On my arrival at the dealership I went balistic! They took the bike in and after three weeks waiting for parts they eventually got Harley to pay for all the damaged parts. I had to pay for the labour. After the diagnostic the dealer could find no reason for the stalling but replaced several parts including the carb, fuel injecter, chip set and OEM whatever that is. Since then the bike has not given me another problem. I can fully understand your annoyance. Don't let it rest, make a bloody nuisance of yourself and get them to get it sorted! Good luck :banghead:

I have about 325 miles since the new battery.It started immedietly this morn at 35 degrees.Cold idle is appr.1350,never did this before.It always stayed at 1100 cold or hot.Cold idle stays for about 3 minutes and gradually comes down.The damn thing has'nt missed a lick.I have'nt used the battery tender at all.I think I'm getting happy.




Elrod on the V-Rod :thumb:

DMF,
My wife and I, both have the same problem as you. :mad: Our dealer has told us the recall will fix the problem. Our batteries are both fully charged, so I really don't think that is the problem. They are picking both bikes up in a week or two, but with the weather we are having, we probably won't have any time to ride soon. I really hope it fixes the problem.
Doug

I've heard that the tank flange replacement cures stalling.Chopper Steve had a repair listed before the factory came out with this repair.It was a fitting that threaded in.My recall stated that there were no saftey issues and that is was for a smoother idle.The dealer told me that it was for an appr.5000 rpm engine cut off.I don't think Harley wants us to know what they are stabbing at.The open circuit or poor connection in my battery was unusual.I hope the repair cures your problem.We have paid alot for these bikes and harley needs to take more interest in satisfying us after the sale.
Good Luk



Elrod on the V-Rod

Max, The bike is stock except for the SE slip on's, SE air filter and the downlaoded chip which was all done at the dealer where the bike was purchased. Thank you all for your answers, any further input is apprcieated. Thank you.

Same here Max!

Now this is really reaching but have either of you with the slip ons and the filters ever had your flashes checked by another dealer? The reason I ask is that if by some mistake the flash was not done properly or forgotten during the install the stalling could result from a leaner mixture at low rpm.

Another thing to try.

If one of you that has the stalling wants to try something to see if it would help and then report back. For years IAC motors do a search when first powered up with key on after a battery discharge to find home position. So here is what I would ask one of you to try.

Disconnect your battery for 1 minute
Reconnect the battery with the key in the off position.
Turn the key to the run position and hit the run switch but do not start the engine.
Wait one full minute before you start the engine after turning the switch to the run position.

Make sure to record your idle rpm before you do the battery disconnect after running and warm. Then after you have done this compare to see if the base idle has increased. Make sure you disconnect the negative side also for safety.

Same problem with 2003, 2500K but problem since new. Second time at dealer. First time replace top head of one of the cylinders because of leaking coolant into the piston. This did not solve problem. Now second time at dealer and they are replacing the ECM. Lets see if that cures the problem. (motor also runs slightly rough at the 2,500 to 4,000 RPM).

Max, one thing I have definitely noticed since having the fuel flange recall done is that the bike runs at idle in 1st gear now and doesn't stall out. I'm able to do short-radius u-turns and figure 8's now with no or only a teeny bit of idle, whereas the bike (an '03) stalled and would not move without some throttle before. Big improvement to be able to putt along at low speed without having to futz with the clutch and throttle. This truly is new since I had the recall done right before winter stopped my riding.

I've had my recall done for the fuel flange, and I still get the low rev stall. It's happened 3 times now.
My tech seems to think the bike is a bit lean perhapse at low revs. As I have the Power Commander fitted, HD would be loath to try and sort it out,especially as it's such a rare occurence.
I'm looking forward to getting a personnal map for my bike when I can get to a dyno, as opposed to the one that I got of a mate. My bike runs strong and fuel ecconomy is fine (for a V Rod!), but just to ensure that there is no low rev problem.

Best wishes every one.

Ken.

Val I have run my bike on an external fuel cell through the pressure port and the bike will idle fine down to 35psi while the bike would never run at rpm at that pressure. When the flange leaks the pump can still supply 35psi even with the leak without a problem but it gets lean when the condition requires more pressure,the bike usually runs at 55psi. There is no way unless the line comes completely out that it could change your idle with just the change of a fuel flange. If it came completely out the bike would not run at all.

Every report I have read to date states that when the flange leaked that people experienced running problems at RPM like missing and no power and hard to start. If the flange leaks it is easy to tell, simply start the bike up and look into the tank, if you see a mist in the tank just below the cap then your flange is leaking. If you do not then a new flange will change nothing at all expect to prevent it from leaking in the future.

Max

I just picked up a silver/black new 03, three days ago. Stalled 6 or 7 times coming home, about 12 miles from Fremont HD. Next day stalled a couple of times, once while making a 10 mph left turn on a busy street with traffic approaching. Almost took me down as rear wheel just locked and as I was leaning somewhat, I was lucky between disengaging the clutch and catching my self with my foot.

Took to the dealer, said that flange recall was done, and proper download in place for screaming eagle exhaust. I axed about gasoline(production date of bike was 7/03) so they poured more gas into tank to dilute(did not drain old fuel). Only stalled twice today, so am hoping when fuel tank is empty that a full tank of fresh petrol will fix.

Scary thing for me is that on my Heritage I sometimes like to practice real tight circles(about 15 feet) and am always concerned what will happen if the motor should ever die on me while doing this. So far never has, but think that I will not be doing this on the Vrod just yet.

Also I am quite surprised at the vibration level from the motor at idle and at speed. I feel it throughout the bike say at 60 mph like wheel out of balance. Disengage clutch and all is well. Perhaps I am just accustomed to balance shaft motor in Heritage(03 model and it is dead smooth) so vibration in Vrod could be normal. Dealer mechanic says feels fine. Almost feels like my old Corvette(high horsepower) when I have fouled a plug or blown a valve spring and it is running on only 7 cylinders.

Other then this, I love the bike and think that once shakedown is down, I will be catching lightening bugs in my teeth.

sxrxrnr the vibration is not normal. Both of my rods are very smooth compared to most v-twins it just may be that you have some fuel fouled plugs from starting and never letting it warm up. I see if the dealer would at least check them for you and then drain the tank and put in some fresh mojo.

Max

Thanks Max. I have actually 2 mechanics and one salesman at the dealer sit on the bike and run the engine from idle to say 3000 rpm so they can check out the vibration. It is always there, but they said feels normal to them. I guess I am going to have to take a ride on another bike to see how it compares. It is far from your description of smooth and again always feels like a severe wheel balance or driveshaft situation on an auto. This again is at idle or crusing at any mph and vibration is particularily noticeable in hand grips. I have never seen this mentioned anywhere so am assuming that either is normal(no one is complaing), or something is amiss on mine and the fellows doing the checking for me have rubber mounted hands.

Bike seems to have plenty of power when cracking the throttle open(have not run beyond 3000 rpm because only 90 miles). Could it have good power and still have plugs partially fouled. Will plugs clean out as on an auto when you really stand on it under load at high rpm? I think I will just go out and pull the plugs and have a look.

Thanks again

Checking out this thread because I had mine stall on me twice, but it's been a while. Mine only stalled just after starting. And hasn't happened in almost 400 miles. It stalled when not under any load at all. Both times at the gas station after refueling (about 1/4 tank when I rolled in both times). Started it up, it idled, I was just about to pull in the clutch and put it in first, and it just stopped. But, like I said, it hasn't happened in a while, and I don't think it sounds like what's happened to some of you. I've never had a problem with it stalling in 1st gear doing slow speed maneuvers.

sxrxrnr - the bike shouldn't idle rough, or have excessive vibration. Mine is silky smooth. I don't notice any buzzyness at any RPM.

Mine has stalled after getting gas a couple of times (maybe 4 times) in the past 7000 miles. I also see the engine light come on for a couple of seconds, then go out, also after filling up. But it only stalled those 4 times in 70 fillups. I'm not losing too much sleep over it.

I did't read every post of this thread, so please forgive me if this reply doesn't bring any new insights.
My engine was stalling too, the dealer replaced the coil assembly (pos. 7, on page 33 of the parts catalogue) twice without permanent improvement and I figured out that the problem was caused by an electrical contact problem of the spring inside the rubber tube (pos. 6, coil boot) that is attached to the spark plug. After lenghthening the spring the problem never came back!
I posted this in another thread already assuming that other riders might have similar problems but nobody took it serious...
This is worth a try, check it!

Jan

Thank you to all who have given input on this problem that I am experiencing. I filled up the tank today and assume now that I have used or diluted all the old gas in the tank. As I left the service station and feeling pretty good about this, I had gone about one mile, and was decelerating in third, disengaged the clutch at about 30 mph to downshift to second, heard this pffffft noise, thought oh, oh, looked down and sure enough the tach was on zero rpm.

This to me is an extemely dangerous condition as I had noted in a previous post where the engine died in a left hand turn with approaching traffic.

The bike now has 130 miles and I will be taking it into the dealer tomorrow. The last 2 visits produced nothing as they could not recreate in the limited time that they spent test riding the bike. I am hoping that I can persuade them to do some in shop diagnostics with electronic equipment that I trust that they may have in their inventory of tools. My call to HD(they could provide no insight at all and would not allow me to speak to a tech, telling me that my dealer's personell would be the only ones that they could speak to) told me to leave any problem determination or repairs to my dealer and to take to any outside service would not be covered by warranty. They did say I would be welcome to take to another dealer however.

I am still concerned of what I believe is an severe and abnormal vibration that likely is related. But as previously noted by me regarding this, the dealer's employees feel that the bike feels normal to them. However what I have found from those on this forum who have commented on vibrations is that their should be none and that the engine should be very smooth at any speed. This is defintely not the case as it is felt thru the foot pegs, seat and hand grips at any speed, whether the bike is at rest or moving at any speed.

This could be normal, but stalling is not, and as Dr. Dean Edell is fond of saying "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras".

I will post any findings. Thank you again to all.

Jan that is very interesting information. Can I ask what was leading them to a coil, did you have a code setting or was it just the behavior when it stalled? Have you since checked both of your coils for this or only one coil?

Max

Jan that is very interesting information. Can I ask what was leading them to a coil, did you have a code setting or was it just the behavior when it stalled? Have you since checked both of your coils for this or only one coil?
Max

I recommended to my dealer to do this and they did it, after that it was ok for a little while. They replaced both coils and sent them to HD R&D for investigation, I was told later that this is the first time they had such a problem (I hear this reply three times a week) - they did not confirm that the coils were broken. It was clearly ignition failure, sometimes one cylinder did not fire. If you have a fuel problem then one would assume that both cylinder are affected simultaneously. Sometimes the idle was irregular too.
The symptoms were exactly the same as posted by the others in this thread.

When the problem happened for the third time I decided to screw the warranty and to investigate for myself.
This spring assembly inside the rubber hose is not very clever design...

Jan

Jan thats the first post I have read that would make sense about the stalling. Maybe we could get one of those with the stalling problem to take a look at there coils. Did you simply remove the spring and stretch it?

If your not a mechanic then the explanation for this would be that the coil cannot produce a double spark. If the first spark takes place above the plug as it has to bridge a gap between the coil and plug then the second spark would be very weak if any at all.

Max

Jan thats the first post I have read that would make sense about the stalling. Maybe we could get one of those with the stalling problem to take a look at there coils. Did you simply remove the spring and stretch it?
Max

Yes, that's all! It is a little bit difficult to remove and replace the spring, use a small hook (i.e. bended paper clip) with a string for this.

p.s. here is a link to my old thread:
http://www.v-rodforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2008

Jan

I took the bike again(for the third time) to complain of the stalling problem. As mentioned earlier I had now added fuel twice to no success. In fact it failed within 1 mile of the gas station yesterday after fueiling. I called the dealer this AM(Monday) and they said to bring it in. My wife followed me over with the idea of bringing me home. I gave the Service Manager a printout of this string on stalling. The impression that I got was about the same as when I visit my Doctor and give him a copy of the latest internet research that I have found on the malady for which I am visiting him, in other words, internet "claptrap". and I do not believe that was even read. I then recited possible plug problems, possible coils, possible plug/coil wire, possible loose fitting somewhere as reported in this string. What could a 63 year old rider with less then 2 years riding experience tell them anyway, 40 years of auto racing experience notwithstanding, not to mention the numerous years of bike riding experience of those who have responded to my problem on this forum

I was then told that I could be scheduled for an analyses of my problem on April 21st as business was good and this was the best that they could do. I told them that I was told to bring in today. The response was that this was just to schedule an appointment if they felt that my stalling problem required further research. I guess some stalling problems do not require further research. They then suggested that as the bike was brand new(less then 10 days old and the problem was reported the day after purchasing as it had failed a number of times going home this first day) that I would be given special consideration and perhaps if I left it, they would "squeeze" it in before the 21st. I elected not to leave it in their hands for a suntan for the next few weeks and told them to call me if something opened up sooner. I then rode the bike back home with my wife following me. It stalled twice on the way home.

I will call the other Silicon Valley area dealer tomorrow to find if perhaps their business is not so good that I can get in for a warranty repair before 4 weeks from now. I have already been informed by HD that to take to a non HD dealer for repairs or analyses will not be covered by warranty. Perhaps they would like to see another bike rider go down on this problem as noted earlier in this thread.

I hope that I am not sounding too cynical but I am getting quite frustrated. My wife purchased a new car recently(a small Audi 4 door sedan) that had a minor problem(a dent in the trunk lid) from the factory or shipping. They bent over backwards to accomodate her and repair in a timely manner, and it was not even a life threatening situation. The dealer came to her place of employment, picked up the car, had it repaired while she was at work, and returned it in time for her to take it home that nite. Probably 6 hours of labor to repair. I suspect that the problem on this bike would take one competent mechanic 1 to 2 hours to analyze and repair.

Ahh, supply and demand at its finest! My dealer said I would need to leave my bike with them for 4 to 5 weeks for the 1000 mile service. Are they crazy! No, they just dont need me. I was very happy with the sale transaction, but follow on customer service at HD is really bad. Can you imagine a car dealer telling you that? Im driving 60 miles to another dealer that does actual appointments.
Sorry, I digress...

:soapbox:

Sxrxrnr
Unfortunately, it sounds as though the folks at that dealership could use some training in customer relations. If I were you, I'd contact the other dealership in your area and see what kind of response you receive. In the mean time, I'd be drafting a written account of your experiences and prepare
forwarding it to the HD Corparate office. Also, I'd be looking into California consumer protection laws regarding "lemons" and the "72 hour rule". There's nothing like a consumer requesting their money back to attract the attention of senior management.
Chip

Max,
Is this something ( what Jan said to do ) that anyone could do with a little help? I would like to try this out.

I called and spoke to Shawn at HD Corporate Customer Service. Told him of the problems that I have with stalling and that I felt was an extreme safety issue and that I had been to the dealer 3 times on this. Told him that my dealer where I purchased bike new last week had told me that earliest date for an appointment to look into it was April 26th.

Shawn said that dealers are independant of HD and can run their businesses anyway they see fit and HD has no control over them and their business methods. Seems HD has a great system working for them. They can offer a warranty to entice one to purchase their product, but they are not responsible for the behavior of the dealers that they say will honor it. Wonder why Ford and GM have not thought of this?

He suggested that I find another HD shop(I have already considered this) but under NO circumstances could I take to a non-HD shop and expect warranty coverage for the failure of their product to perform as advertised. I guess I missed this part in all the marketing information that HD dispenses when selling their products or their extended warranty. If the product fails and you wish to get back on the road in a timely manner(say less then one month) then you are out of luck.

He said that if I were concerned about my personal safety because of a stalling incident, that I should park the bike and await the appointment that is available to me at my HD dealer some 4 weeks from now. Now this is exactly what I expected to do(leave it parked in my garage for 4 weeks in the springtime) when my dealer insisted on a cashiers check for 20,000.00 for the bike(no personal checks accepted). I believe I am getting a glimmer of why this policy.

Perhaps we need a string or section devoted soley to warranty coverage issues and what resolutions were made.

Doug I think that most would be capable of tackling the coil spring stretch. The rear coil would be very easy while the front coil would require removal of the air box cover to gain access to it. When you take a coil off you can look into the tip that plugs onto the spark plug and the spring is located up inside that boot.


sxrxrnr, If I were in your position I would be on my way down to the dealer to as to talk to the GM at the dealer about putting me on another bike or fixing the one he sold me right away. Expressing extreme displeasure to many of the GM's of these dealerships will often get immediate service.

Max

I just called and made an appointment with San Jose Harley(the other Silicon Valley area dealer) for April 14th. Better then April 26th I guess. I will pick up a service manual on the Vrod and have a look see at the coil/wire situation and some of the other recommendations made on this forum. I need the manual anyway as noted earlier, I hope never to need to use my local dealer for anything except the most dire of circumstances. At least when I do maintenance work, I will know if it has been done or not and if it is done correctly and save 90 bucks per hour. I can sit in my garage and change oil all day for that.

Pleased with myself that I did not spend the extra 1,000.00 plus for the extended warranty as even the included one apparently does not allow any support or flexibility to allow me to use a third party shop take care of my bike in a timely manner, when the dealer's business is "too" good to take care of their customers.

I guess there are advantages to living in an area with 1/10th the population and 5 times the number of dealers. My dealer can't get away with a 20 day lead for repair of essentially a "down bike", especially one that was just sold. They know that I'll take it to one of the other 5 that are within 50 miles TOMORROW!

Forget about the people on the other end of the customer support line, INSIST on speaking with the HD area manager for the bay area. He's the only one that can have any influence on the dealer. The line about HD not having any say in the business practices of the dealers is BS. They control the way the dealers do business down to the floor space they allocate to t-shirts!!!!!

See my post "My V-rod experience so far", not happy with customer service from same dealer.

You know I just thought of something the saleman said to me about the customer survey that I would be recieving from HD.......he saud it would be appreciated if I would give them all excellant as that helps to determine the # of bikes that HD allocates to them....and by doing that I would be helping to ensure that the next time I wanted to buy a bike that there would be a larger selection...... :yak:

I guess there might be a reason they need to pump up their surveys!

:angeldev: Saleen:

This is exactly what my saleman told me. He suggested that if I had any reason not to give them a perfect score when I filled out the survey, to give them a call before I expressed any less than that. Now that I find it takes 4 weeks to make an appointment to take a look at a dangerous stalling defect that I reported the day after taking delivery I wonder where this leaves them on my satisfaction index? Perhaps they will not be getting all their hoped for bikes in the next allocation. I am not much concerned that they will not have sufficient inventory to satisfy my next HD purchase.

Max: Thank you very much for the help you gave me. I found the information that you sent of great interest and value.

Same here, Bill. You might consider insisting that dealer replace that battery even though you charged it and it seems to be holding. Once a battery has gone flat, it's damaged goods. The dealer where I bought mine next day'd me a new battery which I installed with the hookups for the battery tender. It also solved an initial stalling problem...

Just to throw something in,it's been quit a while and alot of miles since mine has stalled .A couple of times it had a slight hesitation off idle after idleing in traffic but never a stall like it did before the battery was replaced.Even when my bike was new it labored to start and I had to tend the battery often.I have not had a slow to start(laboring) or stall problem since.Max remember how many batterys were replaced back in the late 90s.And the paper work.And GMs test procedure.And it only paid .04.


Elrod on the V-Rod

[QUOTE=Max]ElrodontheV-Rod I truthfully haven't heard of the fuel flange fixing anything more then the at speed drivability issue around 5,000 rpm. Your dealer is correct that a poor battery can cause a stalling condition on any electronic ignition system that uses a PCM. If system voltage drops below 8.6 volts for just a second then the system simply shuts down. It is typical to see bad battery's test in the 10 volt range if they have a cell problem so with lights and any other accessories running it is not hard with a bad battery to surge the system low for a second.

I will go one step further on the idle issue with the fuel flange. I did an injector cleaning on my bike about a month ago and found that the bike would idle fine with the pressure as low as 30psi on my charge cylinder. Normal pressure for the system is 55-62psi.

Max[/QUOTE;; I just got bike back from dealer,they did the recall on it .It now runs fine,as opposed to running like crap at any R.P.M. after it warmed up.Harley said I was about to be walking as the return was about to fall off' it also had the engine light on and acording to them this was the reason.Two day turnaround very good in my case!Run great now .Have a good one Jerry

Has anyone else tried the spring thing? and did it work for them?
Curious, as i have not had the time to do it myself yet.

We just got to take our V-Rods out last week and yesterday. We did ride 62 miles the first time and 105 miles the second ride. We both have had no stalling problems ( knock on wood ) on these rides. This is the first time we rode the bikes without them stalling out. We had the fuel flange done and they did install the stainless throttle and idle cables.
Doug