Good News Bad news today!Just got back from the Chassis dyno.Good New still in one piece.:notworthy Bad New Destroyed a set of Plugs on The Dyno.They look pretty wild when All the Porcelain is GONE!:eek:I need the Name and Number of the Colder Plugs that Mark found.Also Race Gas does not Stay fresh Long! :mad: My Gas went Bad and Caused some Serious Detonation!:yak: The Filters Made 2 extra rwhp in the Mid Range but Lost it Up top.So For the Street They Work Great.I won't get in to Numbers Because a Few on The Board are Talking $hit so I will not be Talking Numbers are Times.It's Kinda Sad that A few Jealous Haters can Ruin it for the Rest but Thats Life!:fahr38

Kaz,
DCPR9E is the NGK colder plug. Damn, I just hate those jealous haters! LOL.



John

Me Too!
Thanks..........;)

Kaz,

You'll be in some rich company with that plug, here's a cross reference of fitments:

NGK - DCPR9E
Automotive Fitment:
Vehicle Displacement Engine VIN
FERRARI 456 GT (1998) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456 GT (1997) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456 GT (1995) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456 GTA (1998) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456 GTA (1997) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456GT (1996) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456M (2001) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456M (2000) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456M (1999) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456M GT (2002) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 456M GTA (2002) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 512TR (1995) 4.9 H12
FERRARI 512TR (1994) 4.9 H12
FERRARI 512TR (1993) 4.9 H12
FERRARI 512TR (1992) 4.9 H12
FERRARI 550 MARANELLO (2002) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 550 MARANELLO (2001) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 550 MARANELLO (2000) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 550 MARANELLO (1999) 5.5 V12
FERRARI 550 MARANELLO BARCHETTA PININFARINA (2002) 5.5 V12

Other Motive Fitment:
Category Make Motor Model
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters APRILIA ETV 1000 Capo Nordo (2003-2002) 1000
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters APRILIA RST Futura (2003-2001) 1000
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters APRILIA RSV Mille (2003-2000) 1000
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters APRILIA RSV Mille R (2003-2000) 1000
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters APRILIA SL 1000 Falco (2003-2000) 1000
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI 748 Superbike (2001-1998) 748
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI 916 (1998-1995) 916
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI 916 Biposto (1998) 916
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI 996 (2001-1999) 996
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI 998 (2003-2002) 999
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI 999 (2003) 999
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI Monster S4 (2003-2001) 916
Motorcycles, Minibikes, Mopeds, Scooters DUCATI Sport Touring 4 (2002-1999) 916

How many steps colder are they?:cool:

Kaz,
DCPR8E is standard and DCPR9E is ONE step colder.


John

Kaz,

Here's another option, NGK Racing Plug # R2525-9

http://www.ngk.com/productImages/1/NGK76B.jpg

Go to this site http://www.ngk.com/default.asp and select the Advanced Tuners ....... Icon in the lower right.

Once you get there use these numbers to find all the plugs they make:

Thread Size = 12mm
Seat = Gasket
Reach = 19mm
Hex = 5/8"
Terminal Type = All
Resistor = Yes
Gap = All
Heat Range = 8 (stock) 9 (one step colder) 10 (colder still).....

Mark

Originally posted by Super Kaz
The Filters Made 2 extra rwhp in the Mid Range but Lost it Up top.So For the Street They Work Great.I won't get in to Numbers Because a Few on The Board are Talking $hit so I will not be Talking Numbers are Times.It's Kinda Sad that A few Jealous Haters can Ruin it for the Rest but Thats Life!:fahr38
When your on the street you have air moving around the filters,On the dyno there's not an adiquit(spelling) amount of air moving around the filters.What kind of a loss are we talking about:confused: That was with no n2o was it?So are you ditching the set/up?Try the extreme version of the filters.;)

You gonna hit the track Saturday?

Vinny,
If you saw this Dyno Room!:eek: It has 3 Super High Power Electric Fans That he can Slide up and down on Poles so he can direct it and I had it right on the Skin!It's Not a Typical Dyno Fan setup!:diablo:

I see.So are you ditching the filter set/up?

Kaz... what fuel are you running? If it came from an unopened container it should not have deteriorated.

Octane evapurates in the tank though - if it was sitting awhile that could be a problem - Kaz - you are getting too secretive here. You can't be putting those teasers out without sharing the rest of the story... I hope that your engine survived the detonations - that does not sound good. You are pushing the limits more than anyone that I know of.... your willingness to share your experiences (success and failure) is really valuable to the community...so I hope that you will open up.... I am still waiting for you to outline your current program just to here were you are heading with it. - I am also interested in discussing your gearing setup.... it seems really low for the speed and HP that you are pushing - and I am finally toying with taking your advise on bigger gearing. Weren't you prepping for some runs at the track soon?
Kevin

Kevin,
Yes I'm going this Saturday if everything works out.It's getting the slick Mounted and they should be delivering me my Bike Today.Kim it was VP C-23 fuel left in a 5 gallon Plastic Race Jug from Last season.Maybe 3 months old,but defiantly Stale!:( Vinny I will bring the filters with me to the track and do a Baseline with them.I'm Running a Very Dangerous Tune Up"on the Ragged Edge" so I might need them to keep it from going a little Lean.I have Not had this Good Air conditions and it really changes my tune up.I need to find at least 1 step hopefully 2 steps Colder Plugs!Oh I pray she stays together.I will Not Make any predictions or say anything other then this is the Limit of what my Crazy A$$ will try on this Motor!My Tuner said when ever Your Doubling Horse Power with Nitrous you are on the edge!:eek: Wish me Luck this Saturday!:cool:

Good luck Saturday. Yep... once the seal on the can is broken, the clock starts ticking on that stuff. Even on a weekend-to-weekend basis (or so my fuel-dealing friends tell me).

KAz - good luck and stay safe - this outer limit thing scares me a bit for you. HAve you thought about a progressive controller for that setup - gradual build of power may be more manageable - or even a two stage. Good luck and whatever your time be sure to stay safe and keep the engine and yourself in one piece....
Kevin

Do you put the has can on wood or just on the concrete?Put it on wood.It stays stable longer,not much but it does.

I Store my Racing Fuels and Stuff in my 30ft.Race Car Trailer.It's Parked on my full concret 110ft. by 20ft. pad.:cool: I also have a extra 16x14 garage out there for storage and stuff.:sinister: It's one of the main reasons I live in this house is my RV Parking.

good luck and be safe.

Go get the 9's Kaz!

Kaz,
best of luck, and stay in one piece for us. As for being secretive, to be honest, I dont think I will ever have the budget to copy your setup, so no threat from me ;) but, racers always hold something back, and I can respect that. I am really curious to know what this motor is capable of though. Keep us posted, and go get em.
Greg

Reading between the lines, Kaz stated he's making 244 RWHP! 9"s? 8's at the very minimum!


John

Are you heading to the track tommorrow?

YES I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hyper:

Good luck bro. :diablo: did you ever get colder plugs?
Get your camera gut out there to take pics of breaking into the nines :icon_mrgr

When you said that you gained in the mid.but lost up top.did it go lean or did it richen it up?
was there any torque gains?

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0903/aktion/action-smiley-083.gif

Good Luck!

Thanks,
could not get TQ but at around 5k-7k it had a dip with out them but made it up from 9k-11k! :teu26

Good luck tomorrow Kaz, let us know how the machine runs!!
:cheers:

I'm going to get out there one of these days Kaz..... good luck!

Kevin,
Yes I'm going this Saturday if everything works out.It's getting the slick Mounted and they should be delivering me my Bike Today. Wish me Luck this Saturday!:cool:


OK Kaz,

Did you get to the track on Saturday. If so WHAT'S UP :diablo:

I wanted to post when I knew for sure but here goes.1st pass new setup in Killer"Best Ever "AIR! :icon_mrgr I do a really good "little extra" Burn out and it's time to Rock!I Stage ,Launch,and the Bit(h Hooks like Never Before.I've done wheelies at the track"Duc Pics at the drags"but this was the V-rod and my front wheel is Really High off the Ground"It shouldn't be"I get out of it and she come back down.I nail it again and Straight Back up it goes! :eek: I get out of it one more time"Kids do not try this at Home"front end come down.Now I'm really Close to the Wall.I get her pointed straight and gas it to a 11.035@132.
That was a Low 9 second pass!Not this is early 8 AM track pretty open now.Go back check plugs"the were a little lean" spent 1hr straightening my wheelie bars "had a stripped bolt" took 20 minutes to get off!Got it all set more Nitrous"Oh I almost forgot my Nitrogen Tank for filling my shifter leaked out"More Air for the shifter etc.Take of it run like it dropped a cylinder.It did rear Plug Tip and Ceramic GONE!Put in new Plugs change my NOS Jets 2 sized smaller on the Nitrous side.It runs a lazy 10.60@117.I checked the Plugs and it still looked lean.Now by this Time there are over 500 car from all over the country "only track open for testing"it takes 2 hrs in staging lanes waiting to go on this last pass.I say this is it .It pops and sputters down the track what a WASTE! :mad: A Mechanic Friend of mine is coming by with his compression checker"Leak down test" to see if it's hurt to Bad .I will post more when I know.It was the Most Insane Wheelie I ever did to Bad No Camera Guy! :1:

Damn :( Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Glad to see you stayed off the wall. :) I was really hoping that yesterday would be the day for your 9's. I hope you did not hurt her. Now tell us, if you have catastrophic engine failure will you continue your quest with a new engine. Keep us posted.

Kaz,
Sorry it didn't go good for you. I know you'll keep trying and get it right!!! Hey, I've got a spare set of wings you can use. Strap them on the rear of the bike and really get some air! :)

Bummer Kaz,
Perhaps it's time for a ZX-12R or a 'Busa or a GSXR1000? All of which run 9's right out of the box. Sure would be allot cheaper! :)



John

Yes it would my friend,yes it would! :1:

You have squeezed out all that the 69 CI has to give. Get the 80 CI and see what it can do!

Poor Kaz!

Sorry to hear the bad news.Don't worry you will be there soon. :thumb:
I think something of a higher force is telling you,that you need to get that BB going.aka secret weapon :diablo:
Bummer

Had my buddy come by to do leak down buddy he did not have the special 12mm socket,adapter,gage.That HD shows in the Book.Any one check theirs and if so how and with what? :confused:

You can make a tool by breaking apart a spark plug and tapping it to the desired size.

:ithappen:. And it can happen again. So what? You know that! That's racing and when you get to such extreme hp numbers things will go wrong until you get it fixed and get there. :angeldev:

Damn:banghead: ! Very sorry to "hear" it though! :sad:

However! No camera? :spank:No, no, more like :chair: .

Keep it up my man! :cool:

I'm like trying to get a +vibe to Vegas. Hope you get it figured and BAM! 8sec pass.

I've done the Busa's, GSXR's, R1's many times. I really love and enjoy these bikes and all but still, any freaky snot nosed kid wet behind the ears can get any of the ones I've had. Never to the level of specialty equipment on them. You need a trained eye then you could tell these (mine) were very special indeed. All in all it was just another gixxer or another Yamaha to be sold for 10k. They become almost disposable once you get a real job, thus the freestyling stupidity I like was easy. Dropitfixit. Dropitfixit. Dropitfixit. Dropitfixit. After a while it bores you and they're all over the place, you become nonspecial or whatever the hell. THEN you want a real motorcycle that exites you and at the same time can be made unique just like everyone's here. You know what? If you're good you can race some of us squids on the street. I find it more difficult for just anyone to go get a busa and do 9's. These bikes are much more capable than most owners can handle. I find the V-Rod very easy to go fast in a straight line, not scary at all. It is scary shit for most to just go ahead and give hell to a gixxer out of the hole. The V-Rod is a piece of cake, very comfy, long motorcycle.

I "say" this because I agree with what John says. I am not really inclined to drag race any motorcycle except for fun on the street or to just test the thing at the track. No offense to anyone's motorcycle here but to be honest and I truly believe this. Of all the bikes here I'd have to say Kaz's really is the most special MF'g out of my mind not mention unique awesome bike I "see" here. :2cents:

Except for my V-Rod of course. I'll kick his ass anyday on my neighbor's Malafufri scoot!

Since he's kind of a friend and particularly because he's HERE I'd like to see those damn 8sec broken into just because he wants to.

PS That's the most I've ever seen you write Kaz. But I beat you in this post.;)

:cheers: I wish I Had a camera or video guy there because it was Huge.Now I need a new set of much stronger wheelie bars.The Pingels I have are TOASTED! :tmbsdow: RMDBILLET can Shannon do something like that?If I send him my old set he just copy a stronger set?I NEED A PREETY STRONG BUT LIGHT BAR IN CHROME OR POLISHED! :thumb:

Ouch Kaz, hope everything is a easy fix...

Kaz,
There are wheelie bars (http://www.pingelonline.com/what's_new.htm#V-ROD%20WHEELIE%20BAR) made for these bikes no one can wheelie :rolleyes: now. They are made of 7/8" 4130.

http://www.pingelonline.com/images/Wheelie%20Bars/VROD_large.jpg



John

John,
Those are the Pingels I have.Bent them like Nothin! :hmm: I think a Thick walled Aluminum set in Bigger Diameter is in my Future.Any Help on compression checker? :cool:

Well Kaz, At least you were doing something that you love, and as a bonus.............you are in one piece! Your "CRAZY" Dude.....................haha

John,
Those are the Pingels I have.Bent them like Nothin! :hmm: I think a Thick walled Aluminum set in Bigger Diameter is in my Future.Any Help on compression checker? :cool:


I swear you stated yours were custom made by TurboTec. :hmm:


John

Kaz, :diablo:
What are you gonna do when you get your fire-breathing Big-Bore :cool: rolling?You need to invest in either a progressive controller or 2 stage the nitrous. :D like Kspz3 posted.You are giving it to much at once,need to ease it in.

Let's see some pics of those wheelie bars :D

Whats wrong with a 90 degree Vertical Power Curve? :twisted:

Whats wrong with a 90 degree Vertical Power Curve?

nothing as long as you can keep it together and keep it on the track... :D
i have a wielder in my garage, i could make you some wheelie bars out of angle iron, it would be strong...but it would be ugly as hell.....lol

horsepowerjunkie what kind of horse and torque are you making

180rwhp+ and 160rwtq+ on my conservative tune.I had it set on KILL,thats 3 steps more ^ this last time out!The rear cyclinder is showing pretty drastic compression lost .We will do a Valve check next to se if maybe I smoked one. :spank:

Kaz,

ouch, sorry to hear that the engine is giving you some problems. I am not much help out here in the middle of the Pacific with the motor issues, as you know that is a hands on examination and you are out on the edge doing what you are doing.

But, I can advise that if you look into Funny Car type wheelie bars, you'll find an answer to what you need. Rigid wheelie bars that have no give will torque out of shape easily, so some give is needed to do it right. if no set up can be found, might a monoshock system, from like a dirt bike, take up the pressure when the bike climbs.The weight issue could come into play with this, but there would be give that the bike definitely needs.

The Funny Car type wheelie bars could possibly be used as a mono system also, as the funny cars put out gargantuon HP. You might end up having to manufacture something to "fit" the need of the V-Rod though, or contact one of the manufacturers to see if they have something up their sleeve.

The previous idea of using an old sparkplug for a leak down tester is a good idea, get the right fittings, guage and have it made. And that sounds like stuff we did in the 60's, making our own tools to get the job done. it sucks, but what are you going to do?

Wish I lived in Vegas, as I'd want to be in it with you. Then again, I might be a pain in the a$$ and asked to leave at about the 3rd or 4th joke.

As a thought, and something I had seen elsewhere on another HD forum, the forum got together to aid the forum race team at their endeavour to go the fastest on a Sportster at Maxton I believe it was. Folks would aid the team, and they pulled off a 169 MPH 2 way pass to set the record. The motor they used was a Zippers 123" 169HP (Zippers numbers for their stock 123" motor, and this set up was selling at 19K the last time I checked) Sportster motor stuffed with Andrews gears. One forum member actually donated the motor for the record setting event. He got his motor back in one piece, and I believe he runs the monster on the street. I also understood they did soeem other tricks to the motor as well, and the forum shared in the tricks that made it all work.

Members thoughts?

Here is a site for a company that manufactures wheelie bars for cars. Maybe they can help:

http://store.summitracing.com/product.asp?d=4&s=287&p=2406&searchtype=ecat

Rich,
Thats the Coolest Idea!I would Love to have some knowledgeable help with me at the track.My PIT CREW is hit or miss on who can come help.I do everything and thats not easy.I always bring a pit bike so I have had my camera guy come out before.We could have someone taking pictures and really get into it!I know I can't do it alone,but with a little Help I could be Dangerous! :sinister: The exposer the V-rod is getting and my Personal Source has met a few of the Top Owners,Builders,ex-crew chief in NASCAR that are showing Very Good Interest in their Racing Program! :hyper: Granted not in the sameway"Forced induction" I have made more power with a Bone Stock"cylinders,heads,cams,etc."and No real experience with this Brand New Motorcycle then the works factory backed guy's.Granted she's pretty Beat Up right now ,but thats how you learn.Now if I had some help with tunning,building,buying parts"Sponsorship" I could be doing what Any of the "Factory"Guy's are! ;)

Kaz:
What did you do about the Wheelie Bars?

They are at MICAR Fabrication being Updated for Severe Duty then I'm having them Chromed! ;) :kaz:

The previous idea of using an old sparkplug for a leak down tester is a good idea, get the right fittings, guage and have it made. And that sounds like stuff we did in the 60's, making our own tools to get the job done. it sucks, but what are you going to do?


That would be my John... the consummate crew chief. He never ceases to amaze me with what he comes up with. Sponsorships are very helpful but having someone with a real understanding of how things work and why - and the ability to implement, improvise and create 'on the fly' makes the big difference.

Kaz,

After reading some of my books again on race motors, and your want to do leakdown tests to to power output reduction rear cylinder, sounds like possible bent valve or cracked/fatigued valve spring. BTW, was a regular compression check made yet? What was the varience between F & R cylinders if so.

Rings would be the second candidate, but you made no mention of smoke. Obviously, if the oil ring was bad, you'd get a ton. With a cracked compression ring, the loss of power would occur too, but, I believe not to the level you've experienced.

been wrong before, but I suspect its in the valve/springs. You may have even cracked a valve spring, if you find nothing else, and as I recall magna-fluxing the springs is the only way to find out about cracks.

Is your rev limiter raised over factory setting, and if so, how much? With stock valve springs, their ability to keep the valves from bouncing against the seat rapidly diminish, and with that they get hammered pretty hard. When you wheelied, you indicated you chopped the throttle, and what i am wondering in the brief loss of contact with the track, did the motor go into the red zone for too long causing valve float. Then, when the bike made contact, nailing the throttle again, would cause the tire to break free and do what it did previous, climb as well as break free from the track in excessive wheel spin, allowing the motor to go back into the red zone. Rev limiters are a love-hate relationship, but they do what they are supposed to do, and that is to keep the motor in a sane operating zone. I know it is tough to keep an eye on the tach when so much is going on, specifically when you are at a 10 O'clock position, your thinking control, and I gotta get this back down to the ground.

That milisecond of loss of control is when bad stuff to the motor happens, and if you are not of presense of mind because of another issue at hand, the result is motor damage. How does one practice for that? That is the million dollar answer all racers are trying to find when they live these events.

Does the stock system allow for re-read of runs, IE, can you download what occured during the event onto a laptop to read the results on a printout of what the motor did? I doubt it, as this stuff is what the top fuel guys are doing. Costly, but well worth the investment. Can it be modded to a bike? I don't know. Whats Vance & Hines doing? Do they have a set up like this for their v-twin one of a kind morphed supposed to be v-rod?

I would say it is time to research heavier springs. One company comes to mind, and that is Zippers, as they can help and have excellent tech support wether by phone or on-line. they probablly are aware of these issues, and can advise what the next step would be to keep the upper end from failure, if that is what the problem is.

The wheelie bars, is the Pingel system a rigid system, no give anywhere? Something has to give, and without anything to allow for that, what will give next? The company link posted earlier have a feature on their wheelie bars that the wheel assmebly is pre-loaded, and i have spent no time to see if the Pingel system is that type. Is it? If so, how far is the travel and what is the rate-load for the assembly?

The commute from Honolulu is too long for trips every weekend, as much as I'd love to do it. I have been bugging the wife to go there, and she wonders why. I am not big on gambling, but love good food, the eye candy, and the insanity that Vegas offers. And yes, would like to make the tracks there to see what is up.

Aside from myself, I think there are members that might be of help.

Max, any thoughts on a Forum backed race machine? This is not meant to corner you or the forum into something, but, if you consider the membership, the resources for doing something with the V-Rod on a track scene, and then with the aid of suppliers once they find out about a project bike, who knows.

Maybe do a poll to see what everyone thinks? if something like that occurs, the Forum members will get benis as what comes out of it would be the same level of what goes in.

Hang in there Kaz, I personally know what you are going through, as the time, money and frustration level are and always & will be a constant.

Rich,
I really Love the Team Idea.Have members from all over the world it really could get "US"some great exposer for the Forum and the Machine we so Obsessively Love! ;) We have some Very Sharp Minds on this Forum and could Have a Team Manager,Crew Chief,Photographer,Public Relation specialist,Etc,Etc!I'm willing to Donate My Self, Bike,Truck,and Trailer to the Cause!

Getting Back to my Bike .We"my Tech" is going to Check the Valves as you mentioned.No smoke so Rings?Piston,No Noise?It's the rear being down almost 50% the front was on the High side of the specs! :hmm: My wheelie bars are 4130 my Fabricator says is Perfect it just needs more support Braces.I asked about an Aluminum Set and he said this is Best.They Flex though and are Very Light Weight.Not made for such a Heavy BIKE as mine that really Hooks Well! :diablo: We will Brace them up and Chrome them for Strength!!! ;) I just want to Race and Go Faster Every Time I go out!Thats my goal constant improvement. :kaz:

Kaz,

One other slim chance is you mentioned that the plug ceramic was gone, and there is a chance that maybe the coil could be an issue. No where to fire, what would happen? Would the electronic side of the house shut down on the cylinder, or, it is working but at less capacity after the plug change, IE not enough to burn the mixture properly.

Was thinking that there is a chance a hole burned into the piston, but it sounds like you still have compression.

Still might be a chance to get out on the cheap if it is the coil. If you have electronic test equipment and th espec for the coil, I would think about starting there first.

Wheres MAX?

KAz,

The wheelie bar issue, if they go south again, a pre-load spring/shock system is the next step. Hope what you have in manufacture makes it.

Me Too! ;)