I have been lucky enough to get loads of riding in the last two weekends and my bike is ready for its 1000 mile service.. :moped:

Called up the dealer to book it in today and they asked me if I wanted synthetic oil..
I thought that the standard oil for the revolution engine was to use synthetic.. Is this not the case?

Main reason is that the 1000 mile service is free but if you want synthetic oil its an extra £20 (+- $40) and if they are supposed to put in synthetic anyway then I shouldn't have to pay for it.. :bat

It's free BUT......

I paid the extra for the synth stuff, it does hurt, but is typical :spank:

Oooh, i'll see if they offer it me...im onny at 250 mile tho soooo it'll be another 2 weeks i guess......I would like to know tho, why would one choose the synthetic oil and pay £20 or so over the standard oil?? what kinda benifits might we expect??

Well the synthetic oil will offer better protection for the engine than dino oils since it has better lubricating qualities etc.. I just thought that synthetic was the standard oil in the Revolution engine and so should be the one the put in during a service anyway..

Well the synthetic oil will offer better protection for the engine than dino oils since it has better lubricating qualities etc.. I just thought that synthetic was the standard oil in the Revolution engine and so should be the one the put in during a service anyway..

Synth is great, however most engine builders & tuners would reccomend fully running in the bike before switching.
Synthetic oils are so good that they can inhibit the bedding in of parts such as rings & cause them to glaze the bores.
Might be worth waiting a while. :2cents:

african paul,
I rode it normally for the first 500 miles ("normally" as in how I will usually ride not following the break in procedure specifically) and then pretty hard for the next 500 miles leading up to the 1000 mark which I am now at..

Are you saying that its not broken in enough after 1000 miles and that you would run it longer on dino oil?

african paul,
I rode it normally for the first 500 miles ("normally" as in how I will usually ride not following the break in procedure specifically) and then pretty hard for the next 500 miles leading up to the 1000 mark which I am now at..

Are you saying that its not broken in enough after 1000 miles and that you would run it longer on dino oil?

A. Graham Bell (UK'S most respected performance/technical author) states in his work 'Modern Engine Tuning' that he believes there is 'definite merit' in running in for 10,000km on mineral oil before switching to synth.
My bike has 12,000 hard miles on the clock & the bores still look like they were honed yesterday, the full crosshatching is still clearly visible.
He goes on to explain why in detail & covers all the pro's & con's of various types & brands of lubricant.
If you haven't read this guy then it's worth taking the time, his work is highly technical yet easily accessible to the average biker. Amazon has all his books.

The majority of tech writers agree with this thinking although as always there is a counter argument.

Personally I rate his opinion over all others. :notworth:

I have read his "Four-stroke Performance Tuning" book in the late 90s, didn't know he had a new one out..
The change to synth is always one for debate I suspect since everyone has an opinion but A. Graham Bell's is definitely an opinion I would respect..
Maybe I will hold off on the Synth till the 5k mile service.. Probably best to do some research on the internet to try and get more information on it..

I have read his "Four-stroke Performance Tuning" book in the late 90s, didn't know he had a new one out..
The change to synth is always one for debate I suspect since everyone has an opinion but A. Graham Bell's is definitely an opinion I would respect..
Maybe I will hold off on the Synth till the 5k mile service.. Probably best to do some research on the internet to try and get more information on it..

Let us know if you find anything definitive. :thumb:

Funny he wants $40 to "upgrade" the oil, I can buy Amsoil synthetic, 5 quarts, for about $33.

My dealer hits me for about $40 for the Syn "upgrade".

Actually, the dealer deducts the cost of regular oil, so the Net is $24.57. 22.5 K service cost at my dealer is $94.57 + Syn difference.

at 5000 I've switched to Amsoil, but really can't tell much difference from the last oil change?!? I'm committed to Amsoil, as I bought a case of it, but dang... my motor ran swell with dino oil... is it possible that I cannot feel or hear a change, but that my motor is in fact 'getting along' a little bit better?

I planned to run synthetic at the 1000 mile mark but may decide to go one more oil change before changing over (after reading the experts here).

I generally run synthetic in all my motors but feel it is less critical than in an air cooled motor that is not run in severe service. I ran my BMW about 6K before putting in synthetic per their recommendation.

My understanding of this type of oils advantage is mainly three factors: 1) Better flow when cold, 2) less likely to breakdown in extreme heat, 3) Much lower ash content than fossil fuels (results in less engine deposits). Also it is supposed to be much slicker and is said to increase overall efficiency due to reduced friction.

Again quoting A Graham Bell, this time from 'Modern Engine Tuning, March'04 edition":

"When you begin stripping high mileage engines which have been run on synthetic, the lack of engine sludge is immediately noticable, as is the lack of varnish on the pistons. However, it is when you begin measuring the parts that you realise just how little wear there is. High wear areas like the cylinder bores & piston rings regularly show at least 30% less wear than similar engines lubricated with mineral oil. In some other areas wear is almost undetectable."

He continues at some length with the technical detail as to why this is the case, unfortunately with my typing speed we would all be too old to ride if I copied it all out!

This sounds pretty convincing to me Guy's, the author has spent a life time testing his theories in the lab under controlled conditions & proving them in competition.

Regarding running in, he says that Porsche cars (& quad cam 4 valve Corvettes) now leave the factory with synth, but they use special cylinder preparation techniques to accomodate this as evidently do many race teams.
The racers use an extremely accurate & elaborate honing process to produce a cylinder finish that requires minimal run in. Even so they run the engine in for 2-3 hours on mineral & then switch to synth. This is evidently a known technique in the race car world. :ride:

I switched to HD Syn at about 5000 miles (my first service). The bike evidently had a good run-in, (it was the dealer demo for the first 3500 miles) as it has never, in 23,000 miles, needed to have ANY oil added. I noticed right away that the cam chain noise (or whatever that swishing sound is) disappeared. It started shifting better, too. I've never looked back.

I have been trawling the internet reading all I can on the change to synth and the lowest I have seen is a recommend change at 500 miles and the highest was 8000 miles most were between 1000 and 2000 miles.. The general feeling was that about 80% or the break in is done in the first 100 - 200 miles..

So I have decided to go ahead and change to synth at my service next week which will have me at about 1200 miles..

I should have kept all the URL's to post for you guys but was moving through so many I didn't think to keep them..

From what I have read the H-D Synth is not that good in terms of wear protection relative to the preimium synth's, so I will look at a switch to a premium synth (Mobil1, Amsoil or similar) at the 5000 mile service..

I have been trawling the internet reading all I can on the change to synth and the lowest I have seen is a recommend change at 500 miles and the highest was 8000 miles most were between 1000 and 2000 miles.. The general feeling was that about 80% or the break in is done in the first 100 - 200 miles..

So I have decided to go ahead and change to synth at my service next week which will have me at about 1200 miles..

I should have kept all the URL's to post for you guys but was moving through so many I didn't think to keep them..

From what I have read the H-D Synth is not that good in terms of wear protection relative to the preimium synth's, so I will look at a switch to a premium synth (Mobil1, Amsoil or similar) at the 5000 mile service..


Mobil 1 seems to be the current favourite on the 4 wheel performance scene , the V-Twin version which they use in the States is unfortunately not on the European market but the car version is.
I intend to use this after a 500 mile run in on GTX.
I am honing the bores rougher than normal to get a quicker bed in.

Yea, my preference was to move over to Mobil1 at 5000 miles since its semi-easily available.. Most of the other recommended ones are impossible to find here..

Yea, my preference was to move over to Mobil1 at 5000 miles since its semi-easily available.. Most of the other recommended ones are impossible to find here..

I've measured the wear on the stock pistons & bores etc on HD oil & will do the same on the new parts on synth, I have no doubt that I'll be seeing them again before long!
It will be interesting material for us obsessives. :ride:

Sounds good.. ;)

Read www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm. It might be too late for your V-rod, but is good info. My dealer put in synth at 1000 miles, no extra charge. The first oil change comes with the bike. Some how I think I had to pay for it someway- nothing is free at HD dealers.